Precisely. The minute Threepio and R2 arrive at Lars' homestead, he should have said, "Hey, I once served here as a moisture farm operator for a man named Clieg Lars." Instead, it's just like, "Oh hey...I have a new master named Owen. Nice place." Threepio's either an idiot or his memory has been erased OR it's a major plot hole.
And Freeway, you're forgetting an important detail: at that point in ESB, Obi-Wan is freakin' dead, man. He's at one with the Force. Shouldn't he be able to see the big picture? Shouldn't he be more "Force-attuned" than Yoda who is still in the flesh?
YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME!?! - The immortal, chilling words of...The Shockmaster!
Originally posted by Freeway420Besides, nobody outside of the Emperor knew that Anakin Skywalker turned into Darth Vader because anyone that knew [outside of Yoda & Obi-Wan] would've been dead. I'm guessing [vaguely] that Owen & Beru didn't know the truth and told Luke what they told him simply because Obi-Wan told them that was the truth when he left Luke with them.
I'm to the point where I'm about to swear off posting in this thread altogether. The speculation about the Droids' memory has become totally pointless and silly. And I find it amazing that anything not related to the speculation (an explanation of dramatic structure for one) is totally glossed over in favor of half-memories and all-out falsehood and speculation.
Anyway, onto the topic at hand: This is all wrong.
MANY people know/knew Anakin and Vader were the same person at the start of Episode IV. Bail Organa and the royal house of Alderran. Obi-Wan. Grand Moff Tarkin. Owen and Beru (Why do you think they didn't want him hanging around Obi-Wan? What about Beru and Owen discussing how they were both afraid he'd turn out like his father?) did as well. You'll see how deep the efforts to protect the children go in Episode III and you'll see how many people knew. Owen and Beru were keeping it a secret from Luke for a number of reasons, but most importantly to protect him from Vader.
And let's all agree to just wait and see with the droids and this memory issue, okay?
Finally, Obi-Wan and Yoda KNEW about Leia and her abilities. She was their back-up plan. This FACT should not be up for debate.
Originally posted by rikidozanmy take on the whole Annie-balencing-the-force-thing...
is wrong wrong wrong.
Originally posted by rikidozanAnni balences the force by slaughtering the good guys...
Anakin brings balance to the force by killing the Emperor, thus driving the dark side -- the side that "taints" everything in life -- out forever.
Originally posted by rikidozan Didn't Tyrannus say he trained Jin, and Jin knew of the Sith plans?
No. He did NOT say Qui-Gon knew of the plans. He said "IF" Qui-Gon knew of the Sith's plans that Qui-Gon would join Dooku. Which is false anyway. It's Dooku's way of lying to get what he wants. He's trying to manipulate Obi-Wan.
Originally posted by rikidozan I think he got rejected from Jedi Heaven...
How can the force reject one of its own disciples? After all, when a Jedi dies, he becomes one with the force. Just like Darth Vader/Anakin did when he died in Episode VI.
i think Jin didn't disappear because he dabbled in the dark.
didn't Tyrannus say he trained Jin, and Jin knew of the Sith plans? I think he got rejected from Jedi Heaven...but is in limbo and that's how he saw annie and warned him...
Vader didn't disappear when he died, either. He got burned just like Qui-Gon did, and he still appeared in blue ghostly form at the end of Jedi. The only Jedi who disappeared died almost voluntarily (Obi-Wan and Yoda). Maybe they willed their bodies to dissipate through some trick of the Force. Maybe Lucas can't be bothered to explain it. Either way, Jinn and Vader both got killed by someone else, and didn't really want to die. Also, none of the Jedi in the arena in AOTC disappeared either, furthering my theory that the disappearance was more of a voluntary thing committed by the Jedi in question.
(edited by PalpatineW on 24.5.02 1700, and edited repeatedly, because not only did I quote improperly, my text magically turned green)
(edited by PalpatineW on 24.5.02 1703)
The man's talking about logic. We're talking about universal Armageddon!
As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night.
I know that the prevailing opinion is that this is revisionist history, but when Vader died in ROTJ, even though we didn't see his body disappear, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.(Wow, what a run-on sentence). He could have disappeared off camera. When Luke burns the armor, you don't see Vader's body, so no one knows if therewas one in there or not. Lucas says he disappeared, and being that these are his movies, then he disappeared.
Yoda had this theory on the Force: "..for my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it - makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. [grabs Luke's arm] You must feel the Force around you! Between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between land and ship." Episode V
Qui-Gon had this theory: "Midichlorians are a microscopic lifeform that resides within all living cells..... and we are symbionts with them... lifeforms living together to form mutual advantage. Without the midichlorians life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force." Episode I
Yoda trained all of the Jedi for a time, and instilled his theory of the Force into them. BUT, since Count Dooku was probably some kind of prick, he formed his *OWN* EVIL theory, and passed it onto Qui-Gon...which is WHY QUI-GON DIDN'T DISAPPEAR. He didn't become one with the Force because he wasn't one with the Force. Obi-Wan knew to trust his instincts (as we can see in all the movies...especially II & IV)...while Qui-Gon had his whole "stay in the moment" shi-ate. Yoda & Sam Jack are also ONE with the Force. They LISTEN to the Force, while Qui-Gon's all "STAY IN THE MOMENT!! AHHH!!" so...uh... Yes. And Anakin turned because he got trained too old. But, Anakin turned back and became one with the Force because Luke made him feel the good inside (AWW...). The End.
Well, I finally saw the movie, so I finally read this thread. Quite a bit of info and misinfo, but that's what I was hoping for. I've always loved Star Wars, but never read the books and I watched them mostly when I was younger so I never realized that there was so much detail. But I did get quite a few of my questions answered here.
Anyway these are my thoughts on the movie.
I liked it. I read a couple review snippets and it didn't look good going in, but I was very surprised.
C3PO and R2D2 put Jar Jar Binks to shame.
One thing I noticed is that these Storm Troopers seemed much more effeciant than the later models that had horrible aim.
My biggest problems with the movie was the falling in love scenes. They probably could have been cut down some and still gotten the point across.
Also the guy who played Anikan was, not poor, but not a very good actor. The role was well written for the most part, but I think it would have come across more effective with a better actor.
Yoda was cool, but there is nothing like seeing Samuel L Jackson going *Mid Evil* on someone's ass with a light saber!
Originally posted by eviljonhunt81"Jango Fett getting decapitated was cool."
That, and some of the other violence bothered me quite a bit. I enjoy hyper violence and gore much more than the next man, but the Star Wars movies are kid's films, and I think that Lucas is giving into the pressure of dorks with computers who are upset that the movies didn't grow up with them. It was overdone.
None of the dorks with computer bitched about the remakes did they? So it can't be that the movies didn't grow up with them. TPM was as violent. Darth Maul got cut in half if you remember. And if nothing else do you think Lucas is so powerful that he could make the MPAA give him a lower rating? No TPM sucked because of Jar Jar pretty much on his own.
I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
thanks for bringing up an argument that's been settled for quite some time. To end it once and for all, I think the movies are aimed at a younger audience than most of the other people here. We'll leave it at that.
And Episode one sucked for a lot more reasons that Jar Jar Binks. I have no problem with Jar Jar, as there is so much crap in that movie before one even considers him.
Sorry I was in a hurry last time and didn't read all the other posts. About the other questions I have my own opinions which may be right or wrong. 1 the reason the Jedi are losing power is that good was too powerful. Like a Micheal Moorcock good, evil, and balance type situation. If good is too powerful for too long then evil starts to make a comeback. 2 about Anakin becoming Vader. Sure Padme getting killed by Dooku or dying in childbirth or some crap like that might make sense but it is probably wrong. Leia talked about how she could barely remember her mom in ROTJ and that she was always sad. That implies Leia was around 3 when she died. Also since Anakin/Vader doesn't know about Leia's existence either he didn't know that Padme had twins or thought she was dead. To me that strongly suggests that Anakin became Vader before the kids were born. Now Bail Leia's stepdad could have remarried and pretended that was Leia's mom. Not unlikely since he pretended to be Leia's dad.
I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Just saw the movie yesterday and here are my thoughts:
Well done storywise considering the difficulty involved. I am beginning to see how the pieces fit together and how the story plays out. It seems as though the third movie will focus around the birth of Luke and Leia and how their 'living the lie' falls apart.
Destroy the Republics from within. Interesting strategy on the part of Palpatine.
Anyone else find the talk in the field a reminder of the current situation in Washington DC and Congress?
Or the way the Republic is set up to parallel the US? A useless Senate that holds meaningless debates with a small group of oligarchs that hold the real power (Trade Federation, Banking, Commerce)?
My must see moment in Part 3:
Han winning the Falcon from Lando(please let Han cheat.)
HOW COULD EVERYONE HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT THAT?????????
He could give us a wink and a nod like the bit with Greedo in Episode 1.
I almost forgot my favorite part:
It was nice to see Lucas show the character traits in Anie and Padme that carry over into Luke and Leia.
Padme has a wild streak that can get her into trouble. She also is very good at handling the responsibilities of leadership. Same as Leia (think about her personality for a bit).
Anie can be very tempermental and emotional much like Luke. Remember in Ep. 5 when he left training early to save his friends because they were in trouble? It parallels Anie trying to save his mother. His thoughts were with another (Leia) just like Anie could not stop thinking of Padme.
You guys know most if not all of these questions can be answered at starwars.com. Just click on what movie you want, then Databank, then what character/droid/place etc. you have a question about and it will give you a rundown of who they are and what thier role is in that paticular movie.
Of course, there is no info for episode 3 yet.
In addition there is an "expanded universe" link that includes the persons history as it pertains to the books.
I give most of you guys props though, your on point w/ most of the stuff and those who arnt are quickly corrected.
Just popping in with a simple solution to a question asked earlier.
How can Luke marry Mara in the books (if Anakin/all Jedi can't marry Padme/anyone in the movies)?
Anakin (and the other Jedi) were part of the "Jedi Order" a group of Jedi who was trained and maintained by the Jedi Council (run by Yoda, Mace Windu, et al.). It is very possible that it was one of the rules of the Order that you can't marry. Thus Anakin and Padme speak of Anakin's possible removal from the Order (not his possible removal as a Jedi, because there is no way to take those powers from him). He would no longer be trained, be called on for duty, or enjoy member benifits of the Jedi Order.
Luke on the other hand exists in a time where there is no Jedi Order, thus there is no rules and regulations there of. By the time he gets to marrying Mara, he's trying to make his own little Jedi Order, and can thus create his own rules for such an order. If Luke says that he can marry Mara and be part of the Jedi Order, so be it. He doesn't have to subscribe to the old system.