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The W - Current Events & Politics - Electronic voting machine overcompensates for Bush in OH
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Teppan-Yaki
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Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 852 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
Before I give the link, I'd like to comment on it:

*I'm not saying that this means Kerry should have won, nor does this make a big gaping wound in Bush's total in OH. However, as the article states -- if there's more than just this one machine in this one precinct in one county, we'll have a Florida all over again -- just protracted.

That said -- I'm *so* against e-voting. At least when I'm making my choice via Scantronic, it's on paper with a judge's initials on it.

With that out of the way, The AP reports that Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes.

    Originally posted by the AP
    Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites)'s 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Bush's total should have been recorded as 365.

    Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election's outcome, and there were no signs of other errors in Ohio's electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell.

    Franklin is the only Ohio county to use Danaher Controls Inc.'s ELECTronic 1242, an older-style touchscreen voting system. Danaher did not immediately return a message for comment. Sean Greene, research director with the nonpartisan Election Reform Information Project, said that while the glitch appeared minor "that could change if more of these stories start coming out."
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Since: 1.8.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.55
While I am a bit nervous about what can of worms this story might open up - there is one thing I agree with you on. E-Voting is NOT the way to go. We need a paper ballot system -

I think it is a shame that we let a few people who couldn't figure out how to vote properly cause an overreaction of this magnitude.... E-Voting is going to prove to be the cause of more election controversy than the butterfly ballot ever was.

Speaking as someone who uses a computer way too much (we all do, probably), I know all to well that technology is unreliable. There is a REASON I have every important piece of information printed somewhere. Why it is such a radical idea that maybe electronic storage isn't the most reliable method of handing something as important as a vote is beyond me.



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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.14
You will also get my "no e-voting" vote. Even if it's perfect you'll always have the suspicion there - especially when the folks who make the machines are such big GOP backers - I'm far from the only person where "just trust us" doesn't really cut it when it comes to that.



Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe.
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Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.18
E-voting is a colossally bad idea. I still have to teach my parents how to open their e-mail box....lord knows that if they showed up on Election Day having to operate a touchtone screen or something.

Is it so hard to just make paper ballots like the ones we have here in Canada? For the federal election last June, our ballots were evenly spaced out pieces of paper like so.


Sue Barnes, Liberal............................[ ]

Mike Minear, Conservative......................[ ]


Is this really so hard? Are computers and butterfly ballots really necessary?



Teppan-Yaki
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Since: 28.6.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
To answer:

No, and no.

I think the problem here is change; I'm lucky to be in a happy medium. Our Scantronic is line based, where you "connect the arrow" for your candidate or choice. Others have the "fill in the circle" ballot.

Either way, you know what you're filling out, and it's still counted electronically. Are there problems? Sure -- if an election judge doesn't know how to manually override the machine in case not all the ballot is filled out (i.e., I don't know any of the school board and don't want to vote in that section)... then there could be a problem. However, AFAIK the Scantronics aren't set up via modem. The probability of it being hacked is really, really low.

Now as for the e-machines -- it's like any server-based technology. What happens if the server crashes during Election Day? I would assume there's a contingency plan, but that reeks.
ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#6 Posted on
What's bad is that the only justification for spending the big money to go to e-voting is if it instills more confidence in the validity of the election process. If instead, it makes people less confident in the election process, what a colossal waste of money this would be, particarily to replace machines that were never shown to be defective.

Most current voting systems are simple, and work fine.



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messenoir
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Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
E-voting allows for Instant Runoff Voting (www.fairvote.org/irv/), and that's really all the justification I need for using it.
eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#8 Posted on
    Originally posted by messenoir
    E-voting allows for Instant Runoff Voting (www.fairvote.org/irv/), and that's really all the justification I need for using it.


You can have IRV without using a computer to cast ballots. In fact, doesn't New Mexico already have IRV?



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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    You can have IRV without using a computer to cast ballots. In fact, doesn't New Mexico already have IRV?
Some cities I think have it, but no staes do. Especially considering the disaster that it would create...



messenoir
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Since: 20.2.02
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
Please do tell what kind of disaster it would create, considering it has been successfully used in multiple places without ever creating a disaster.
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by messenoir
    Please do tell what kind of disaster it would create, considering it has been successfully used in multiple places without ever creating a disaster.
The Democrats have complained vociferously that Bush's presidency was illegitimate because of the elctoral college.

Imagine the outcry and claims of illegitmacy when the candidate who is nobody's first choice wins...



eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
    Originally posted by Grimis
    The Democrats have complained vociferously that Bush's presidency was illegitimate because of the elctoral college.



    No. Actually, the Democrats did very little complaining, and attempted to work with Bush right off the bat, claiming it was "in the better interest of the country," and what not. Furthermore, the complaints stem from Bush's loss in the popular vote, and his refusal to govern like he cared about this. He ran his first term like he had some overwhelming mandate, which was simply not ture. And yet, the Democrats did very little complaining aobut this, unless of course your referring to some rather minor Representatives, or something.


      Imagine the outcry and claims of illegitmacy when the candidate who is nobody's first choice wins...


    That's very unlikely to happen. Regardless, can you honestly say that our current process results in anybody voting for their "first choice?" If Bush of Kerry was your first choice in the entire country of who should be running things, well . . .

    I guess it explains a lot.

    (edited by eviljonhunt81 on 8.11.04 1029)


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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    No. Actually, the Democrats did very little complaining, and attempted to work with Bush right off the bat, claiming it was "in the better interest of the country," and what not. Furthermore, the complaints stem from Bush's loss in the popular vote, and his refusal to govern like he cared about this. He ran his first term like he had some overwhelming mandate, which was simply not ture. And yet, the Democrats did very little complaining aobut this, unless of course your referring to some rather minor Representatives, or something.
Seriously, are we living on the same planet? From day one, the Democrats in congress, ESPEICALY in the Senate acted like petulant school children trying to block the President's agenda and held on to the belief that the President was illegitmate. And are you trying to tell me that the Democratic base found Bush to be legitimate.

    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    If Bush of Kerry was your first choice in the entire country of who should be running things, well . . .

    I guess it explains a lot.
A valid point, but not germane to the question at hand.



eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Seriously, are we living on the same planet? From day one, the Democrats in congress, ESPEICALY in the Senate acted like petulant school children trying to block the President's agenda and held on to the belief that the President was illegitmate. And are you trying to tell me that the Democratic base found Bush to be legitimate.


I don't think we are living on the same planet. Here on Earth, the Senate Democrats basically rolled over, allowing for Bush's tax cuts, the Patriot Act, and the War in Iraq to pass easily. I'd say those are the 3 biggest things in the first Bush term, and having practically ZERO resistance to all three of them somehow makes the Democrats act like "petulant schoolchildren?" Shit, I'll even throw in the Medicare reform fiasco as Bush's 4th largest/most important act in the 1st term, and the results are the same. So, in conclusion, what the hell are you talking about?





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