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28.11.14 0003
The W - Pro Wrestling - Don't knock Brock
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DVD
Chipolata








Since: 28.7.02

Since last post: 2712 days
Last activity: 2200 days
#1 Posted on
After this past week's Smackdown was over, I rewound the tape and watched the main event again. Did I watch the six man tag again? Nope. Not that I don't appreciate the wrestlers in that match, but besides one guy(Cena), I've seen a lot of the wrestlers involved in that last few years. No, I watched the main over and over again because of one reason. Brock Lesnar. The Next Big Thing. At first I didn't agree with that tagline, but it's starting to take shape. At first he was labled the Next Big Thing, now he's *proving* that he is. And winning the title from Rock at SS will only prove that point moreso. Some call him a poor man's Goldberg. Some say he truly is the next big thing. I think he's somewhere in between. He's no poor man's Goldberg. About the only thing they share is the look. After that, there's nothing to really tie the two(ok, ok, Brock's push seems familiar). This guy sells more and knows more moves than Goldberg probably ever will. With every passing week, Brock gets better. Both in the ring and on the mic. This week's Smackdown proves that point. He looked like he belonged in there with Hogan. Almost another case of the Old Lion and the New Lion going at it. Hogan made Brock look like a million bucks, and Brock did the same for Hogan. He sold like a champ, and brought it when it was needed. He totally reminds me of an accelerated version of Kurt Angle circa mid 2000. Right before he beat Rock for the belt at No Mercy. And like Kurt, I don't see Brock winning the belt as the end of his super push. I think it's just the beginning. He's finally starting to show some character, both backstage and in the ring. He's got his intensity set at 110, and he knows he can back it up. I went nuts when he *destroyed* Hogan and then went over the top and nailed him with the chair shot. Don't get me wrong, I love Hogan, but Brock needs to look like a monster. And the addition of the side bearhug(or the Brocklock as WWE Magazine called it, I may be wrong) is just icing on the cake. It was a while before Angle added the Ankle Lock to his move set. Again, I can't emphasize enough that if you don't like Brock now, just watch and wait. Here's hoping that he either pins Rock clean at SS, or locks in the Brocklock so Rock passes out, and *then* after the match is over, bust out the Shooting Star Press to finish the job. He's such a mixture of all the good aspects of previous champs that he can't lose. Ok, end rant.
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tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4109 days
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#2 Posted on
You're right, Lesnar is improving. I liked the end of Smackdown when he hit Hogan with the steel chair and he smeared Hogan's blood on his chest.

(edited by tomvejada on 10.8.02 1742)

(edited by tomvejada on 10.8.02 1743)

"Catching Hitler was neato!" "Next stop, Hirohito!"
Bart Simpson
SmooveK
Goetta








Since: 27.6.02
From: Fukushima, Japan

Since last post: 3790 days
Last activity: 3478 days
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by tomvejada
    You're right, Lesnar is improving. I liked the end of Smackdown when he hit Hogan with the steel chair and he smeared Hogan's blood on his chest.

    (edited by tomvejada on 10.8.02 1742)

    (edited by tomvejada on 10.8.02 1743)



Does it signal the shock return of Jerry Lynn?!

-K



See the newly minimalisticated SmooveK.com today. Smoove Komics, pictures, and submit your loyalty to SmooveLand. It's everything you've ever wanted in a website, exactly!

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tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4109 days
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#4 Posted on
Did Jerry Lynn do the same thing?



"I just got pinned by a friggin twelve-year-old."

Kurt Angle
SmooveK
Goetta








Since: 27.6.02
From: Fukushima, Japan

Since last post: 3790 days
Last activity: 3478 days
#5 Posted on
In an ECW match with Steve Corino, he took Corino's blood and used it to write "DIE" on his own torso. It was keen!

-K



See the newly minimalisticated SmooveK.com today. Smoove Komics, pictures, and submit your loyalty to SmooveLand. It's everything you've ever wanted in a website, exactly!

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DVD
Chipolata








Since: 28.7.02

Since last post: 2712 days
Last activity: 2200 days
#6 Posted on
Brock going nuts ala Kurt is one more thing I'm looking forward to from him. That and the eventual Brock/Angle match. You *know* that's coming. That's the good thing about Brock as champ. He's got a *long* list of challengers. RVD, 'Taker, Flair, Hogan(maybe), Angle, Edge, and then there's always defending against the midcarders. Hell, I'd even like to see a Rey vs. Brock match. The possibilities are endless.
insideSOLUTION
Chorizo








Since: 3.1.02
From: toronto, ontario, canada

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#7 Posted on
i've always liked brock (and his killer music), but i never have been a big fan of his mega-push. not saying that he's not world title material, he is, but i don't think so just yet. but, he is working his ass off and improving each time he gets on tv, and i believe he is trying to justify to himself, the wwe locker room, the naysayers and the fans that he can run with the ball. maybe i'm being a bit overly dramatic, but i can see brock going all the way at the rate he's going. i'm still not big on letting him carry the wwe's world title just yet, but if that's what's going to happen, then he is sure making it seem like he deserves it. good for him!

*jer.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#8 Posted on

    In an ECW match with Steve Corino, he took Corino's blood and used it to write "DIE" on his own torso. It was keen!


"It's German...die Bart die."
"Well, nobody who speaks German could be an evil man. Parole granted!"

Lesner is improving bit by bit, but the bearhug is such a lame submission move (Brocklock?) that it makes him look weaker. What about a full nelson instead?

I also like how Lesnar is speaking more and more, thus turning his relationship with Heyman into the WWE equivalent of the old Warner Brothers cartoon featuring the little yappy schnauzer and the big bulldog. "Where are we goin' today Brock, huh? Huh?"





I was born in a manger, like that other guy. You know, he wore a hat?
Evil Antler God
Potato korv








Since: 10.1.02

Since last post: 2975 days
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#9 Posted on
I always was sort of a mark for the Warlord's swinging full nelson back when I was a kid, it could work for Brock
SmooveK
Goetta








Since: 27.6.02
From: Fukushima, Japan

Since last post: 3790 days
Last activity: 3478 days
#10 Posted on
Two words for Brock...

KONA KRUSH.

-K-Krush



See the newly minimalisticated SmooveK.com today. Smoove Komics, pictures, and submit your loyalty to SmooveLand. It's everything you've ever wanted in a website, exactly!

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Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 4 hours
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#11 Posted on
Will Brock be good enough to be the champ in a year?
Probably.
Will he be good enough to be the champ in two weeks?
No way in hell.
Will ever be as good as Angle, Rock, Austin and the level of talent we've seen in the top mix in the last couple years?
Definitely not.
But there's no way he should be the champ in three weeks. Not with Booker T, Edge, RVD, Eddy and Benoit ALL ready for that belt before Brock. Two of which (Eddy and Book) aren't getting any younger. I'd even go for giving it to Brock at Survivor Series and let him hold it till mania...I mean who is hurt by letting Rock retain at Summerslam, having him lose the following RAW to RVD or Booker T, and letting that guy have a few strong months before Brock beats him at Survivor Series? It works real well with RVD, since he's never been able to beat Brock. I'd support that---But not this out of nowhere bullshit with no backstory. One week he can't beat the Hardys, and then the next week..KING OF THE RING. Pfft. Please. Last time someone was pushed this unjustifiably hard, he was booed and everyone said Rocky Sucks. His career was almost ruined. Difference there? He wasn't the top hand. If Rocky blue-chip had gotten that push for the world title, the WWE might have been out of business. Last time before that was the year of Diesel power, and a year that nearly put the fed out of business.
Goldberg may have had an undefeated streak storyline. But they didn't start that streak with the intention of pushing him to Hogan's belt. The fans made that decision.
Bottom line...People don't enjoy being told what to like. I hope Brock can draw ratings as the invincible champ.









"There once lived a man named Ray
Who suspected he just might be gay,
he got moist around males,
and he painted his nails,
but his ass-f*cking gave it away."
Faust
Salami








Since: 27.7.02

Since last post: 4420 days
Last activity: 4365 days
#12 Posted on
No, the difference there was that Rocky Maivia sucked as a worker and sucked harder as a character and (more importantly) was being pushed as a face. The people are not being told what to like here, in fact they are supposed to hate Brock.

I will never buy the logic that certain people "deserve" the world title more than others. The story is what matters, not who "deserves" the belt. Casual fans, (about 85% of the audience could care less who "deserves" the belt.)

(In my opinion, the right man for the storyline deserves the title.) Brock is the right man at the current moment. I hope he captures it and holds it until Wrestlemania, assuming the fans get behind it some more (and I think they will. I think Smackdown was the start of something big.)

I can't remember who said his music was good, but I agree. I like the rhythm, but the texture is a little bland. Maybe they could spruce up the instruments a little.

(edited by Faust on 11.8.02 0100)


"And in front of the entire world, I want to show my little boy that sometimes - just sometimes, you have to FIGHT to be a man." - Michael S. Hickenbottom, the man who does not take part in angles that conflict with his religion, swearing violent revenge on HHH in full view of his two-year-old son. 11:06 PM, EST. 08/05/02. This angle is sponsered by the book of Joshua.
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 55 min.
#13 Posted on
The only problem I have right now, personally, with Brock, is his bearhug (or Brocklock, whatever). Whether or not Hogan gets crushed by it, I just can't buy a bearhug as an entertaining move. I can understand why he does it, they want him to stay a "vertical based" wrestler who's hard to get off his feet, such that even his submission hold has him standing up.. but it's a freaking bearhug! Bah.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Eh, I think the very “Next Big Thing” moniker itself is designed to tell us what we have to like. “This guy is going to be the Next Big Thing, whether you like it or not, so you'd better learn to love it!”

I don't want to see Lesnar with the belt. Not now, maybe not ever.

And am I actually hearing several people intimate that Brock should be in the WrestleMania main event? Has the world gone mad? Brock isn't a proven draw at this time. Certainly not enough to main-event a WrestleMania. And my guess is that Brock will continue to look more and more invincible until he loses the belt to Triple H so that he can be made to look invincible. I hope I'm wrong about that, but I have a sickening feeling that I'm right.



“I can't believe it! I just got pinned by a freaking 12-year-old!”--
Kurt Angle talking about Rey Mysterio on WWE SmackDown!, 8/9/02

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2022 days
Last activity: 1956 days
#15 Posted on
"But there's no way he should be the champ in three weeks. Not with Booker T, Edge, RVD, Eddy and Benoit ALL ready for that belt before Brock. Two of which (Eddy and Book) aren't getting any younger. I'd even go for giving it to Brock at Survivor Series and let him hold it till mania...I mean who is hurt by letting Rock retain at Summerslam, having him lose the following RAW to RVD or Booker T, and letting that guy have a few strong months before Brock beats him at Survivor Series? It works real well with RVD, since he's never been able to beat Brock. I'd support that---But not this out of nowhere bullshit with no backstory. One week he can't beat the Hardys, and then the next week..KING OF THE RING. Pfft. Please. Last time someone was pushed this unjustifiably hard, he was booed and everyone said Rocky Sucks. His career was almost ruined. Difference there? He wasn't the top hand. If Rocky blue-chip had gotten that push for the world title, the WWE might have been out of business. Last time before that was the year of Diesel power, and a year that nearly put the fed out of business. "

Your whole argument is totally flawed. As has already ben pointed out, Rocky was a FACE when he was shoved down our throats. Secondly, he was the most bland face EVER. Secondly, throwing the title onto RVD or Booker T, with NO buold up, is the worst idea possible at this point. That's short-sighted booking at it's worst-throw the title onto someone in a "fluke win" without any buildup or backstory. That's not the way to get someone over as a legit main event talent. You do that by pushing them for the months building up to their win, having them go over prominent main event players. Hey, what a coincidence! That's exactly what they're doing with Brock!

Also, Brock's push has not "come out of nowhere". Ever since he came into the fed he's been treated as a big-time name, someone who was going to climb the ladder fast. His debut was saved for PPV-the last person to have that honour was Kurt Angle. He's undefeated. He didn't have trouble beating the Hardys, he crushed them in what amounted to a handicap match at Judgment Day.

"Will ever be as good as Angle, Rock, Austin and the level of talent we've seen in the top mix in the last couple years?
Definitely not."

Wow, I'll have whatever's making you so clairvoyant. Especially considering you're rating him lower than a "mix" which includes The Undertaker, Hogan and Triple H.








Old School's Film Quote O' The Week-"This story's gonna grab people! It's about this guy, he's crazy about this girl, but he likes to wear dresses. Should he tell her? Should he not tell her!? He's torn, Georgie! This is drama!"
-Jonny Depp as Edward D. Wood, Jr. in Ed Wood. Or is it Vince Russo upon his triumphant return to WWE-Land?

Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3900 days
Last activity: 3851 days
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Will Brock be good enough to be the champ in a year?
    Probably.
    Will he be good enough to be the champ in two weeks?
    No way in hell.
    Will ever be as good as Angle, Rock, Austin and the level of talent we've seen in the top mix in the last couple years?
    Definitely not.



OK, I entirely disagree here. Yeah, the push is a bit hyperactive, at the moment. But I hated Angle when he started. What won me over? His in-ring ability. Even though the video and his character bugged me, I wanted to watch his matches, more and more, because of what he did in them, so by the time he was choked out by some mid-carder :} I was cheering for Kurt.

And I can see Brock there in a year, sure. He will need to earn his dues with me, as it were. But he's got the talent. He's got top card capability written all over them, as long as he gets good at cutting promos and developing his character, both of which take time.



PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells

Faust
Salami








Since: 27.7.02

Since last post: 4420 days
Last activity: 4365 days
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Eh, I think the very “Next Big Thing” moniker itself is designed to tell us what we have to like. “This guy is going to be the Next Big Thing, whether you like it or not, so you'd better learn to love it.


I think we're supposed to understand that "The Next Big Thing" is Paul Heyman's (in character) hyperbole. Besides, if the fans boo Lesner cause they don't like him - well . . . good . . . I still say pushing someone like this as a heel is entirely different than as a face.

I can't remember, has Brock used the bearhug before, or was this a one-time deal with Hogan for the internal bleeding spot?

By the way, I was rewatching Smackdown's main event when I noticed something. The dynamic between Paul Heyman and Lesner is truly great. I love watching Paul Heyman's frenetic coaching foiled by Lesner's cool cockiness. It's quite bemusing, IMO.







"And in front of the entire world, I want to show my little boy that sometimes - just sometimes, you have to FIGHT to be a man." - Michael S. Hickenbottom, the man who does not take part in angles that conflict with his religion, swearing violent revenge on HHH in full view of his two-year-old son. 11:06 PM, EST. 08/05/02. This angle is sponsered by the book of Joshua.
count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3525 days
Last activity: 3521 days
#18 Posted on
I've always liked Brock and have no problem with his push if it doesn't piss off the boys in the back. I like the idea of the monster newcomer entering the fed and changing everything. I'm picturing him as the rookie of the year- Pujols driving in 130 last year comes to mind. Brock is just an exagerration of this concept. If he wins the title at Summerslam, I won't be disappointed, but if he headlines WM I will be. It's not time for that yet. And as previously mentioned, it does open up lots of new rivalries that we haven't seen before, which is a rarity in the WWE main event. But get rid of the Brocklock. That's just boring.
rlbehan
Chipolata








Since: 6.7.02
From: Albany

Since last post: 3300 days
Last activity: 2083 days
#19 Posted on
The whole "next big thing" angle has grown on me a bit, and I am anxious to see where it goes. It has been a LONG time since we have had someone hold the title for more than a few months, and I am hopeful we might see that here. They seem to be trying to set up just that scenario with Brock, but I do wonder if he has "it". I have not been to an arena show with Brock there, so I cannot give an accurate appraisal of his "heat" factor, but clearly the powers that be seem to be intent on this push. Summerslam will be telling, because in my humble opinion, the best way for him to take his shot at reaching the heel heat level the WWE is seeking is to do a complete beatdown of the Rock. Use the fact that he will be leaving to film to sell him putting the Rock out. Then, you go whichever way you want with Brock, and set up his eventual defeat at Wrestlemania, or whatever. Fact is, there is always another ppv for him to drop it on if it is not working. On the other hand, perhaps the next big thing will lose at summerslam, and the push will be over. Rock can drop the belt on Raw or Smackdown, and then we go back to square one.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#20 Posted on
Oldschool hero I don’t think face or heel matters at this point, when everyone is admitting that the show is fixed. There is a little something called credibility, however, and Rocky had none to be capturing titles and that’s why he got booed. Brock doesn’t have any either. NCAA doesn’t mean anything in the ‘action-adventure series’, so either wrestling tries to legitimize itself as at least a half-sport, and gives Angle a three-year run on top, or entertainment has to factor in with title reigns.
Now your argument about title wins that come out of nowhere would hold water, IF the title had any value at this point in time. But after going from the guy who couldn’t beat Crash Holly without cheating and was devoid of heat (Jericho) to captain Deltoid (Trips) to the old dude (Hogan), to fat dog that stinks up the yard (Takes) and to the movie star who thought he’d drop in (Rock) the title means about as much as a celibacy speech from Pamela Anderson right now. So continuing this road won’t hurt it, and RVD, being the most over person on the roster right now (along with Edge), won’t kill whatever little value the hunk of tin has left. It would also solidify the image that the fed is trying to broadcast that it is taking a new direction by (horror of horrors) putting the belt on a new face who (triple horror) ACTUALLY HAS THE FAN REACTION TO WARRANT IT! (Oldschool…Please sir, don’t think this vitriol is directed at you.) I, however don’t see why Brock is more deserving that Eddy, Benoit, and Booker who are all in a position where they won’t be as good as they are right now in two or three years. Each of them has well-over a decade in this business behind them. Now is their time. I like the build with Brock, but I’d like it more if it wasn’t a short build toward the top honour in the biz. Assuming he goes over at summerslam, where does he go from there? What’s left for him to accomplish in his career if he does it all at 24? But no one is thinking of him at 28…Or of the company four years from now…Just the quick fix. And yes, the “let’s build a monster and make him champion” notion is a quick fix that’s been done before (cough…Nash…..El Gigante and no, Brock isn’t wrestling better than them…Be CAN but he’s being pushed as strictly a power guy), and I doubt it will draw.
I stand by my Hardy comments. He needed help to beat them. He crushed no one. And I meant the specific workers I mentioned, that’s why I left out Taker, Hogan, and Trips. And believe me, being the Hogan mark I am if I really was hating on Brock for no good reason I would have tore into him after that ass-beating they put on TV over the Hulkster.
Please don’t get me wrong. He could be good. But unless he improves ten times every week, he won’t be Angle or Rock. I hope he is…But I doubt it.
Now Scorpio, I agree that Brock can be top card. But I also think if Scott Norton was starting out today with the same push, we’d be saying the same thing. Anyone can make it to the top of the card. You don’t have to be a great athlete. Dusty Rhodes proved that. And I am totally willing to give Brock time. Time to GET to the title. I still honestly believe titles should be rewards for getting over, not props used to get one over. And I stand by that.
Faust you’re entitled to your opinion. And I to mine. And I think titles should have value. They have meaning to me. They aren’t just props. If they can’t be considered championships in a worked sport, they should at least be considered trophies. Like the MVP trophy. Work hard, draw money, connect with an audience, and you get the title. Not…Accomplish something in a totally different world and then come here and be handed out highest honour…Without a single litmus test to determine the strength of your character, to see if this will go to your head and make you the next Arizona zealot who thinks his in-ring gimmick is a way of life. (Hellwig, of course). And none of that can be determined in 4 months.
Everyone in the IWC is salivating because Brock’s “legit”. Well mastering takedowns has little to do with being entertaining. It isn’t exciting and it doesn’t draw a fucking dime.
Whether we, the fans, are being told what to like, or to hate, we are more importantly being told what to BUY. What to accept. And people don’t like being told what to accept.
I don’t see how is Brock showing in-ring ability, if that’s the argument of support for him (since Heat can’t be). What has Brock done in the ring that any number of big men can’t do? Sure, if we’re talking Sid and Nash, they probably can’t, but Bull Buchanan and Sean O’Hare can do what Brock is doing. He throws a belly-to-belly suplex and all of a sudden he’s a great worker? When did this happen? He’s huge and powerful. That doesn’t mean he’s a great worker.




"There once lived a man named Ray
Who suspected he just might be gay,
he got moist around males,
and he painted his nails,
but his ass-f*cking gave it away."
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come to think of it, Chuck Palumbo's record is pretty high up there. of coarse number of wins doesn't mean much cause noone in the top 5 has been a WWE champion. so Brocks only had about 30 matches all up ay? his percentage must be good for his resume
- miknight, Really weird stats (2002)
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