Nobody should be saying "Fuck you" to John Kerry. Say "Fuck you" to your fellow Democrats who couldn't take the country out of the hands of the religious right. Say a fuck you to them.
"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
Originally posted by GrimisFor once, Kerry is trying to put the country first instead of himself. What is the likelihood that every provisional vote would go to Kerry? Zero.
Yes, but there was a decent chance that they'd have gotten him within 1%, and when that happens, a statewide manual recount is necessary. And perhaps that could have changed things. Perhaps not. But, I'm still naive enough to think it matters.
Oops, no need to repost what CRZ already has.
(edited by ges7184 on 3.11.04 1259) The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Originally posted by GrimisTurn out the lights. The Republican Rout of 2004 has happened, and I don't think anybody saw it coming.
I don't know why anybody's upset about this one, Grimis says things like this all the time.
I have a very strange opinion of Bush winning. I voted Kerry, and feel the world is indeed headed for trouble with four more years of Bush. I'm not sure how many more years of him we can survive. I don't know....the ramifications of the next four years might screw us up in the eyes of the international community (that is, worse than their opinion of us already IS). That's my main concern. Not only the next four years, but the years and years and years of recovering our image after it.
The strange thing, however, is that I'm a little glad we get to see what happens. A big issue in this election was the argument over Bush's ability to keep us safe. If Kerry won, we would never know if Bush was really going to cause our freedom and safety to implode. Well here you go, Bush - the ball is now in your court. Let's see if we were right or wrong...
The only way to silence people like Grimis is to show them, not tell them. Well, it's four years and counting - we'll all see how fit Bush really is to lead us. Don't say we didn't warn ya.
I think they weren't prepared for the Swift War Vets ads that turned out to be mostly bogus and Kerry's flip flopping was hammered home in June. Even in the debates, which Kerry crystalized his message perfectly, the Republicans were all over him. The major problem for Kerry was the Republicans attacked him in the summer and never let up. The Democrates started going after Bush in September and probably made it closer than it should have been. I think in the end, they ran a good campaign, but they needed to respond earlier, because people made up their minds in the summer and not in November.
Also, Edwards was not the right pick. They probably should have gone with Gephart in hindsight, it might have given them the mid-western democrate they needed. However, Gephart is about as exciting as watching paint dry. I also don't understand the values aspect everyone keeps preaching on. Perhaps Kerry should have talked more about his faith than coming up with plans in Iraqi. It just seems to me the end of the sepration of church and state happened last night. I won't shock me to see Roe vs. Wade reversed, prayer in school or at the very least school vochers.
Well, what can I say? I'd like to extend my thanks to the Democratic party (Iowa and New Hampshire in particular) for helping to choose apparently one of the few candidates who apparently doesn't know how to run a campaign. What a waste of my time this whole thing turned out to be.
Anyway, personally I wish Obama didn't exist. He's the new "Bright Shining Hope" for the Democrats, and I don't think they should have any hope. I wish the party WAS dead so we could start on something new rather than drag its rotting carcass around with us. I really feel like the Dems shouldn't ever get another vote out of me.
Gah. Another four years of Bush. Well, maybe by the end of this term he might not have a net loss of jobs? Doubtful.
Meanest, most petty and spiteful thought of the day: When they were showing interviews of soldiers in Iraq who voted for Bush I thought, "Well, they knew what Bush was about this time around and they still voted for him. I guess we can call off the protests because they obviously don't feel like coming home." Of course with my cousin's husband out there in Afghanistan I do feel bad.
Geez, the people who are the most hostile about the Kerry loss are the same people that have pointed out time and time again over the last 4 years that Bush didn't win the popular vote in 2000, and that the electoral college should be banished. You are now the people who continue to cling to hope that Kerry will turn around and snatch Ohio and win the college, despite losing the popular vote.
I don't blame Kerry for waiting - really, anyone upset that he did needs to take a step back and learn some patience. He didn't litigate, and he finally went out with some grace. You can be upset that he lost, but you should direct that anger towards fellow Democrat voters, who chose a candidate who couldn't get the job done.
At some point, enough has to be enough. This isn't a Republican rout, but I do think it is a mandate. Bush won over 50% of the popular vote, something that hasn't happened since Reagan. Republicans made gains throughout congress, and solidified their hold on the Senate.
I don't want to rub anything in. But one thing I don't want is another four years of battle over every little thing. Discussion, yes, but hatred?
Kerry is right about one thing - we need to heal here. What is it going to take to make that happen?
Lisa Emerson, the Libertarian Party candidate for State Treasurer in Missouri, discussed in this thread (The W) received 59,289 votes, approximately 2.3% of the total, to finish third. Full results for those interested may be found here (sos.mo.gov).
James Hart, the eugenics backer who won the Republican nomination for the U.S. House of Representatives for Tennessee's 8th District, discussed in this thread (The W), received 59,519 votes, approximately 26% of the total, to finish second behind Democratic incumbent John Tanner. Those interested may view the results here (wsmv.com).
I just don't think there will be a healing process. The Republicans will start bullying the Democrates around in Congress and the Democrates will be treated like nothing. The problem with the healing thing, is that neither side tried to make in-roads or outreach to the other side in any real way. Bush's administration didn't want to make concussions during his first term with a slight lead in the Congress, do you think it will happen now its basically a rubber stamp congress. The Democrates never took a real stand or tried to reach out the Republican voters who were leaning away from Bush. The Democratic Party and not Kerry blew this thing.
I also think it became personal for those who had friends and family in the war. I guess their feeling at least mine was if Kerry wins, maybe they can come home. Now, it looks like a war without end. Bush never talked about an exit strategy during the campgain and if that does scare the hell out of everybody, I don't know what does. All I know is that Bush's administration won't outreach if they know they have even the slightest margin of a lead.
See, that is the thing - Bush DID reach out during his first term. Wasn't he all buddy buddy with Kennedy all those months? Didn't he have Kennedy write some legislation? What was the "New Tone" all about, if not reaching out?
Bush DID reach out, but his hand was slapped away once he stopped simply going along with whatever the Democrats wanted.
Reaching out does not mean turning over everything to the other side. Bush, I am sure, DOES realize that not everyone agrees with him, but that doesn't mean he can do nothing he believes in. The very nature of our system says that since Bush won the election, he CAN act on his beliefs and opinions. If the country doesn't like it, they vote for someone with different beliefs the next time around. I mean, really, if Kerry had won this, how many of you would be shouting for the need for "unity," saying that Kerry needs to listen to the pro-Iraq side, and ajust his policy accordingly? I seriously doubt any of you would take that position. It would be "See? Iraq was a mistake, let's get out of there, to hell with what you think."
It is all well and good to say that Bush needs to reach out, and I think he does, for the sake of civility. But the Democrats need to realize that they are in the minority, and if they want to advance their ideas, they need to make convincing arguments.
They also need to realize that they are not going to get their way, at least for the next two years. Not because Republicans are evil bastards that don't listen to anyone, but because America voted and decided that the Republicans should have their say.
After 2000, Bush reached out, and his hand was slapped away. This was because of the election controversy, and the fact that Gore won the popular vote. I didn't like their behavior, but their position did have a bit of merit. Here, though - that attitude is baseless. If we are going to "heal," it is the Democrats who are going to have to change their behavior. America had their say, and they didn't pick your ideas. Bush has to reach out, but he doesn't really have to give an inch in policy. The sooner the Democrats realize this, the saner this country will be.
You know in the Kids get out and vote campaign they had here my 6 year old voted against Proposition #2 (Music should be played in the cafeteria) not because he didn't want music to be played in the cafeteria, but because he wasn't sure others appreciated the music.
It is a thoughtful gesture, but if everyone votes like that, who really ends up getting anything they wanted? (Isn't that the purpose of voting to see what the people actually want?)
It's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone undershorts.
Let me try to make a few rationale thoughts, as technically, I'm a registered Democrat (part of living in a 1 party town) who is really a Republican who wasn't crazy about Bush.
1) Rout is not the appropriate term. However, if the Tip O'Neill 1984 Reagan election rule is still in place, Bush won a mandate. He increased his own victory, increased the Senate to the point where he has a majority even without the renegade Northeastern Republicans, and he increased the Republican margin in the House. Since Reagan didn't have a mandate after winning 49 states because he didn't carry the House, conversely this would also be a mandate. Also, Bush had coattails, as he carried (barring recounts) at least 3 and possibly 4 Senators over the top.
2) The Democratic Party in the South is on its deathbed. Not nationally, but go south of Maryland, and there is no real Democratic Party. 5 Senate seats up for grabs that were Democratic, all apparently go Republican.
3) As a Republican, I'm begging the Democrats to trot out Dean or even Hillary in '08. At some point, the Party needs to realize that a Northeastern Democrat is screwed in terms of the electoral map. That is why I always feared Gephardt and Graham more than I did any other Democrat in the Primary. The Southern Democrats will be tough to find, but why they don't try a Midwestern or Western Democrat boggles the mind, considering the lack of success Northestern Democrats have had. And, for those expecting Edwards in '08, what exactly has he done to even be considered? Couldn't keep his Senate seat from flipping, and couldn't bring his state over to Kerry. At least Dan Quayle did get to the Vice Presidency. Edwards as a VP candidate might go down slightly above Admiral Stockdale, who at least was humorous.
4) Obama maybe in '12, probably in '16. Expecting to quick of a jump. Also, as proven yet again, Senators aren't the best candidates to run.
5) Can I be the first to start the Draft Bob Taft for V.P. in '08 movement?
I'm glad the election is over...I normally don't tread into politics but the past 24 hours that's what United States have been watching.
It was a tight race, honorable in most parts, and after watching there speeches they both seem ready to move on.
Anyways, it is in the history books now, George W. Bush is the President of the United States. John Kerry came close but we all know that only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades, atomic bomb, and teenage sex.
Honestly, I swore Kerry was going to win, I am registered democrat under 30. Probably one the few if I was ever poled that would have answered "Bush" instead of "Kerry" in that question. After all the analyzing, screaming, crying, and yelling it is over for four more years.
J.J. Dillon: "I'd rather flip burgers at McDonald's than work for Vince McMahon again." July, 3 2004 New Era Of Wrestling
For all of you who are decrying the Bush victory, remember, you are in the minority. You and those who think like you, are outnumbered in this nation. The majority of the country agrees with the President, or, at the very least, disagreed with the one who was chosen to run against this President.
If you are complaining about the percieved lack of respect for same sex marriage, remember, every state in the union who had it up for a vote, voted to not allow it.
The Senate, and the House are now Republican held. That means that your opinions and political philosophies are in the minority.
For all of you who keep complaining that "there are people who dont agree with your policies" remember, MORE people do agree. Majority rules. Please remember that.
This President had more ballots cast with his name than any President in the history of this nation. Because it wasnt a LANDSLIDE, doesnt mean you should discount that fact.
Bush has a ways to go to make us more respected on the World stage, but, the public has spoken and they think that he is the better man to do the job than his opponent was.
Originally posted by FurryHippieThe only way to silence people like Grimis is to show them, not tell them.
That's all I heard for the past two years was that Bush was finished....
It's amazing that Bush wins the popular vote in a clear mandate, we pick up ten seats in the House, pick up several Senate seats, and still the liberals here try to deligitmize the win.
As StaggerLee said, for those Bush haters:
YOU ARE OUTNUMBERED. WE ARE IN CONTROL
Remember: Clinton NEVER got a majority....
Incidentally, you guys might want to try to avoid things like gay marriage in the future, because as you saw in the various referenda, gay marriage bans won big. I'm not saying that's a good thing, and I think regular readers of this forum know where I stand. But you just can't run every liberal issue up the flagpole for every interest group and expect to win because you are in the minority (GOD that's fun to say).
Originally posted by whateverNationally: Bush 58,662,627 (51% total) Kerry 55,126,581 (48% total)
Maryland (just for you, Grimis!): Kerry 1,209,827 56% Bush 936,505 43%
Nice "rout" there, Grimis. Glad to see that the results rendered your individual vote as meaningless.
Well, not to speak for Grimis, but I think what he means is that the election overall was a rout for the Republicans, which it was. The GOP won the Presidency, picked up an additional three seats in the Senate and an additional four seats in the House, giving them a powerful majority in both houses of Congress.
Just a question. Whether it's Russia, Iraq, China, or Vietnam, why are we surprised that countries with no democratic and pluralistic conditions in their history have a hell of a time being democratic in our tradition?