I guess you're right, but I've got problems w/ Marky-Mark in other areas.
It'd be nice if he put somebody over once in a while. What, exactly, did that feud w/ Cena do for John Cena? Everybody fell all over themselves to give him praise for selflessly working w/ the midcard, but he ended up looking worlds better than everybody he worked with. He doesn't need to job clean to Johnny Stamboli, but he also didn't need to single-handedly destroy the FBI week after week right after they were built up as a somewhat serious group.
I didn't realize there was so much love for A-Train around here. Hey, that's fine. He may be a better wrestler, I just don't find him as entertaining as Mark Henry (Not that Henry is even near the Top Ten of the WWE).
So are hosses all the big men? Or are the tried main eventers out of the running? What about big fat guys like Rikishi or Rosey? I'm guessing you have to have a certain physique to be considered a hoss.
HHH, UT, Test, Lesnar, Nash, Big Show and Kane are all hosses, right? I find them all more entertaining than A-Trian.
Is Goldberg a hoss? I still haven't seen enough of him to rank him anywhere (I didn't get into WCW until the end, which is why I have a soured view of the product, I guess).
I'd put Steiner, Batista, Nathan Jones and Bradshaw below A-Train.
Basically, I think A-Train and Mark Henry are somewhere in the middle of this field, and calling A-Train the top hoss in the WWE seems strange to me. Benoit may be a great wrestler, but he's certainly not filling the majority of the seats.
"Hosses" generally refer to guys 7' (or close to 7') and/or over 300 lbs. Usually both criteria apply, although the fatter guys like Rosey & Rikishi make the group on the strength of their girth. Therefore, Goldberg, Lesnar, HHH, Test, and Steiner wouldn't be grouped as a hoss.
He may be a better wrestler, I just don't find him as entertaining as Mark Henry
Not to be Mr. Semantics, but you originally said:
I think Mark Henry is a heckuva lot better than A-Train
"Better", not "more entertaining". I've found Big Show more entertaining since coming to SD and being built up, but I wouldn't say he's a better wrestler than A-Train. Nash certainly isn't better than Train. I've already said I don't think Test or Kane are better.
I can't argue entertainment, since that's all subjective (hey, I like the WWE version of The FBI, and I stuck w/ WCW up to the very end), but when you say Henry and others are better than Train, that's where I have the problem.
It's all on how they use him. Just about anybody can be entertaining out there if they are booked right. WWE doesn't always put that effort into the guys this board would like them to, but they can do it.
They certainly have the motivation to get as much as they can from Henry, namely that big ole contract. Teddy Long's stable is the right place for him. Peanut Head and Rodney can hide Mark's weaknesses. Heels are supposed to be easier to play than babyfaces. Plus it gives lilly white Raw some much needed flavor (IMO.)
But it all comes back to how they use him. A couple of months ago The Big Show was useless as could be but when his three way against Angle and Lesnar came around, a lot of people here said that he would make a believable champion. Mark doesn't need to get to that level. He can be a solid upper midcard worker. He's no Benoit but I think the Monday Night Football crowd would switch over to see Goldberg beat him.
-Mark Henry loves the ladies -The ladies love Mark Henry -Theodore Long tries to harness Henry as a monster to help back the Mack. -Mark Henry gets distracted by a WHITE lady -*GASP* -Jazz destroys WHITE lady -Mark Henry sad. -Theodore Long tries to harness Henry as a monster... -Mark Henry turns on Long & Mack -Henry beats Mack
The idea is that you have Mark Henry as this unstoppable Juggernaut (TM Marvel Comics), but he just has such a big Achilles heel as being Sexual Chocolate.
Your winner and 3-time Stanley Cup Champion...the New Jersey Devils! Their title defense begins in 4 months!
When it comes to Mark Henry, he's a brawler plan and simple. He can pull out some moves when he needs to, I like that Rikishi, Demott, and Henry have differing styles. The WWE needs some "Heavy Hosses", I like diversity in wrestling, hell I love the high flying cruiser style but a roster full of it would become boring as time moves on. Why are some of you implying that Henry isn't good, because he's not like Angle or Flair? He's not meant to be. Henry is not a crappy wrestler, because he doesn't have huge move set you act like he is unentertaining in the ring, when he's not.
And about "Ring Psychology", it encompasses alot more levels than just setting up an opponent for a finisher, like interaction with the opponent and crowd, inserting your character into the movement of the match. To say that Test doesn't have "Ring Psychology" at this time is stupid, just look back at his recent Raw tag match(w/Steven Richards) against Steiner and Nash, the way he mocked Steiner and played his ego up to the crowd was classic ring psychology. Test has improved, this coming from someone who was a Test-hater, and I hated Test as much as Bradshaw. Test isn't at the Jericho or Flair level but he's trying, and more wrestlers should. He's gotta be a "Hoss", he's like 6'8 and has a muscle build, I believe that qualifies.
IMHO there isn't a huge gap between A-Train and Mark Henry, A-Train is a few steps above Henry in move set. Though Henry doesn't wrestle as much as A-Train does time-wise, both are worthy of being on our TV, unless it's a PPV(at this time). They might be worthy of a pre-PPV Heat.
(edited by Chico Santana on 28.8.03 1617) "SAL BANDINI, WANNA WRESTLE?"
Chico, you gotta take some of the Henry-hating as people just venting. They dig the work rate stuff and it gets frustrating to them that the seemingingly hardest style to perform (and therefor the best wrestlers) doesn't get pushed to the top. Over and over and over.
I'm all for Henry if they give him some of that awesome "70s style" the older marks say Undertaker's been using. (I never got to see 70s wrestling myself.) It's entertaining stuff for me and doesn't require a vast aresenal of moves.
By the way, while I hate Test, he is worlds better than A-Train in the ring
"Worlds better"? How so? Test just pulls off some random moves, then does his finisher, w/out showing any kind of rudimentary grasp os psychology. A-Train at least works the back the majority of the time leading to his finisher. Test is certainly quicker than A-Train, but that doesn't translate into "better." A-Train has gotten much better since he's been in the WWE, while Test has shown marginal improvement, at best.
I'll grant that Test doesn't work psychology in there as often today, but I actually blame that on his finisher. A boot to the face? It's tough to soften up the face for 10 minutes.
Back when Test used the pump handle slam as his finisher, he would focus on the back and neck. He got over the psychology fine, but he's kind of stuck nowadays.
In fact, A-Train is almost the opposite of Test. A-Train used to have the bicycle kick to the face, which again limited his transitions. Albert now can work more on the body and set up for the Derailer.
Molly, Stacy and Daffney all in WWE? I suddenly lost all my will to complain about anything regarding the WWE. Hope I don't lose my street cred for this.
TS, the greatest Wiener rated 6.1554 ever to live!! Oops, I mean 5.5...4.5?? Oh, dammit! I guess Notorious FAB was right.
Why are some of you implying that Henry isn't good, because he's not like Angle or Flair?
No, I'm saying he's not good because he *isn't* good.
Henry is not a crappy wrestler, because he doesn't have huge move set you act like he is unentertaining in the ring, when he's not
It has nothing to do w/ a huge moveset - Henry is just a bad professional wrestler. I like Palumbo, Stamboli, I've been digging the Jindrak/Cade team. None of those guys have a huge moveset. Booker T doesn't have a huge moveset, and isn't what I would call a workrate god, and I like Book. I've found Big Show entertaining lately. If you work in your moves correctly, it doesn't matter how many you have. Nothing Henry does in the ring, aside from his "Chocolate Moose" move, has ever captivated me. I'm fine w/ people's personal preferences when it comes to wrestlers, but I'm just not seeing how people can call Henry good.
Originally posted by fuelinjectedOn the moveset thing, funny you mentioned that people blast Henry because he's no Ric Flair and then mention moveset because Flair has like 5 moves and is one of the greatest ever.
Off the top of my head, I cannot recall an entertaining Mark Henry match.
I was using Flair in terms of his charisma, and in-ring psychology. Flair is the archetype, I was mentioning that just because Henry doesn't put forth the attributes of the greats doesn't mean he's unentertaining. You and Spiff are welcome to your opinions, but there is a good amount of people here that see it a different way.
Hey different strokes, for different fokes. Austin has tons of charisma, but I can't stand him most of the time, IMO I would rather watch Mark Henry.
I don't care for the idea of DDP as a commentator. Two hours of his gimmick once a week would get old real fast. He could be a great fit as a manager, either leading a couple of heels or for a group of new faces.