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The W - Pro Wrestling - ECW 9-5-06
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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I'm always timid about making a new thread out of fear another one on the same subject will get posted just seconds earlier. But here goes:

The first match was the most ECWish of any we've seen on the show so far. RVD/Sabu vs. Test/Knox was not a great match (you can clearly watch RVD and Sabu control every aspect of the match), but it had some nice spots with props. RVD and Sabu also hit a perfectly timed springboard legdrop/Rolling Thunder combo, a move made more impressive when they later mistimed the table finisher combo. Test and Knox were glorified tackling dummies here, but Test's experience allowed him to sell like a champ, making Knox look more generic than ever. Oddly, Kelly did nothing. RVD also nailed Test square in the teeth with a flying kick. But this bout didn't do much to elevate the angle of RVD/Sabu against Heyman.

Matt Striker ran away from Sandman. You know, Striker's got a clean look that screams midcard face, but he's playing the comic heel in a gimmick not unlike The Genius or The Dean. I know I've seen him wrestle, but I can only recall that he cleanly beat Eugene, a fact that ought to bond him with Sandman.

Thorn interfered to help Stevie beat Ballz. It was a blah affair, just biding time before the interference. But Balls was using actual moves; he's always been to me half of That Duo What Make With the Chairshots. A cradle Russian neckbreaker isn't a bad idea, but he needs to get more elevation on it. And he tossed off a spinning elbow off the ropes (not the turnbuckle). Maybe his blow-off match with Thorn may be better than I expect. Oh, Joey completely lost his mind (in an embarrassing way) when Ariel gave him a lapdance.

The main event was a mess as Paul declared the handicap match a non-extreme bout. The only surprising thing here is that Show did not bleed or go through a table at the end of the show. What was truly shocking was that Hardcore Holly got some offense on Triple H. But this was countered by what looked like his mistimed run-in. Show and Hunter were obviously killing time before moving to the false finish. This does nothing to make me want Unforgiven's main event, and it's time for Paul's guards to wrestle already. I wanna know if they're the Bashams. Actually I hope they ain't. I never cared for the Bashams.

CM Punk slapped Shannon Moore and called him a poser. This is not a feud that has any legs. Raise your hand if you think Shannon can accomplish anything here. Again, CM Punk plays the tweener; berating Moore only makes the latter looks small and harmless, and Punk appears now a bully. But because Moore can go nowhere, who's gonna root for him, especially against Punk?

Still, the first match made the show.



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Since: 16.3.04
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.71
Definitely agree with Matt's thought of the first match, I was thinking during it, this is the first match since ECW has been back that reminds me of what I've seen from the DVD sets.

Tivo only recorded one hour, so I ended up missing the end of the DX/Show match, but thankfully got to see most of it on WWE/ECW.com afterwards.

Glad it's sticking around, and would just like another 30 minutes or so, an hour goes so quick.



Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06

Loved the opening bout. It may have been my personal favorite one all year. Say what you will about Test, but I think he's really upped his game since returning the new ECW brand. He & Mike Knox both sold like champs.

How much longer until Heyman's guards are finally revealed as the Basham Brothers? ...

I wonder if they're going with the Shannon Moore is a wuss-poser route ... certainly looked that way.

Another solid show ...
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Since: 9.12.01
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
It looked to me like the thrown chair at Test at the end of the match wasnt going flat when it hit him, it had kind of a spin. That's... not so good if it was what happened. RVD sure looked at test for a long time over there before getting back in the match.

Flat chair = (relatively) no problem. Knife edge chair shot to head = not so good.




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Since: 1.5.03
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
-Gained a lot of respect for Test and Knox as they took quite the ass whupping. The last half of the match just seemed to be them getting chairs thrown in their face.
-Ariel's boobs are insane.
-I guess the Thorn thing is to set up a feud with Balls, though it'd be awesome if they abducted Stevie to be one of their followers. I think this Thorn thing can go somewhere (maybe eventual feud with the UT.)
-Striker's promo was, uhh, edgy I guess. I wonder if that's the direction they're going to go with him. Make him into a bit of a fundamentalist teacher (maybe drop in a line about evolution being a myth and he'll teach us creationism.)
-The main event was whatever. It was fine.

The Punk/Moore segment was intriguing on like 80 levels though. I like how the music stops when people come into those segments, it's just a cool little touch. It's shocking that the E realizes that Moore isn't a real representative of punk and will come off as lame to anyone even remotely familiar with the genre. That's a lot more culturally aware than they usually are. You can even go into history with CM Punk to prove this. Show footage of Moore as the dancing boy band member in 3 Count, then show him as Matt Hardy's little lackey. Moore's character always seems to be a follower. He's just like any number of kids anyone who anyone who goes to local shows or is into 'scene' culture can identify with. Kids that are punk one year, mod the next and dressing like Panic at the Disco now. CM Punk who, even if you didn't know his character, exudes a sense of realism is a perfect foil for this. I'm very interested in this feud.

So, decent show.
cranlsn
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Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.78

    Originally posted by Mayhem


    I wonder if they're going with the Shannon Moore is a wuss-poser route ... certainly looked that way.

    Another solid show ...


I had a brief, horrifying, moment where it seemed like they were going to kiss each other...ugh. I don't know where they're going with the Shannon Moore bit, but I kind of feel sorry for him now. Maybe Punk takes him under his wing to help him get rid of the poser image?

Just please...don't let him talk anymore.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.57
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    it'd be awesome if they abducted Stevie to be one of their followers.


That'd be like shaking Steve Austin's hand to trick him into getting Stunnered.
Whattaburger
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Since: 18.5.04
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    CM Punk slapped Shannon Moore and called him a poser. This is not a feud that has any legs.


He called him...a poser. Is Punk in Middle School?

Oh, yea -- he just takes his crappy gimmick too seriously.



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Dahak
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Since: 12.5.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
I have the same problem as Packman. I only recorded 1 hour and missed the last 5 minutes or so. Damn you Direct TV for making me miss Hardcore Holly.
Seriously though Test impressed me. Got his ass kicked pretty good and sold like a champ. Plus taking the top of the chair instead of the flat part is pretty above and beyond.



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flairforthegold13
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Since: 1.5.03
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      CM Punk slapped Shannon Moore and called him a poser. This is not a feud that has any legs.


    He called him...a poser. Is Punk in Middle School?

    Oh, yea -- he just takes his crappy gimmick too seriously.


Not to be a Punk apologist, but the key thing is that it's NOT a gimmick with him. From everything you read and hear about Punk, the straight edge lifestly, the punk alternative lifestyle is who he is.

Now, the same is apparently true of Moore. The problem is that his gimmick and look seems like a phony trying to ape the culture to be cool. That's mainly due to who he's been portrayed. He could do that look, but it could be presented in an authentic way. However, the whole 'fight authority' intros sunk the whole thing. It ruined it's air of authenticity.
Whattaburger
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Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.10
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
      Originally posted by Whattaburger
        Originally posted by Matt Tracker
        CM Punk slapped Shannon Moore and called him a poser. This is not a feud that has any legs.


      He called him...a poser. Is Punk in Middle School?

      Oh, yea -- he just takes his crappy gimmick too seriously.


    Not to be a Punk apologist, but the key thing is that it's NOT a gimmick with him. From everything you read and hear about Punk, the straight edge lifestly, the punk alternative lifestyle is who he is.

    Now, the same is apparently true of Moore. The problem is that his gimmick and look seems like a phony trying to ape the culture to be cool. That's mainly due to who he's been portrayed. He could do that look, but it could be presented in an authentic way. However, the whole 'fight authority' intros sunk the whole thing. It ruined it's air of authenticity.


It's totally cool...I just think it's a lame comment.

Also, I think his gimmick is completely stupid, overdone and super-marky.

"Hey, I don't drink or smoke or do drugs (or whatever)! I'm awesome!" Hey, guess what, neither do I and nor do a lot of people and they don't need a stupid little label to make themselves feel better about it.

I dunno, I just don't like him. His wrestling, promos, and total style have fashioned him -- in my eyes -- as the "mark's wrestler;" i.e. -- a guy who's (actually in real life) too wrapped up and obsessed with pro wrestling and his gimmick.



It's just a message board, people. Chill out. Now, go show your internet diapproval of me! YEA!
Spank E
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Bournemouth, UK

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.31
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    "Hey, I don't drink or smoke or do drugs (or whatever)! I'm awesome!" Hey, guess what, neither do I and nor do a lot of people and they don't need a stupid little label to make themselves feel better about it.


You've obviously never been to a hardcore show. There are a lot of people who don't drink/smoke/take drugs/partake in casual sex/drink coffee/eat cheese during a full moon who feel the need to label themselves as straight-edge. Most of them are morons who beat people over the head with it. Some aren't. I get the impression from Punk himself that he doesn't, but is perfectly fine with allowing himself to be portrayed as someone who does.

CM Punk using his actual straight-edgeness as a gimmick isn't really that much different from, say, Ted Dibiase saying "Hey, I'm rich. That makes me better than you." The only differences, of course, being that Ted Dibiase isn't actually that rich and CM Punk isn't a heel.





Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Spank E
    The only differences, of course, being that Ted Dibiase isn't actually that rich and CM Punk isn't a heel.


I don't know. Maybe he's not a full-on heel, but he has a tweener attitude going. A face wouldn't slap Moore for being a poser, but he might make some disdainful remark. Think of Cena talking to Maria or Eugene. Or Rock talking to Hurricane or Goldust. It's possible ECW is expanding their polarities for face and heel to fit the late-90s "shades of gray" notion. That's a good thing. But it's still early. If someone new were to watch that segment, Punk would easily appear as a heel.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

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oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Nah, he's definitely a face. A weedy little guy telling everyone "fight the power" from behind bad KISS make-up? Slapping him is a big face move. Moore's character right now is the kind of guy Austin would Stun just for looking at him. He's a poser, which is a clever move on the part of Heyman (or whoever) to salvage the Moore experiment.



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Since: 28.6.04
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.29
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Nah, he's definitely a face. A weedy little guy telling everyone "fight the power" from behind bad KISS make-up? Slapping him is a big face move. Moore's character right now is the kind of guy Austin would Stun just for looking at him. He's a poser, which is a clever move on the part of Heyman (or whoever) to salvage the Moore experiment.

Exactly. What everyone seems to be forgetting is what a disaster the Moore character has been so far, and he hadn't even been on TV outside of vignettes prior to Tuesday evening. All live reports have indicated that crowds were crapping all over the character, and a lot of that is most likely due to it coming across as completely unorganic and lame. They had Punk react physically the way the crowd has reacted to the character verbally, which is exactly what a face would do. Sure, we can argue that it's not really a pure babyface action, but it was done to a character who's going to be a heel and - as oldschoolhero pointed out - it's not like there's no precedent for a face to do such a thing.

Also, unless I missed some gigantic overhaul in terms of how WWE does things, Punk isn't calling the shots when it comes to his character. Creative is.



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    They had Punk react physically the way the crowd has reacted to the character verbally, which is exactly what a face would do. Sure, we can argue that it's not really a pure babyface action, but it was done to a character who's going to be a heel and - as oldschoolhero pointed out - it's not like there's no precedent for a face to do such a thing.


The Austin analogy doesn't really hold water because Austin, while certainly the most popular guy at one point, wasn't a true face. He berated people all the time and threatened everyone. He was the Rattlesnake because he would strike anybody at anytime. His Don't Trust Anyone motto kept him isolated between the natural poles. Rock did the same thing; he would insult people for a cheap laugh. Made him popular, but it didn't make him a face. Often the only difference between those two and their enemies were the depths the latter would go to. Anyone looks like a face when fighting McMahon.

I don't want diverge from my main point, and that's that Punk handled the matter in an ECW style, yes, but we haven't seen enough to assume this is the face manner. I'll admit, the pure face Dreamer spanked the Kelly at the bingo hall, but she's aligned with the bad guy. She's bad by association.

Punk's popular, yes, but is he face? I don't have enough yet to say definitively because his opponents (Stevie, Justin, Anderson) have no established polarity. If ECW wants "shades of grey" booking, that's OK. I don't demand absolutes. But the booking has been so heavily focused on the title that we don't know yet where everyone else stands.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 7.9.06 0921)


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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.06
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

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    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Punk's popular, yes, but is he face? I don't have enough yet to say definitively because his opponents (Stevie, Justin, Anderson) have no established polarity. If ECW wants "shades of grey" booking, that's OK. I don't demand absolutes. But the booking has been so heavily focused on the title that we don't know yet where everyone else stands.


(ding)

I'd argue Punk's popularity is more based on the fact that he's CM Fucking Punk and, not unlike Paul Wall, has the Internet goin' nuts. Not because of anything he's done in ECW, but more because of his reputation pre-ECW. So you'd probably have to write off any face actions/reactions as coming from that, instead of his character. Besides, it's probably easier to spin the straight-edge part of it as an elitist asshole, instead of an elitist asshole who Does What's Right.

But I'm pretty sure none of that was new to you.





JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.57
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Austin, while certainly the most popular guy at one point, wasn't a true face. ... His Don't Trust Anyone motto kept him isolated between the natural poles. Rock did the same thing; he would insult people for a cheap laugh. Made him popular, but it didn't make him a face. Often the only difference between those two and their enemies were the depths the latter would go to.


You can be An Ass Hole and still be a face. Austin and Rock were always overcoming adversity, having the odds stacked against them, and getting unfairly screwed. Huge faces. Plus after the "McMahon-Helmsley Fires Mankind" angle at the end of 1999, Rock became much nicer and less of a dick. Austin was always abrasive but psychologically-speaking, there's never been a bigger babyface.



    Punk's popular, yes, but is he face? I don't have enough yet to say definitively because his opponents (Stevie, Justin, Anderson) have no established polarity.


Punk is a face because he sells for the heel and makes a comeback.
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.03
Am I the only one who thinks HHH has really stepped up his game since the whole DX reunion has come about? He actually was busting his ass against Big Show in that match.
JohnHayduke
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Nah, he's definitely a face. A weedy little guy telling everyone "fight the power" from behind bad KISS make-up? Slapping him is a big face move. Moore's character right now is the kind of guy Austin would Stun just for looking at him. He's a poser, which is a clever move on the part of Heyman (or whoever) to salvage the Moore experiment.


I'll try and address several points in this post but since I agree with your post the most I decided to quote you.

Poser is an insult that needs to be used more. Mall punk is usually used these days instead of poser though.

I thought it was always a face move to attack someone who is being disingenuous. Moore's character does not come across as sincre. Though Moore's character is not as developed (yet) does anybody remember Brother Love? Was it a face move to attack him? That's the most obvious example I can think of right now. I

I think Moore as a whining heel will be a good thing. I'm not too happy about this feud though because I don't think it can help either guy. If they have amazing matches though it may be ok.

Mark mode:

Moore is a poser. The first time I saw his character I thought "mall punk" and I wanted to fight him. If they ever put him in girl jeans and a white belt I'll buy a ticket myself to an ECW event jump the railing and beat him up.
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