I noticed that ever since the Trish-Jackie incident, the women's division hasn't been the same. The women's title wasn't defended at Vengenance and probably won't be defended at Summerslam. And last night with the mud match, and Bischoff saying nobody cares about women wrestling, I wonder if they're giving up on the women's division. I hope not since the WWE has the most talented roster of women ever.
I think it's more because of the thinness of the women's roster at the moment. Molly/Trish matches are played. So are Molly/Trish mixed tags. And who else is there? Victoria and Nidia, judging by the few matches they've had on TV, are decent but not ready to be trusted with anything major. Ivory's spending her time on Tough Enough. Stacey and Torrie ... well, enough said. And Miss Jackie's apparently vanished into hyperspace.
What I'm hoping is that Molly comes out and refuses to defend her title against someone who won the title shot in some stupid mud wrestling match. Instant heel heat, and it'd be a lot more fun to watch than Trish/Molly Part MCMLXVII.
> I hope not since the WWE has the most talented roster of women ever.
The main matchup (Trish vs. Molly) has been played out several times recently, with varying combinations of partners. They really don't have anyone else who can step up right now for a solid feud:
* Torrie, Stacy and Terri wrestle now and then, but they're far from capable.
* Jacqueline and Ivory have been essentially MIA from the ring for some time now, while doing other things for the company.
* Jackie is still living down That Match, and it seems they won't chance Linda having a similar performance, so both of them have vanished.
* Dawn Marie has been played as strictly eye candy.
* Jazz and Lita have been injured.
* Nidia's been much more useful and entertaining as a valet.
* Victoria is still pretty much an unknown quantity to the typical WWE fan.
* Stephanie ain't getting in the ring again any time soon.
* Rosie -- wait, he's a guy.
They have MORE women with some training than I can remember the WWE ever having before... but take out the injured and the MIAs and you have two capable wrestlers, some rookies and a pile of breasts. I can certainly see where they'd want to de-emphasize the wrestling aspect for a while.
This is all periodicity. Women's wrestling in the WWE tends to have short periods of activity followed by long periods of strictly T&A fodder. Give it some time to recharge.
(edited by vsp on 20.8.02 0642) "No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_." -- Frank Zappa
Damnit! During the first few months it looked like things are really getting way better for the women's division, the Jazz/Trish/Molly matches were the best I've seen in years! Personally I always liked to see a good wrestled womens match as a little alteration from the standard. Hope to see Jazz and Lita coming back soon, so they at least could do *something* with the division. And why in the fresh hell isn't Ivory in the ring anymore???
"Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulders anymore, you gotta hit them with a sledgehammer!"
I love the subject. Downfall. It suggests there was somewhere to fall from. Weren't they fighting over whether or not Molly had a big ass at some point during the "active" phase? C'mon. The women's wrestling was & is the carniest thing they have going, and that takes some doing, the rest of the roster considered. It's like lamenting AAA going from bad to worse. Buried beneath 25 feet of crap or 50 feet of crap, you still have shit all over you.
and with all the axings as of late, I don't see them trying to bring anyone else in anytime soon. too bad because the women and cruisers are the top 2 elements drawing me to the WWE right now. SD as a whole is 3rd, with some of the Hardcore talents 4th and the "Main Eventers" actually barely interesting me at all (with the exception of Brock.)
"My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ASSHOLE!"
Originally posted by IRSThey could bring Chyna back and let her kick The Raw GM in a place where the sun doesn't shine... Just because he makes fun of the women's title...
Chyna fueds with the Raw GM. Why not? It worked for Stone Cold to Kick Vince's ass...
Chyna should stay away from wrestling and stick to her career of weekly updates on Entertainment Tonight.
These commercials are superfine because they pay for the production costs of putting CHRIS MOTHERFUCKING BENOIT on my GODDAMN TV SCREEN! I will GO GREYHOUND! I am thinking OUTSIDE THE BUN! – Dean Rasmussen 8/1/2002 Smackdown Workrate Report
I was a little shocked by Bischoff making a comment like that, but then again... isn't it true? 'Marks', if you will, don't give a damn about technical merits. They don't give a damn about Trish being/becoming one of the best female wrestlers in the WWE. They don't care about who holds the Women's Title. They just want the T&A.
I love watching the females get in the ring and kick some ass. It's just unfortunate that the WWE has objectified the women so much so that people only want to see them roll around in mud, pudding, gravy, snow, mashed potatoes, or whatever else they have.
My hopes are that this is just a break, until they restructure the division and get the other women who they are training, up to par. Kind of like when Stephanie held the title for 4 months and hardly ever defended it, just to lose it to Lita.
I myself didn't see the segment, but from the way it was set up and Trish's reaction to Bishoff, is it possible that they're planning on her jumping to SD and putting the women's wrestling there, and replacing it with something on RAW? Maybe it's just another assholish thing they're doing to lay at Bish's feet in order to make the eventual beatdown all the sweeter? It would really make Stephanie look like the better "man", as it were, if she could show how "dedicated" she is to women's wrestling.
Triple H is a dead ringer for "Buzzer" of the Dreadnoks. Just give him some mirror shades and teach him to say "Blimey, Zartan".
I agree that the women's division is a joke right now. I was excited when Jazz was the champ, but as a coworker of mine said "she's scary looking." That is the mentality of a lot of WWE fans. They dont want a woman who can wrestle, they want T&A. I admit that annoys me, I do like seeing a women's match that contains good wrestling. I am kind of anti T&A in wrestling. If I wanted to see that, I'd go to the strip club. I watch wrestling because I want to see wrestling. Unfortunately until the WWE fan base shares that same interest, we will be subject to strippers and gravy bowl matches, not to mention the King's annoying woohoos.
That is why evil will always win, because good is dumb!
yeah, but the very least they could do is throw us an actual match with some eye candy, not this eye candy disguised as wrestling. If we're waiting for developmental, injured, and MIA talent, why are we going t5o ruin the wrestling of the one we have (I know, Stacy doesn't exactly have any wrestling ability, but we'll let that slide).
I know, I know, probably just wishful thinking, but I was enjoying Molly's matches...
Originally posted by TicamoI was a little shocked by Bischoff making a comment like that, but then again... isn't it true? 'Marks', if you will, don't give a damn about technical merits. They don't give a damn about Trish being/becoming one of the best female wrestlers in the WWE. They don't care about who holds the Women's Title. They just want the T&A.
And if you don't believe it, go over to the "CRZ's World" board and read the "Britney Spears' Nipples" thread.
I'm going twenty-four hours a day...I can't seem to stop - "Turn Up The Radio", Autograph
So with Trish winning the lame TnA match does that mean she will face Molly at SummerSlam? You could at least look forward to one more great performance from them to perhaps lift the division back up. I say put the title back on Trish and wait for the eventual Jazz comeback, or develop Victoria as a heel to be dealt with. After all she is the closest to Chyna in size of all the current ladies. (Why has she been gone from TV the last two weeks anyway? I thought they said they liked Victoria's match with Trish.)
"Do you not think there are things in this universe which you do not understand and yet which are true?" -Abraham VanHelsing
As Jubuki said, the word “downfall” implies that the Women's Division was ever good to begin with. To me, 90% of the time it's been about T&A and comedy. Remember Sable doing the bump-and-grind? (I watched a WWF tape from 1998 and, MAN, it's hard to believe she was ever over). Remember Fabulous Moolah winning the title a couple of years ago? The lumberjill match in which HARVEY WHIPPLEMAN became the Women's Champion? Debra showing her puppies to distract people who were wrestling Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart? Vince sleeping with seemingly every female on the roster except for Molly? Not to mention the swimsuit matches, bra-and-panties matches, Kat wanting to get naked (“Look at me! I'm not wearing any pants!”-- Lawler) and any number of stereotypical lesbian-type angles (including the serious Xena/Gabrielle vibe I got from Chyna and The Kat-- dammit all to hell, my sister Laura loved that Xena show so much she insists on her friends calling her “Gabby”).
Every time WWE women's wrestling takes one step forward, it seems to take three steps backward. OK, Trish and Molly had some great matches. But what caused the angle between them? “You-- you have a really big ass!” Great way to put the women's division over as being something worth paying attention to, Trish.
If WWE really wants a women's division they can be proud of (and mind you, nothing I've seen indicates that they do), they should pick up a few women that used to wrestle for WOW. I heard that Beckie the Farmer's Daughter (in addition to being a hot chick, which I can attest to) is also quite the wrestler. Hell, they should go to a local WCWO show and pick up a few of their women's wrestlers. My high-school friend Breezie (Beth Terry) could put on a wrestling match in WWE that would have all of you dropping your jaws in amazement. And she's been wrestling for less than a year.
There are great female wrestlers out there, but WWE seems unable or unwilling to give any of them a chance in the big-time. And that, to me, signifies a lack of interest in making the women's division respectable.
“I can't believe it! I just got pinned by a freaking 12-year-old!”-- Kurt Angle talking about Rey Mysterio on WWE SmackDown!, 8/9/02
Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02
I have so much of a take on this. I dont' even know where to begin.
First off I notice that women/mixed tag matches get more of a reaction from the crowd then most male mid-card matches. If we are cutting stuff that gets less "women wrestling reaction" then you got a 45 minute show (or in case of this week 4 minute show).
One thing I dont understand is the hatred for mixed tag matches? I read the quote here and the torchy "urhh another mixed tag, oh well it was decent and thy put out a good effort" I read that all the time. If they put on a good match and effort, why complain? We see two men feuds hook up to make a tag match, why not a woman and a man feud hook up to make a tag match. Why is that all of a sudden "urh another mixed tag?" when we don't say that when two single men team up... I think the Molly/Trish mixed stuff this month or two was great, fans were into it and it was good matches. Hell the men they were in there with got more of an interest leaching off the girls because I remember seeing the their partners in matches not with Trish/Molly and the fans don't have the same response.
I think one of best the matches of the summer (maybe year) was Trish/Bubba v. Molly/SHow - it had everything, ring psychology in will show squish Trish. And great moves like the superplex from the top by Molly on Trish and the doomsday device that Trish/bubba did on Molly. That match had a huge reaction, the fans were freaking out during the match and at the end. OH by the way both girls were in full wrestling gear.
I personally would have loved to see Trish/Bubba v. Molly/ Bigshow in a tables match- There so many stories could be told in that. Like is SHow going to chockslam Trish threw a table? Is Bubba going to go old school on Molly and drive her through a table? Molly could reverse the Stratusfaction and put Trish through the table. Trish could pick up Big Show over her head and slam him through a table (umm maybe not the last one)... I also wouldn't mind seeing Trish/bubba/spike v. Molly/Regal/Nowinski in some elimination match. But all of that seems to be ruined now. And segments and angles that I really cared about seemed to be washed away (with mud) and that pisses me off.
Punkinhed, oh I wish I could agree with you and look for the silver lining. But I don't see it, whenever you have someone say "no one wants to watch this it's not entertaining" it just does so much damage. He made the perception of it not being important at all. Look how heat dies down when Lawler is out there not taking it seriously, now we have someone come right out and say "women wrestling sucks"... It's not a women wrestling thing. If someone goes out and says "no one wants to see little guys" the importance of cruiserwieght matches would/ and did go down the tubes.
Some have stated women wrestling isn't as good as it was earlier this year when Jazz/Trish was going at it. I think in ring it's still as solid. The thing is JAzz/Trish had a solid storyline of vicious Jazz with delicate Trish (but don't judge a Trish by her cover cause she's tough as hell) type of storyline. Lawler cut out the puppy talk in earlier this year remember a PPV Lawler bagged to say it one time "Ross can I say it just one time, Oh purple puppies" commentating on trish's outfit. They were putting JAzz and Trish over strong and that feud went from January to May (jazz injury)pretty strong... THen Trish and Molly and all of a sudden it's cherry talk and big butts and Lawler changing Trish's name from Trish to puppy. I wonder why it's not taken as seriously? Is Molly so much worse then Jazz. Hell no but the build was totally stupid. The matches were still a great effort though.
What also kills me is Ross (can't believe I respected him a year ago now he makes me sick) going on in his Ross Repork with Molly is improving her mic skills. And Victoria is working hard and Trish has so much desire. Take all of that Ross and shove it up your ass. Because none of that is important when you have your partner jacking off in his crown while these women are being degraded in mud matches like common strippers.
And OH god if I hear Vince whining about advertisers pulling out because of content. Maybe I should send an email to Subway and ask if there fine company really wants to advertise and be associated on a show that feels like degrading women in mud matches is a fine thing to do.
I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
EKE, I've always admitted that they need more good talent, and these WOW types could very well be the ticket. But I think you're not properly describing how the division has been lately. Yes, there has been a lot of junk in the past and even in recent months (although we went about 2 months without a B&P match, which was perhaps an improvement). But going back to January and even before, with the start of the Trish-Jazz feud, there WAS a definite improvement in the product and the division WAS seemingly being taken more seriously, while the TnA junk was being kept to a minimum. After all, how else do you explain the WWE picking two women to win their Tough Enough contest and be involved in matches right +away? I don't think it was *just* for the sake of "controversy".
So I think you can describe a certain "downfall" as of late. Unfortunately I think it began with the Jackie Gayda match. I say unfortunately because I happened to like her, and also because they should have given her and other new ladies more of a chance on other shows. To make an entire interesting division suffer because of one or two blown spots in a match was a little harsh, IMHO.
"Do you not think there are things in this universe which you do not understand and yet which are true?" -Abraham VanHelsing
Net Hack Slasher - Boy, someone's a real bitter militant.
That said, the women's WRESTLING is fine, it's the women's storylines that are always sad and pathetic. The mud match was just to further Trish's "I can wrestle, hee hee!" character and Bischoff's swarmyness. I don't know if there's gonna be any kind of payoff, but any twit with half a brain could at least see the purpose of the mud match, degrading or not. And I love how these militants claim how it's so degrading to women, so why are THOSE women doing it willfully in the first place? Bah.
HEY! New Jack couldn't hold my jock when it comes to shooting professional wrestling on ringside camera...let alone those shooting for WWE. And would you feel comfortable working in a ring you knew that New Jack had a hand in putting up? I wouldn't....