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Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

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#41 Posted on

    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    Lucas added several elements that are too much for kids that age.


hm... let's see here. I grew up on the lower east side of manhattan. I saw a man get shot outside of my window when I was 5. I lived in Brooklyn. I saw a man get shot outside of my house when I was 7. Seeing Fett's costume get decapitated will not make me have nightmares. Seeing Anakin's arm getting cut off will not make me have nightmares. I might not be an "average" american in that I had seen my lifetime quota of REAL violence by the time I was 10, but to every New Yorker, the rest of the country is full of slack-jawed yokels. Oddly enough, there was BLOOD involved. Now THAT made me have nightmares. But I didn't become deranged or a killer because of it. It is life, I had to accept it. THIS IS A MOVIE. You must understand that when a 4 year old goes to see Episode II, he isn't driving his car to the theatre and paying with his Amex card. His parents are most likely with him. Then, when the child complains about the violence, the parents reassure him that IT IS ONLY A MOVIE and that no one got hurt for real. Now, unless you have the mentality of a 4 year old, you should be able to understand this as well. YOU ARE NOT GOD. You do not have the power to make decisions for the rest of the world.



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#42 Posted on
I'm going with how graphic the violence was, not the amount. People getting decapitated would be an R rating for any other film besides Star Wars. Why? Because the ratings system is a joke and blah blah blah, but they tend to rate movies before they see them, and you can bet that Episode II had no more than a PG going in there. Han shooting Greedo was violent, but not as graphic.



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Jaguar
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#43 Posted on
Saw the movie this morning: Jango Fett was cool. Then I realized he didn't *do* anything. Well, he tried to kill Obi-Wan, but that's about it. Of course, I have to realize that Boba Fett didn't do anything either, so whatever. Hayden Christensen can't act. Errr, he can act. He can't act well. It made me sad. Portman just read her lines off the Teleprompter. She seemed bored. The movie pretty much bored me up until the arena scene. But it wasn't *bad* it just wasn't great. I've seen all three Star Wars movies dozens of times. I've seen Episode 1 twice, and I'll probably see Episode 2 two or three times. I hope they wrap a bunch of stuff up in the third one.

Questions I want answered:

1) Why does everybody say that Dooku is Tyrannus? Did they *EVER* call him Tyrannus in the movie?

2) Who was the Jedi guy who placed the order for the clones who supposedly died before the order was placed?

3) How is the Dark Side clouding the force? And were there no other Dark Jedi besides the Sith?

4) Why didn't Qui-Gon disappear when he died?

5) What was up with the whole Midochlorians/Virgin Birth thing for Anakin? And why has the force been out of balance?

6) Why do C3P0 and R2-D2 meet EVERYONE in these movies, and know NO ONE in the next three?

7) Dooku was a Jedi who turned. Where the hell did Darth Maul come from?

8) And most importantly: Why did George Lucas approve all those books to be official Star Wars cannon if he was just going to shit all over them with his other movies. Continuity sucks.

-Jag



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#44 Posted on
Let me clarify myself, as I don't think I'm coming across right. The problem with the violence in Episode II is the presentation of it. Anakin killing all the Tusken raiders and the decapitation of Django Fett seems forced, as if Lucas is deliberatley trying to add some "edgy" elements to win back the older crowd he lost on Episode I. I guess it worked on most of you, but this was not what I saw lacking in Episode I. I know there is violence in the first three movies, but it makes more sense, and the way it is filmed and handled is very different than these indulgent shots of Anakin killing Tusken Raiders. At the same time, I can see Lucas pulling back from having a full on adult movie, as he knows that he is making the movie with small children in mind. That only makes the violence more jarring, as it seems incredibly out of place to me. Yes, and action series is bound to have violence in it, but I don't think they handle it well at all in Episode II.



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Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

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#45 Posted on
The scenes with the Tusken Raiders and Fett seemed forced? What film were you watching? The Tusken Raiders killing makes all the sense in the world. These were the people who kidnapped DARTH VADER'S MOTHER and eventually killed her. You don't think Darth Vader would want revenge on them? What do you propose he does, have a tea party with them and say "It's okay guys, I'm actually glad you did it; she was really overbearing." Jesus... And if Fett doesn't die, how do you explain his absence in IV V and VI? He just disappeared into a vortex or something? Or maybe you would like a movie that has the word "Wars" in it's title to let everyone die of old age? I really don't understand your point, and I don't think it has anything with you being clear or not... your evidence is changing with every counterargument you come up against...

As far as your PG/R argument goes, it just might be the most absurd thing I've ever heard. To say that the decapitation of Fett's costume as well as the killing of bad guys who kidnapped and murdered a good guy's mother warrants an R rating is boarderline idiotic. Should the Lion King, a rated G movie, have been rated PG 13 because Simba's dad dies? But wait, there's actually BLOOD in Lion King... and the hyenas are ripping flesh apart as well... so that absolutely deserved an R rating. Even if you don't see the majority of flesh ripping, it is implied. Implied about as much as the blood in Episode II. Where do you draw the line?



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
I think I can help you with at least two questions, Jag.

Sidious/Palpatine calls Dooku Tyranus at the end of the movie. I think it's more of a Sith thing. Kind of like the Stonecutters, where everyone gets assigned a number. I mean, no one calls Palpatine Sidious outside of Sith circles.

As for the guy that placed the order, I think the implication is that he really didn't place it all. This whole war is being engineered by Palpy with the assistance of Dooku. It stands to reason that either Palpatine placed the order, or set up the other guy. It's a stretch, but maybe Palpatine IS that dead guy. We know he's got the Force, so maybe he faked his own death before going over to the Dark side.

As for the rest of your questions, I'm as puzzled as you are. My friends and I were discussing the droid thing after the movie ourselves. I'm going to guess that they get their memory wiped or some such in the third movie, perhaps by Obi-Wan, so he can cover up the existence of Luke and Leia, whom the droids would have to know about.



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Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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Y!:
#47 Posted on
A Star Wars Geek says:

LONGEST SPOILERS AND THEORIES EVER. This is from my Geekdom review. You can reach Geekdom by clicking on my header.

Or, CLICK HERE for the whole version.

the best Star Wars movies in my opinion, listed in order are:5,2,4,3,1. NOW WHAT I WILL SAY WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS.

LEAVE NOW IF YOU DO NOT WANT SURPRISES RUINED

I MEAN IT, YOU MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND MY RATING

GO SEE THIS MOVIE IF YOU HAVE NOT BEFORE READING FURTHER

Theories:Obviously from the looks Yoda is giving Palpetine he can probably sense the dark side in him. Yoda realizes that the number of good Jedi and evil Sith is so unbalanced that the only true way to bring balance to the force is to wipe out the Jedi. Which anakin will do.

Windu admits the force is no longer showing a clear picture to the Jedi. Conservation of energy. Two sides of the force, each has it's own amount of power. Like a Mana pool, for the magic dorks. Obviously at this point there are a ridiculous number of Jedi drawing from the pool of good and only two Sith drwing from the bad.

Yoda CAN see the future and knows what is to come. He heard Qui Gon begging Anakin not to kill the Tuskins, he heard Vader's breathing, Yoda knows what is coming. Survival of the fittest, he's gonna leave the Jedi to fend for themselves and only Kenobi will be left standing.

Palpetine payed off the Tuskins. When the Troopers in 4 make it look like Raiders killed Owen and Beru it was no accident. The Emperor was hoping Luke would recreate Anakin's reaction. And this is exactly what would have happened. Fortunately, Luke had no knowledge of the force yet so it didn't.

"Fear leads to anger leads to hate, hate leads to the darkside" Yoda
Fear of losing his mom, anger of losing his mom, hate of Tuskins for taking his mom, Anakin is a big pretty boy chess piece. Those nightmares? Mind tricks, while he's asleep.
Subliminal messages from Palpetine. Speaking of Palpetine, as Zahn stated in the first trilogy of the books, sacrificed his physical well being for more force power, and it is starting to show. I'll tell you this much Palpetine had a 99% foolproof plan. Know what Palpetine's flaw was? the 1% that got him killed? Not realizing he was correct about Anakin not being able to let go of his emotions. Years later Anakin'll remember he's a daddy then you and your sinister voice is going DOWN PALPETINE HA!

HEY! Lucas effectively killed off EVERY novel from the past four years.
Because in the books Luke can marry Mara.... but THAT IS AGAINST JEDI LAW! YOU'D THINK AFTER HOW THAT LOVE THING WORKED OUT FOR ANNIE BOY HIS GLOWING BLUE BUDDIES WOULD SAY SOMETHING?!

Yes Jar Jar is gone for the most part and the comedic relief is left in the hands of who do it like no one can, R2D2 and C3P0. By the way, C3P0 will get his memory banks wiped in the next movie.

Enough of my theories and thoughts, let me end talking about Episode III which I am now thoroughly looking forward to.

One thing I wanna see is Boba hanging out in the background long enough to see Mace act all friendly with Han or Han's mom and/or dad. It would be PERFECT heat for the Boba/Solo feud in the future. That shot of Boba holding Jango's helmet after Windu really got to me. As Asimov said, true reaction whether it be humorous, shocking, or amazing, is a shift in mood that is utterly sudden, unexpected, and smoothly transitioned.

Episode I was necessary why? George is gonna be a busy boy, in the next movie alone he's gotta break up the marriage, have Anakin kill Dooku, have Yoda take off, Have Obi stomp Anakin, have Anakin become Vader then have all the Jedi slaughtered (and with the amount of campagning Sam Jackson is doing you KNOW he'll die on camera, likely by Anakin's hands right before Obi criplles Annie's respiratory system), and Palpetine come out of the closet as Sideous and then declare himself Emperor. Can't wait. This ain't Empire perfect but it's better than nearly everything I've ever seen.

My prediction is that Episode III ends with a shot of youngun Luke on Tatooine and/or Jimmy Smits with Leia.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

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#48 Posted on
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    Let me clarify myself, as I don't think I'm coming across right. The problem with the violence in Episode II is the presentation of it. Anakin killing all the Tusken raiders and the decapitation of Django Fett seems forced, as if Lucas is deliberatley trying to add some "edgy" elements to win back the older crowd he lost on Episode I. I guess it worked on most of you, but this was not what I saw lacking in Episode I. I know there is violence in the first three movies, but it makes more sense, and the way it is filmed and handled is very different than these indulgent shots of Anakin killing Tusken Raiders. At the same time, I can see Lucas pulling back from having a full on adult movie, as he knows that he is making the movie with small children in mind. That only makes the violence more jarring, as it seems incredibly out of place to me. Yes, and action series is bound to have violence in it, but I don't think they handle it well at all in Episode II.


We saw Anakin kill what 3 maybe 4 of the Tusken? Luke killed more on Jaba's barge. Don't you think that Han slicing open an horse (I don't know what that thing was called) and putting luke inside it is much more "edgy" than cutting off a helmet without seeing any blood.

As for who the fiml is made for I dont want to repeat myself from another post but this movie is not made for "Small Children" 12-15 year olds at teenagers. When you say small children it makes it sound like the movie is made for 4 or 5 year olds. There is no way you can argue that it was


(edited by calvinh0560 on 20.5.02 0935)
Slestak
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Oklahoma City

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#49 Posted on

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    My friends and I were discussing the droid thing after the movie ourselves. I'm going to guess that they get their memory wiped or some such in the third movie, perhaps by Obi-Wan, so he can cover up the existence of Luke and Leia, whom the droids would have to know about.


At the beginning of Ep. 4, the Jawas wipe their memory. They know what's going on on the Blockade Runner before they climb in the escape pod and land on Tatooine.

I saw the movie on Friday and thought it was good. If they had just cut out Threepio's wisecracks during the last battle, and re-written those crappy "love" scenes, it would have been awesome.

My two cents on the whole violence issue: AOTC was not a "kid's movie". "Kid's movies" are rated G. AOTC was, like all the other SW movies, rated PG. That's "Parental Guidance". This movie was no more violent than any other SW movie. All throughout the movies, people are shot, strangled, and eaten by monsters. They have their limbs severed, crash their vehicles, get shot down in dogfights, plummet to their deaths, and have their entire home planet blown up. The violence in this movie is nothing we haven't seen before in other Star Wars movies.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

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#50 Posted on
Angry Johnny:

Nerdspeak here, but I think it will come down to a duel between Anakin and Dooku with Palpatine all, "Strike him down Anakin! Strike him down with you fear and hatred" and all that crap he said to Luke, except Anakin WILL kill Dooku and join the dark side. That way, it builds extra tension in the final battle of ROTJ.

Also, I bet the saga ends with a shot of Luke, a shot of Leia, but then the FINAL image will be...

Anakin putting on the dreaded black mask.



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#51 Posted on
I repeat: I know there is violence in the first three movies. It is all about how it is presented. Nowhere in the first three movies are we supposed to cheer acts of extreme violence, but now we have bad ass Jedis running all around, and it looks stupid. It came across as forced and a last ditch effort to win back the older crowd. It is more graphic than any we've seen before, and it is handled differently. We never had the heroes acting out of rage or killing people this way before. Han Solo was supposed to be disliked, until Lucas changed his mind and had Greedo shoot first.


I know the ratings system is a joke, but my point remains. Lion King would have been rated higher were it not a Disney Movie. These things happen all the time, yet we still have the joke of a system.





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Since: 2.1.02
From: MI

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#52 Posted on
    Originally posted by Slestak

    At the beginning of Ep. 4, the Jawas wipe their memory. They know what's going on on the Blockade Runner before they climb in the escape pod and land on Tatooine.



I just watched Episode 4 last night, and there was no evidence that the Jawas erased anything from R2 and 3PO. Plus Luke talks to them after taking them home and 3PO tells him that they have many stories and have been in a lot of adventures, but that R2 is a better story-teller then he is. Then Luke discovers Leia's message for Kenobi. Plus 3PO tells Luke that they are part of the rebellion.

So I don't think they will get their memories erased at all, but perhaps something else will happen. The droids do come into contact with Kenobi in 1, but I think that's the only missed relationship in 4. When Ben meets the droids they don't recognize each other.

Another thing: The relationship between Kenobi and Bail Organa has to develop in Episode 3 as well, since Kenobi is the one who helps hide Leia on Alderaan with Organa.

(edited by bradbice on 20.5.02 1059)
Papercuts!
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    The movie pretty much bored me up until the arena scene....I'll probably see Episode 2 two or three times.
If you were BORED WHY in GOD's NAME would you PAY MONEY TO SEE IT again? I don't follow this inane logic. Heck, I don't know why I decided, against my better judgement, to come into this thread. I KNEW there'd be people like John Hunt and you posting in here. Oh well...I'll try to be the voice of reason here...
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    1) Why does everybody say that Dooku is Tyrannus? Did they *EVER* call him Tyrannus in the movie?
Sidious and Fett BOTH called him Tyrannus. When Obi-Wan asked Jango whom he was working for, he said "A man named Tyrannus." When you are a Dark Lord of the Sith, your title is "Darth."

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    2) Who was the Jedi guy who placed the order for the clones who supposedly died before the order was placed?
Jedi Master Sifo Dyas. He died 10 or 11 years prior to Episode II. Right around the time of Episode I. Right around the time Palpatine (Darth Sidous) began plotting his rise to power. Said rise to power has involved EVERYTHING you've seen in EI and EII. One of two things occurred: Palpatine masqueraded as the dead Jedi Master so as not to raise the suspicions of the Kaminoans (the cloners) who didn't know the man had died or the Kaminons heard "Sidious" and confused it with "Sifo Dyas." Palpatine was behind placing the order for the clones without a doubt because without the clones, he couldn't take control of the galaxy.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    3) How is the Dark Side clouding the force?
There is a balance to the force. Prior to E1, it was established. The dark side UNbalances the force. Sidious grows more powerful each day, making the dark side more powerful each day. When he takes on an apprentice and trains them, it gets even more powerful. And it's also growing in that "Anakin" kid who is the most gifted force user ever.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    And were there no other Dark Jedi besides the Sith?
not for quite some time before EI. Their ways were ended. Sidious is the re-emergence of that.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    4) Why didn't Qui-Gon disappear when he died?
Good question. It'll be answered.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    5) What was up with the whole Midochlorians/Virgin Birth thing for Anakin? And why has the force been out of balance?
Star Wars is partially a mish-mash of many different forms of mythology. The virgin birth is part of mythology. As for the balance, thing, see above.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    6) Why do C3P0 and R2-D2 meet EVERYONE in these movies, and know NO ONE in the next three?
Hey, isn't there a THIRD movie coming out in three years. If I were a betting man, I'd bet it will be explained there. But I"m probably being irrational.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    7) Dooku was a Jedi who turned.
No. Dooku was a Jedi who left the order because he felt more balance could be acheived by embracing BOTH sides of the force, light and dark. He's not a "dark" Jedi, per se. That's not to say he doesn't like his newfound darkside abilities.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Where the hell did Darth Maul come from?
Sidious trained him.
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    8) And most importantly: Why did George Lucas approve all those books to be official Star Wars cannon if he was just going to shit all over them with his other movies.
what books contradicted any of the films that are out there?

Some other unrelated points:

Palpatine does not "pay off" the Tusken raiders. You can't pay off people whom place no value in money. If anything, he used the Jedi Mind trick on them as they are weak minded.

Anakin wears the black armor after a duel with Obi-Wan. Anakin loses and is knocked into an active volcano, where he's burnt basically to a torso.

The books are not canon. They have never been. if the books are canon, please show me where Mara Jade is in Episode VI. And keep in mind I love Zahn's novels.

The Jawas DO NOT wipe the droids' memory. Owen Lars tells Luke to go have them wiped shortly after they buy them.





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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#54 Posted on
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Questions I want answered:

    1) Why does everybody say that Dooku is Tyrannus? Did they *EVER* call him Tyrannus in the movie?

    2) Who was the Jedi guy who placed the order for the clones who supposedly died before the order was placed?

    3) How is the Dark Side clouding the force? And were there no other Dark Jedi besides the Sith?

    4) Why didn't Qui-Gon disappear when he died?

    5) What was up with the whole Midochlorians/Virgin Birth thing for Anakin? And why has the force been out of balance?

    6) Why do C3P0 and R2-D2 meet EVERYONE in these movies, and know NO ONE in the next three?

    7) Dooku was a Jedi who turned. Where the hell did Darth Maul come from?

    8) And most importantly: Why did George Lucas approve all those books to be official Star Wars cannon if he was just going to shit all over them with his other movies. Continuity sucks.

    -Jag



1. Yeah. Right at the end, Sidious says "Welcome, Darth Tyrannus" to Dooku as he gets out of his Solar Sailor.

2. This confuses me as well. They really need to answer this one. My theory is that Dooku killed Master Syfo-Dyus and placed the order under his identity (who the Jedi know about and is different from Darth Sidious, who they don't know about until the Obi-Wan/Dooku scene)

3. I can see how the Dark Side would be "sneaky" and hide their true form. I have no idea how the Jedi wouldn't notice it, though. Palpatine is a good manipulator in the movie.

4. Lucas says there's an explaination, but I have no idea what that is. Qui-Gonn's voice is in AOTC, so he must be in the Jedi Spirit World.

5. I don't know. I could have done without all of that. It was cool in the Original Trilogy just picturing Anakin & Obi-Wan hanging out and doing cool Jedi Stuff together without Anakin being some divine being or whatever, but I guess the storyline is that Anakin is powerful and, with great power comes great responsibility-- wait, other movie.

6. C-3P0 & R2-D2 are, essentially, the observers of this story, and they're what holds everything to be consistent in all 6. I'm pretty sure C-3P0 has his memory erased at some point, but I think R2-D2 knew everything all along in the Original Trilogy. He's a sneaky little bastard.

7. I don't really think that's relevant to the story. Maul was a warrior that Palpatine groomed, because he needed an apprentice.

8. Did Lucas ever approve all of these books to be cannon? I'd really like to know that, because I've never been able to get a straight answer on this. Was there ever a quote from the man himself? Is there a press release somewhere that I can view? I can see them approving licenses for extra cash, but as far as I can tell, they're glorified fan fic.


    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    Angry Johnny:

    Nerdspeak here, but I think it will come down to a duel between Anakin and Dooku with Palpatine all, "Strike him down Anakin! Strike him down with you fear and hatred" and all that crap he said to Luke, except Anakin WILL kill Dooku and join the dark side. That way, it builds extra tension in the final battle of ROTJ.

    Also, I bet the saga ends with a shot of Luke, a shot of Leia, but then the FINAL image will be...

    Anakin putting on the dreaded black mask.



Lucas has said on the Director's Commentary for TPM that he wants the prequel trilogy to "rhyme" with the original trilogy (like a song with two verses). This makes sense especially after AOTC which has several moments that mirror ESB ("Join me!", Slave I and an asteroid field, the last shots being similar)

Which means that Episode III will mirror Episode VI, which should be great. I'm one of the few that ranks ROTJ highly, it seems. Instead of the Empire getting crushed, we see the Republic (or the seperatists) get crushed. And, yeah, I expect a big climactic battle on Coruscant in the Empoerer's throne room between Anakin and Dooku, who cut off his arm in Episode II. Of course, after that, Obi-Wan has to confront him somehow, so there will be some differences.

I think the last shot will be of Obi-Wan holding baby Luke on Tatooine with the ghosts of the Jedi behind him (like the end of ROTJ).

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 20.5.02 1329)EDIT: Added more comments
Slestak
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Oklahoma City

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#55 Posted on

    Originally posted by Papercuts!
    The Jawas DO NOT wipe the droids' memory. Owen Lars tells Luke to go have them wiped shortly after they buy them.




OK, OK, I'm busted. That was only a theory of mine since 3PO doesn't seem to know who Leia is when the hologram appears.



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#56 Posted on
Lucas does contradict some of the novels and material out there, as I swear I read somewhere something about C-3P0 and R2-D2 having been together for thousands of years, and Bobba Fett's armour was referred to as that of an army in the Clone Wars, not some guy that was around during that time. And was the fight at the end of Episode II the Clone Wars? If so, I'd hardly call that a war. Then again, there was not a phantom or much of a menace in Episode I.



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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    Lucas does contradict some of the novels and material out there
Lucas also said "If I didn't write it, it's not canon." Alas, those hopes that the Ewoks T.V. movies, DROIDS cartoon and Ewoks cartoon are canon are all for naught.
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    Bobba Fett's armour was referred to as that of an army in the Clone Wars, not some guy that was around during that time.
Boba and Jango Fett's armor is patterned after the Mandalorian Commandos, an elite group from the planet Mandalore before Episode I
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    And was the fight at the end of Episode II the Clone Wars?
You really didn't watch the movie, did you? Yoda CLEARLY says "Begun this clone war has." That was merely the first battle of the Clone Wars.
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    Then again, there was not a phantom or much of a menace in Episode I.
Sure there was. Darth Sidious/Senator Palpatine is the Phantom Menace Episode I is subtitled for.



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Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 145 days
Last activity: 145 days
#58 Posted on
In response to Papercuts

If you were BORED WHY in GOD's NAME would you PAY MONEY TO SEE IT again? I don't follow this inane logic. Heck, I don't know why I decided, against my better judgement, to come into this thread. I KNEW there'd be people like John Hunt and you posting in here. Oh well...I'll try to be the voice of reason here...

Well, for one, I probably won't pay money. Most likely I'll just walk into it after I see Spider-Man this week. The reason I want to see it again, is because 1) I liked everything after the arena scene, and some other stuff too. 2) I want to see if I changed my mind on the overall movie after seeing it once.

Sidious and Fett BOTH called him Tyrannus. When Obi-Wan asked Jango whom he was working for, he said "A man named Tyrannus." When you are a Dark Lord of the Sith, your title is "Darth."

Fett had just said "A man called Tyrannus." And then I somehow missed that last line where Sidious called Dooku Darth Tyrannus. So I was just wondering if everybody was jumping to conclusions naming Dooku as Tyrannus. Or if a missed something, which I did.


Jedi Master Sifo Dyas. He died 10 or 11 years prior to Episode II. Right around the time of Episode I. Right around the time Palpatine (Darth Sidous) began plotting his rise to power. Said rise to power has involved EVERYTHING you've seen in EI and EII. One of two things occurred: Palpatine masqueraded as the dead Jedi Master so as not to raise the suspicions of the Kaminoans (the cloners) who didn't know the man had died or the Kaminons heard "Sidious" and confused it with "Sifo Dyas." Palpatine was behind placing the order for the clones without a doubt because without the clones, he couldn't take control of the galaxy.

There is a balance to the force. Prior to E1, it was established. The dark side UNbalances the force. Sidious grows more powerful each day, making the dark side more powerful each day. When he takes on an apprentice and trains them, it gets even more powerful. And it's also growing in that "Anakin" kid who is the most gifted force user ever.

not for quite some time before EI. Their ways were ended. Sidious is the re-emergence of that.

Good question. It'll be answered.

Star Wars is partially a mish-mash of many different forms of mythology. The virgin birth is part of mythology. As for the balance, thing, see above.

Hey, isn't there a THIRD movie coming out in three years. If I were a betting man, I'd bet it will be explained there. But I"m probably being irrational.


I guess my list was more pointing to this. Yes, I want all these damn questions to be answered in the Third pic. I'm hoping Lucas is going to remember all these nagging little details and at least make some effort into clearing things up.

No. Dooku was a Jedi who left the order because he felt more balance could be acheived by embracing BOTH sides of the force, light and dark. He's not a "dark" Jedi, per se. That's not to say he doesn't like his newfound darkside abilities.

Sidious trained him .


Okay, two parts here. So... Dooku's a tweener? Okay.... he still turned though didn't he? I mean, that's the thing... he's trying to be a good guy by being bad, and eventually he'll just become subserviant to the Dark Side. And my real question there was this: Dooku was a Jedi, and he was trained by Yoda. That explains all of his powers and mastery of the force. Are we going to get any insight into how Sidious hid himself from the Jedi and learned how to use the Dark Side. And then how he trained Maul up from scratch? I mean, I can assume that everybody knew Dooku left the Jedi order, so he had plenty of time and Palpatine had plenty of power as chancellor to train Dooku in the ways of the dark side. I just don't get how the Jedi could've missed Maul.

what books contradicted any of the films that are out there?

The books are not canon. They have never been. if the books are canon, please show me where Mara Jade is in Episode VI. And keep in mind I love Zahn's novels.


I guess I didn't know of Lucas' "If I didn't write it, it's not canon" stance. That kind of sucks. Oh well, whatever.

-Jag



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2934 days
Last activity: 2931 days
#59 Posted on
is it in the books are in one of the original movies, then that C-3PO and R2-D2 mention being together for thousands of years?

And I didn't pay attention because I missed one little line at the end of the movie? I was tempted to walk out well before the Clone War, so it's amazing I even remember that there was a battle at the end. I always thought the Clone Wars was the Republic vs. Clones, anyway.



REEEEEEEEMIX!

ELECTRIC BLOOD - LOVE and ACTION


Weekly Visitor
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 73 days
Last activity: 18 days
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52

Difficult to see, the dark side is, hmm? See the future, the Jedi cannot. (OK, I'll stop the Yoda-speak).

Why is that? Yoda mentioned to Luke in the Original Trilogy that the Dark Side isn't easy to see. If it were, then hell-- nothing bad would ever happen to anybody... ever. And then the movies would have no conflict, therefore no story.

Think of the sides of the Force as being something like this:


Good--------------------Tweener------------------Evil


By Good and Evil, I mean the Ultimate Good on one end of the Force, the Ultimate Evil on the other side of the Force.

But we must assume that if you're on one of the extreme ends, you can't see all the way to the other end. This is why Yoda can't entirely see what Sidious is up to. But we know Yoda is alive in the Original Trilogy, meaning he didn't die in the Anakin Trilogy. Therefore, we must also assume that Sidious can't fully see Yoda-- otherwise, he would have stopped at nothing to destroy him. (Judging by the way Yoda kicked ass in this movie, it's arguable if Sidious would have succeeded, but he certainly could try. [smirk]...)

Now, if you're a Tweener, you can see everything. The Ultimate Good, the Ultimate Evil. But no one can be both good and evil for very long. The Tweener status is a slippery slope. And if you slide the way of the dark side, as Yoda would say, “Forever will it dominate your destiny.”
As anyone will tell you, it's easier to corrupt a good man
than to change an evil man. Anakin, of course, ends up
turning face at the end of Return of the Jedi, but his love for his son was something he simply couldn't deny-- just like the love he felt for his mother and for his wife. Remember how Anakin killed the Tuskens who killed his mother? While the Emperor was killing Luke, Vader must have been thinking, NEVER AGAIN! I WILL NOT ALLOW MY SON TO BE KILLED WHILE I CAN STILL SAVE HIM!!!

Personally, I LOVED Episode II. It explained a lot of things in the Original Trilogy, and also in Episode I. Episode I makes a hell of a lot more sense now to me. We understand now that Darth Sidious actually turned on the Trade Federation, leaving them at the mercy of the forces of light in Episode I. That's why the battle was won so decisively. The way Anakin handled the Trade Federation Control Ship instilled a sense of over-confidence in himself. That's why Anakin believes Obi-Wan is holding him back, and that's why he's jealous of Obi-Wan. This jealousy will eventually be one of the key reasons why Anakin will turn to the Dark Side.

Anything else you care for me to explain? Much learning to do, have you. Patience, you do not have. Patience!

This movie had me marking out the whole damn time. And John Williams proved himself yet again with the soundtrack-- including the return of the Empreror's Theme, Vader's Theme and the Duel of the Fates (one of the highlights of Episode I). The only triumphant theme that didn't return was the Escape theme from Empire Strikes Back.

May the Force be with you.

(edited by ekedolphin on 20.5.02 2345)

(edited by ekedolphin on 20.5.02 2349)

(edited by ekedolphin on 20.5.02 2354)


“Over the course of history, the kiss of a woman has poisoned a lot of great minds.”

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I haven't seen anything posted on this yet, but with a ppv, Survivor and everyones favorite television family getting back together maybe no one was out seeking the truth. This was the first episode I've watched in about a year and a half.
- BigDaddyLoco, X-Files the truth is out (2002)
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