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The W - Current Events & Politics - Dusty Baker....
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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1324 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Anybody care to wonder aloud why the PC police have not fried Dusty Baker for his racially charged comments from over the weekend.

God knows that if it were Joe Torre or Grady Little they would've been fired already or suspended by Bud Selig a la Al Campanis, John Rocker et al...



""I haven't seen a starting nine like that since the '62 Mets"
- Dennis Miller on the Democratic Presidential Candidates
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vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
The usual rationale applies -- if you belong to a particular group (be it racial, ethnic, sexual preference, whatever), you can get away with describing or stereotyping your group in terms that would get non-members shredded. I can think of dozens of examples of this off the top of my head...




"You may be wondering why I have been making so many references lately to Fox News. The reason is that it is now my cable news network of choice -- because if Iím going to watch the news and be lied to, I want it to be ridiculously obvious that I am being lied to." -- Center for an Informed America, Newsletter #34
PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
vsp: He wasn't just describing his own race. He was describing us whiteys as being unable to stand the heat.

That being said, I don't think it was racist. It was, however, really stupid: there's no evidence that people of color perform better in the heat. Furthermore, I don't think the "brothers" were brought here because they can stand the heat. I seem to remember my history class saying something about slavery.

Further question: Is it racist to say black people make better basketball players? Because I would interpret Dusty's comments along those lines, minus the statistical evidence to support them.



Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1324 days
Last activity: 1121 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by vsp
    The usual rationale applies -- if you belong to a particular group (be it racial, ethnic, sexual preference, whatever), you can get away with describing or stereotyping your group in terms that would get non-members shredded. I can think of dozens of examples of this off the top of my head...


I know...that's the point.



""I haven't seen a starting nine like that since the '62 Mets"
- Dennis Miller on the Democratic Presidential Candidates
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 534 days
Last activity: 534 days
#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Anybody care to wonder aloud why the PC police have not fried Dusty Baker for his racially charged comments from over the weekend.

    God knows that if it were Joe Torre or Grady Little they would've been fired already or suspended by Bud Selig a la Al Campanis, John Rocker et al...






As always, why the hell didn't Grady say something like this (then again, even if he did, no one can understand what the hell Foghorn Leghorn on crack says anyway).
As for Dusty's comments: I guess now I understand why Barry Bonds struggled in the post season when he was with Pittsburgh. He wasn't equipped to deal with the cold October weather. Perhaps this should tell teams that want to make a push for a World Series title to have an all white team ready for the post season, as the white player will have the advantage because of the cold weather. Also, using Dusty's logic, all NFL teams that play in the northern portion of the country should be all white, as the cold November and December games can only be handled by white players. And, why is Dusty starting Kerry Woods and Mark Prior during the summer? They will be inferior pitchers due to the heat.



If Vince would just hire Dick Dastardly and Muttly and tell them to Catch the Pigeon, it would draw at least an 8 rating.
Pool-Boy
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Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#6 Posted on
I was always under the impression that different skin pigments DID help you cope with the temperature better. This does not make me racist- it is the same as if I said taller people can reach higher things.

The guy may not have been fired, but he is sure getting blasted for it. Though, on the other hand, I am not sure the weather is ever a big enough issue in baseball where a manager would actually have to consider sending out more white people because it is too cold....

(edited by Pool-Boy on 9.7.03 0847)




Still on the Shelf #16 - Way of the Rat
DrOp
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Since: 2.1.02

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#7 Posted on
Pool Boy said:

    I was always under the impression that different skin pigments DID help you cope with the temperature better.


Higher amounts of melanin in your skin allow you to absorb more ultraviolet radiation and therefore not burn (as easily--I have been sunburned).

There is also research that speaks to hair type as either allowing sweat to evaporate (wooly hair) more readily or keeping water in more (locks like Zed's, for instance).

I would not take any of this and make the case for any one type of person being better suited to play in hot/cold weather.



And Marking Out
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Wienerville
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 56 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54

    That being said, I don't think it was racist. It was, however, really stupid: there's no evidence that people of color perform better in the heat.


No biological evidence, perhaps, but I think it's just natural that a ballplayer from the Dominican or somewhere down south (or a player from Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc.) is more used to playing in scorching temperatures than northern-born players. Race has nothing to do with it. You always hear on golf telecasts how Mike Weir "has the edge" in cold-weather tournaments because he's Canadian.

(edited by Big Bad on 9.7.03 1808)


Over 1650 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day! But I'm not bitter!


Q: If you could have one superpower -- the strength of 100 men, invisibility, or the ability to fly -- which would you choose and why?

Michael Vick: Oh man, invisibility. If I was in a bad situation or something or I said something or you know, caught with two girls I could just disappear. I could be gone just like that -- no trouble.


"I don't understand the creative process. Actually, I make a concerted effort not to understand it. I don't know what it is or how it works but I am terrified that one green morning it will decide not to work anymore, so I have always given it as wide a bypass as possible."-- William Goldman


PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00

    Originally posted by Big Bad

      That being said, I don't think it was racist. It was, however, really stupid: there's no evidence that people of color perform better in the heat.


    No biological evidence, perhaps, but I think it's just natural that a ballplayer from the Dominican or somewhere down south (or a player from Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc.) is more used to playing in scorching temperatures than northern-born players. Race has nothing to do with it. You always hear on golf telecasts how Mike Weir "has the edge" in cold-weather tournaments because he's Canadian.

    (edited by Big Bad on 9.7.03 1808)



I live in Massachusetts, and I have spied the occasional black man in the state. I'm sure some of them were even born here, i.e., they know as much about heat as I do.



"Georgie Porgie, he might buy the whole league, but he doesn't have enough money to buy fear to put in my heart."
Pedro Martinez
Stefonics
Morcilla








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
You're right Palpatine... Black people who were born in America know about as much as the heat/cold as you do. But there has to be an evolutionary/biological reason behind the fact that people born in warmer climates tend to have darker skin pigmentation. I don't know that reason because I have never been interested in it. People are people. Fat people sweat in the heat more than thin people. Thin people shiver more in the cold. That being said, I know for a fact that I have to apply a lot of lotion to my skin in the winter months because it takes on a grey pallor. Ahiness is common in Black people in cold environments. Since the skin is a living organism, and grey is never associated with healthiness, it stands to reason that people with darker skin pigmentation tend to be healthier in warmer climates. As far as performing better, that's a completely different story.

As for Baker not getting suspended as Rocker did, I think it has less to do with the fact that he's a minority than with the fact that he didn't phrase it like "Them honkies ain't good at performin in the heat. Why do you think they brought all them niggers over from the dark continent?"

VSP: you said you can think of dozens of examples of this type of behavior off of the top of your head... I just want to hear five. Five statements that are offensive as anything Rocker or any other racist mother said. I'm not doubting you, but I can't really think of more than two.



"Behind that twinkle in your eye, I can see the bitch in you."
- 50
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
No biological evidence, perhaps, but I think it's just natural that a ballplayer from the Dominican or somewhere down south (or a player from Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc.) is more used to playing in scorching temperatures than northern-born players. Race has nothing to do with it. You always hear on golf telecasts how Mike Weir "has the edge" in cold-weather tournaments because he's Canadian

Ah. But to what then do you perscribe Mississippi born and raised Brett Favre's wizardry in the frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field?



"I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about 'man on dog' with a United States Senator. It's sort of freaking me out."


Associated Press interview with Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), 04-07-2003.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 254 days
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#12 Posted on
Satanism.

-Jag



Roxanne from The Real Cancun on being famous:
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 56 min.
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54


    Ah. But to what then do you perscribe Mississippi born and raised Brett Favre's wizardry in the frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field?


Because he is your God and mine. Besides, most of those games are against the Bears, Vikings and Lions, and who couldn't beat those chumpstains?



    I live in Massachusetts, and I have spied the occasional black man in the state. I'm sure some of them were even born here, i.e., they know as much about heat as I do.


You misunderstand me, Palpatine. I meant that ANY person born in a certain climate will be more used to playing a sport in said climate, whether the person is black, white or purple. Obviously, pure talent trumps this (i.e. Favre), but for the average athlete, it may play a factor.






Over 1650 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day! But I'm not bitter!


Q: If you could have one superpower -- the strength of 100 men, invisibility, or the ability to fly -- which would you choose and why?

Michael Vick: Oh man, invisibility. If I was in a bad situation or something or I said something or you know, caught with two girls I could just disappear. I could be gone just like that -- no trouble.


"I don't understand the creative process. Actually, I make a concerted effort not to understand it. I don't know what it is or how it works but I am terrified that one green morning it will decide not to work anymore, so I have always given it as wide a bypass as possible."-- William Goldman


vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3089 days
Last activity: 302 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by Kidbrooklyn
    VSP: you said you can think of dozens of examples of this type of behavior off of the top of your head... I just want to hear five. Five statements that are offensive as anything Rocker or any other racist mother said. I'm not doubting you, but I can't really think of more than two.


That's comparing apples to oranges, somewhat. I can think of lots of examples of ethnic celebrities, comedians, etc. using slurs or sensitive language for artistic, ironic or humorous purposes in ways that would get non-ethnic celebrities flogged. (Snoop Dogg and Marge Schott may use similar terminology, but that's where the similarities end.) I don't class Baker's comments as being anywhere near those of Rocker's, however.

The thing about Rocker is that while his statements in his infamous SI interview were prejudicial, stereotypical and ignorant, the sentiments expressed were hardly unique to Rocker. I've heard them all before, hundreds of times, from people who didn't happen to be rich, famous, or being interviewed by a national publication.

When I spent my college years in Raleigh, NC, the number of people who weren't shy AT ALL about disparaging non-white-male-Americans was a real eye-opener. (Not that I don't hear the same things now and then back home in Philly, of course; racism and prejudice are not strictly Southern institutions by any means... but Rocker, a Georgia boy, may have grown up in an environment where expressing those sentiments didn't cause as much backlash as it might've elsewhere.)

Does any of the above _excuse_ such comments (whether they came from Rocker or from some nobody) or the attitudes that spawned them? Not at all. Rocker was merely a wake-up call for anyone who believed America was entering some sort of enlightened age where attitudes like those were going away.

As you noted, the context is important, and Baker wasn't being openly disparaging towards any specific race (IMHO) in his comments. Compare this to Al Campanis (who suggested that many blacks lacked unspecified "necessities" to assume management or leadership positions) or Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder (who followed his infamous slave-breeding comments by noting that if blacks started getting coaching jobs, "there wouldn't be anything left for the white people.") Baker's phrasing sounded more like "hey, here's a fact that's relevant" than "get the white boys off the field," which is important.



"You may be wondering why I have been making so many references lately to Fox News. The reason is that it is now my cable news network of choice -- because if Iím going to watch the news and be lied to, I want it to be ridiculously obvious that I am being lied to." -- Center for an Informed America, Newsletter #34
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2885 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00

    Originally posted by vsp
    Rocker was merely a wake-up call for anyone who believed America was entering some sort of enlightened age where attitudes like those were going away.


Rocker is one man. Just one man. You can't make conclusions about society at large using John Rocker as your only sample.



"Georgie Porgie, he might buy the whole league, but he doesn't have enough money to buy fear to put in my heart."
Pedro Martinez
vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3089 days
Last activity: 302 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Rocker is one man. Just one man. You can't make conclusions about society at large using John Rocker as your only sample.


I've heard them all before, hundreds of times, from people who didn't happen to be rich, famous, or being interviewed by a national publication.

When I spent my college years in Raleigh, NC, the number of people who weren't shy AT ALL about disparaging non-white-male-Americans was a real eye-opener.


But I repeat myself.





"You may be wondering why I have been making so many references lately to Fox News. The reason is that it is now my cable news network of choice -- because if Iím going to watch the news and be lied to, I want it to be ridiculously obvious that I am being lied to." -- Center for an Informed America, Newsletter #34
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3317 days
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#17 Posted on
I say Cool Runnings shoots this theory to hell.

The only problem I could see from this is if the Florida Marlins trade away all their white players.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 56 min.
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54


    The only problem I could see from this is if the Florida Marlins trade away all their white players.


They could deal them all to Toronto to play for the "White Jays."




Over 1700 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day! But I'm not bitter!




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