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21.12.14 1458
The W - Pro Wrestling - ECW # 136 1.13.09
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cfgb
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.82
Well, I haven't seen the show because it doesn't air in Canada until late Friday night.

I guess I'm just a tad surprised that Jack Swagger capturing the big prize hasn't resulted in a thread. (Or rather, that Matt Hardy LOSING the big prize to Jack Swagger hasn't resulted in a thread.)

With Swagger's push it was inevitable, just seems a little soon. I can't comment on the match itself until it passes through customs.

DISCUSS.
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Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
Actually, it was a pretty great match, and they gave them plenty of time for it. I'll agree that Swagger is just a tad too unpolished for the belt, but the kid has a lot of potential and might just grow into the spot. I'm also not sure if the title change will hold past next week. Swagger won the match after using an exposed turnbuckle cover, so it's possible that next week Teddy Long will come out and hold up the belt, or similar.
Oliver
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Since: 20.6.02
From: Kolob

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.19
    Originally posted by cfgb
    Well, I haven't seen the show because it doesn't air in Canada until late Friday night.
If you don;t want to wait until Friday night...there's always your Internet connection; it is available on WWE's website.

    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Actually, it was a pretty great match, and they gave them plenty of time for it. I'll agree that Swagger is just a tad too unpolished for the belt, but the kid has a lot of potential and might just grow into the spot. I'm also not sure if the title change will hold past next week.
Now, I know this isn't Paul Heyman's ECW anymore...but I still keep hope that the spirit of the original is still around, deep down somewhere. Jack Swagger, if any other reason, is proof of that. If for any other reason, ECW's champions were hardly ever polished athletes. They were rough around the edges, and they were proud of it.

Tenken has a good idea concerning Teddy Long, but I kinda wish that he'd let it go...or at least give them a rematch down the road. At the Royal Rumble, perchance?



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Rudoublesedoublel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 40 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I like Swagger; I just wish that they would have delayed this until WM to make it feel "more massive" or something. They could have easily had a jealous Mark Henry interfere to repay Swagger and then let Swagger get more over by dispatching Mizark over the next couple of months (though it would have left Matt with nothing to do...).



"I'm on my time with everyone." - Kurt Cobain
Super Shane Spear
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

Since last post: 1651 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.84
Jack actually seems to have a lot of Nigel Mcguinness in him. That match last night was very well constructed, with lots of good work on Matt's left arm. Also, the turnbuckle spot was played out a lot better than usual with the camera missing (for once) the tedious untangling of the equipment. Without the use of the Twist of Fate, you also get the clean win done without demoralizing Matt. Finally, the Slammy-award winning commentary team continues to impress, with Grisham having one of the better recent 3-count calls and Striker name-checking the Slop Drop.

Not as good as Cena v HBK from the night before, but still a quality title match, and I'm looking forward to Swagger's continued maturation.

On a smaller note, they should've picked a different night for Tommy's speech, because at good as it was it was forgotten by the end of the night.

(edited by Super Shane Spear on 14.1.09 0804)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18
Doing the title switch right before the Royal Rumble could be to free up Matt Hardy for whatever the fallout is from the Guy Who's Trying To Kill Jeff. Such as Hardys vs. E&C or god forbid Matt vs. Jeff.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 6 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
I don't know - I think Matt vs. Jeff in a face/face "respect" situation could be pretty good. I'd particularly be in favor of it if it also meant Matt winning the Royal Rumble, which I admit isn't particularly likely but I'd get a real kick out of it.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 30 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.63
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    I don't know - I think Matt vs. Jeff in a face/face "respect" situation could be pretty good. I'd particularly be in favor of it if it also meant Matt winning the Royal Rumble, which I admit isn't particularly likely but I'd get a real kick out of it.

Not sure about face vs. face, they did earlier this decade and it was lame. They have both improved since then, but I still think Matt as a heel would work. Version 1.0 was awesome and was the most I ever cared about Matt. Jeff vs. Matt could be very Bret/Owen-ish, except with the older brother being jealous.




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Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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Last activity: 6 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
    Originally posted by kentish
      Originally posted by Tenken347
      I don't know - I think Matt vs. Jeff in a face/face "respect" situation could be pretty good. I'd particularly be in favor of it if it also meant Matt winning the Royal Rumble, which I admit isn't particularly likely but I'd get a real kick out of it.

    Not sure about face vs. face, they did earlier this decade and it was lame. They have both improved since then, but I still think Matt as a heel would work. Version 1.0 was awesome and was the most I ever cared about Matt. Jeff vs. Matt could be very Bret/Owen-ish, except with the older brother being jealous.


Thing is, as good a heel as Matt can be, the fans love him right now. I think it would be a mistake to make him a heel while he's still this hot as a face. Neither Matt nor Jeff are the same performers they were even three years ago - they've both improved so much in every aspect. I think they could make the face/face match work now.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    I don't know - I think Matt vs. Jeff in a face/face "respect" situation could be pretty good. I'd particularly be in favor of it if it also meant Matt winning the Royal Rumble, which I admit isn't particularly likely but I'd get a real kick out of it.


If you're Vicki, it makes sense to sic Matt against his brother for a title match with the stipulation that the winner faces Edge immediately after. Like a gauntlet. It would be relatively easy pickings for Edge.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
MUTigermask
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Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

Since last post: 534 days
Last activity: 22 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
    Originally posted by Tenken347
      Originally posted by kentish
        Originally posted by Tenken347
        I don't know - I think Matt vs. Jeff in a face/face "respect" situation could be pretty good. I'd particularly be in favor of it if it also meant Matt winning the Royal Rumble, which I admit isn't particularly likely but I'd get a real kick out of it.

      Not sure about face vs. face, they did earlier this decade and it was lame. They have both improved since then, but I still think Matt as a heel would work. Version 1.0 was awesome and was the most I ever cared about Matt. Jeff vs. Matt could be very Bret/Owen-ish, except with the older brother being jealous.


    Thing is, as good a heel as Matt can be, the fans love him right now. I think it would be a mistake to make him a heel while he's still this hot as a face. Neither Matt nor Jeff are the same performers they were even three years ago - they've both improved so much in every aspect. I think they could make the face/face match work now.


Yeah, but I think as much as the fans love Matt, they love Jeff even more. I believe he'd be able to get over as a heel turning against his brother. The v1.0 heel period he had was when I found him most entertaining. At this stage of his career I think that character could still work, just tone down the comedic heel aspect of it. Personally, I think he'll be revealed as the attacker because of jealousy. All the little shots about people only caring about him because of his brother getting to him. I wouldn't mind seeing maybe Matt v. Jeff at NWO, with Christian coming back into the angle somehow, then how about Edge v. Christian v. Matt v. Jeff TLC for the title at Mania?

Didn't catch most of the actual show before the title match because I was playing Persona 4, but the title match was pretty darn good, and I have no problem with SWAGGUH winning the title so early. It's not as if they gave him one of the big belts. I do foresee him getting a good run with the belt before dropping it to move on to Raw or SD in the next draft.



(edited by MUTigermask on 14.1.09 1248)
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
The problem I have with Matt is that he has gotten really dull in the ring. He still throws out a good match here and there. I agree that his heel work is much better than his face work, and I still like his tag team stuff, but Matt Hardy the singles star face just isn't working for me anymore.

I like the idea of throwing the belt on a new guy though, even if he is a little too new. This is what the ECW brand should be about, guys like Swagger coming up the ranks. It's too bad they didn't do this more with Elijah Burke when he was doing the new breed bit. The ECW Title holds about as much weight as the Euro Title did at it's peak, so why not play around with it a little bit.

I would have saved the title switch for a PPV though since the belt hasn't had a great showing at one in awhile.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18
The thing to me is that Matt Hardy is, at worst, legitimately one of the six most popular, truly beloved babyfaces they have*, and on top of that, has really only been a top singles star face (which has been very much a success) for less than a year, basically since April. "Matt turns on Jeff out of jealousy" might ultimately pay off as a big angle -- I'm not sure if people really want to see the two of them feud with each other, but it probably has potential -- but I think it's too early for that just yet, especially with Christian coming back in to set up Hardys/E&C main event matches.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    The thing to me is that Matt Hardy is, at worst, legitimately one of the six most popular, truly beloved babyfaces they have*


* - Rey, Jeff Hardy, HBK, Undertaker, HHH?



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18
    Originally posted by hansen9j
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      The thing to me is that Matt Hardy is, at worst, legitimately one of the six most popular, truly beloved babyfaces they have*


    * - Rey, Jeff Hardy, HBK, Undertaker, HHH?


Hm. who put that there. But yes, exactly who I was thinking. Since Cena is both passionately beloved and passionately behated.

On second thinking, I don't know if Triple H is "beloved," per se, but he's definitely popular, respected, and viewed as a huge star. It's just hard to generate real sympathy for someone who's never in jeopardy and never acts like anything bothers him. Even the inhuman force of destruction the Undertaker makes everyone sad when he staggers around or tries to sit up and can't.
Alex
Bratwurst








Since: 24.2.02

Since last post: 24 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.55
That's the problem when your character is essentially a big Mary Sue. Triple H is the smartest, funniest, and most talented wrestler in the WWE Universe.
used2bcool
Bockwurst








Since: 5.11.08
From: Lake Forest, IL

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

    It's just hard to generate real sympathy for someone who's never in jeopardy and never acts like anything bothers him. Even the inhuman force of destruction the Undertaker makes everyone sad when he staggers around or tries to sit up and can't.


Wow, I'd never thought about it that way, but it's so true. Guess it's a testament to the talent of the Undertaker that he can take that character and still garner sympathy for those moments where he is down and out.



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Cover up your face, you can't run the race
The pace is too fast, you just won't last
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kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 30 days
Last activity: 1 day
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.63
    Originally posted by Tenken347
      Originally posted by kentish
        Originally posted by Tenken347
        I don't know - I think Matt vs. Jeff in a face/face "respect" situation could be pretty good. I'd particularly be in favor of it if it also meant Matt winning the Royal Rumble, which I admit isn't particularly likely but I'd get a real kick out of it.

      Not sure about face vs. face, they did earlier this decade and it was lame. They have both improved since then, but I still think Matt as a heel would work. Version 1.0 was awesome and was the most I ever cared about Matt. Jeff vs. Matt could be very Bret/Owen-ish, except with the older brother being jealous.


    Thing is, as good a heel as Matt can be, the fans love him right now. I think it would be a mistake to make him a heel while he's still this hot as a face. Neither Matt nor Jeff are the same performers they were even three years ago - they've both improved so much in every aspect. I think they could make the face/face match work now.

Is Matt that hot as a face right now? Seems a bit stale to me, and certainly not as over as he was a year ago. Sometimes heel turns work for failed faces, like Rocky, but sometimes a heel turn works best when it is someone the fans truly love, like Orndorff, Hogan, or Savage. Plus, how could it even be face/face if Matt is trying to kill Jeff??




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
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I thought Matt Hardy's rationalization was on the weak side. It might still have worked for me, though, if they hadn't been playing that damn music over his promo. It just killed that segment for me.
- Tenken347, WWE SmackDown! 1.30.09 (2009)
Related threads: ECW # 135 1.6.09 - ECW # 134 12.30.08 - ECW # 132 12.16.08 - More...
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