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The W - Baseball - Does Major League Baseball Deserve To Survive?
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Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 485 days
Last activity: 23 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
Players demanding (and receiving) massive contracts for standing in the sun...

Owners stupid enough to grant said contracts (and pass on the costs to the fans)...

Players *and* Owners completely out of touch with their fan base, to the point of making numerous stupid decisions (contraction/strikes/halting the All-Star Game) and being surprised when the reaction is negative...

All covered in a coat of red ink, supplied by bloated player contracts (nobody is worth a $252 million contract) and the owners' poor business decisions.

I doubt that Major League Baseball could withstand another prolonged strike, especially one timed to occur when the playoffs would normally start. Given the unwillingness of both sides to adopt measures that would save the current system (salary caps, profit sharing), should Major League Baseball be destroyed and rebuilt?

Steph



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Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 901 days
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#2 Posted on
Two words:

Salary cap.

I don't think baseball should be destroyed; only neutered. Will I be pissed to all hell if I can't watch the Twins later on this month? [Booker T]You damn skippy![/BT]

However, maybe this is what baseball needs to get its proverbial head out of its ass. Football, albeit a little too paritied with the cap, is more ultimately enjoyable to watch.
BobHollySTILLRules
Bockwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4348 days
Last activity: 4348 days
#3 Posted on
I DON'T think Major League Baseball deserves to survive.

Screw em, fold the league up, let someone else start up a new league, someone who knows what he's doing (Vince McMahon? hehehehe), the talent will still be there, since MLB wouldn't exist anymore. I think that would actually help baseball (for the most part) more than it would hurt it.

Also, I blame this ALL on the owners. The players may be overpaid, but that's the owners fault. Guy wants too much money? Let his ass sit at home and make none. They don't have the guts to do it. I know *I* wouldn't turn down that money.

(edited by BobHollySTILLRules on 7.8.02 0730)


"BobHollySTILLRules STILL rules!" -SmooveK, finally letting the world know what a select few have known all along. That I do, indeed, rule.

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chazerizer
Italian








Since: 11.7.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4355 days
Last activity: 811 days
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#4 Posted on
First off, I think that a salary cap and revenue sharing would essentially do the same thing to baseball as folding a 100+ year old league and starting a brand new one (and yes you can bet they'd call it MLB 2K2 (or 3)). Why lose a hundred years of tradition for something that is still easily fixable.

Secondly, this is all the owners fault, but not for that reason. Its easy enough to say "let him sit home and make nothing", but the fact of the matter is that if someone is a good baseball player, and the team he's playing for won't (or can't) pay him the salary he asks, he'll go elsewhere. And we all know that the Braves and Yankees are willing to shell out enough money to put small African nations to shame.

The reason this is all the owner's fault was that this problem could have been fixed in 1994. The fact that they failed to rectify the problems that should have been obvious means that they're at fault.

Last but not least, there is nothing wrong with parity. I enjoy the fact that my team every year will at least have the chance to compete. Most of the talent on my team (Pittsburgh Pirates) left because the team could no longer afford to pay their salaries. With a cap, they wouldn't hold them for a long time, but they might be able to hold onto them for some time. And man, have we lost some talent.



"Sales of penis-enlargement treatments and devices in 2000 totaled in excess of $600 million," Skolnick said. "Cock-lengthening is, no pun intended, a consistent growth industry in the U.S., and this bill would severely emasculate it. As usual, it's the little guy who suffers."
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2414 days
Last activity: 2413 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#5 Posted on
Of course baseball deserves to survive. The simple matter is that if baseball - and the accompanying leagues subservient to it - go down, what do we have? A few independant leagues scattered across America. Sure there would be another league (or two) popping up shortly afterwards, but they'd have to re-establish everything, not to mention eliminate the stigma that they would be the corrupt offspring of the failed experiment that was Major League Baseball. No pressure, huh?

However, I think we're all forgetting that there has been progress recently. What are we seeing in labor talks that hasn't been seen in years? That's right, optimism that something's going to be done. I think we've seen just on this board that everyone has a perfect idea to fix the game, and it's not any different here than it is at the MLB table - different opinions, but they're reconciling it, taking some things that they wouldn't normally want in interest of the greater good.

If you're looking for a problem with baseball, it's at the top. I believe Selig has good intentions, but his execution leaves something to be desired. (See All-Star game, 2002, for a prime example of that. And no, I have no clue why he did it, either.) Let's be honest; at times (those times are normally between the hours of 1 AM to midnight, 7 days out of the week), the guy ain't too bright. If the owners wised up and kicked Selig out and installed someone who actually connected with fans, I think that would do a lot to improve the image of the game, if not necessarily the state of it... simply because whomever would get the job wouldn't already be tarred and feathered as a toadie of the owners. Selig has that stigma... probably rightly deserved, and he's gone and screwed the game over. "Twins an aberration," my ass. Don't screw the game over because of one stupid individual.

As it concerns salaries: Are some players grossly overpaid? Sure they are, Mike Hampton, Kevin Brown, Raul Mondesi come to mind immediately. Do they deserve the money? Probably not, but the fact of the matter is that the owners put the money on the table for them, in the hopes that they would help in leading their respective team to the playoffs, and the profits that come with it. If they bombed, that may not necessarily be anyone's fault. As Chaz hit on, the problem starts when some owners (see Steinbrenner, George as a prime example) decide to get the best person out there, at whatever cost, resulting in hugely inflated salaries. Sure, some of the owners are going to let the new hot talent wanting $8 mil a year sit on their ass at home, but others (like Georgie) are going to give it to him, and why? Because he figures he can recoup the $8 mil he spent on him on various revenue methods, tickets, ad revenues, TV, merchandise, whatever. Otherwise, you're flushing money down a toilet; honestly, the owners can't be stupid enough to think, "Hey, if we pay $12 million a year to this guy, we won't be able to afford anyone else decent, we'll suck, and nobody'll see us. Sign him." ? I doubt it (Selig's the commish now, and he's the only person I can see doing this).

And Stephanie, I do agree that $252 million is way too much to pay a player; limits do need to be set.

One last thing: to those that say that money determines the winners, I say to you: Minnesota, Montreal, Baltimore, New York Mets (as much as that pains me). Money doesn't always mean everything.





You aren't a very bright person, but since you always mean well
and you're so likeable, people don't really care.

Jubuki
Kolbasz








Since: 16.7.02

Since last post: 4356 days
Last activity: 4340 days
#6 Posted on
If MLB eliminated guaranteed contracts, they'd go a long way to helping themselves out.

It might also help if the owners/GMs/front office dug their heads out of their asses and knew how to run a team and build up a farm system, but I consider that less likely to happen.

(edited by Jubuki on 8.8.02 0052)


Chris
The AIR RAID CRASH
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 545 days
Last activity: 161 days
AIM:  
#7 Posted on
I always hate when people try to say that Baseball is failing bcause of owner stupidity and then they use George Steinbrenner as an example. George is the best owner in Baseball. Why? Because the Yankeess are in the black, theyre a profitable team. And its not just because they are in New York either, if that were the case the top teams would be Chicago Cubs/ Sox, Anaheim/ LA and Houston, and that aint so. He knows what hes doing. He has the most competent front office in Baseball. He has a good manager in Joe Torre. He runs a disciplined team (for the most part). Dont hate the guy because hes been smart. Hes done everything right to get the Yankees where they are today. He didnt wildly overspend, he developed good players like Jeter and Bernie Williams, and he brought in good talent like Clemens and Giambi. George is pissed because he played by the rules and now he has to cover for his stupid colleagues who cant run their franchises correctly.

As for fixing Baseball, I think revenue sharing is a good idea. I dont think we will EVER see a salary cap. Selig has to go without a doubt. The owners have GOT to smarten up, the players can only get what the owners give them. These guys are smart business men, but theyve got to learn to run to run their franchises like smart business men.



Always double down on 11....
David Adams
Boerewors








Since: 2.1.02
From: NJ

Since last post: 98 days
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    Hes done everything right to get the Yankees where they are today. He didnt wildly overspend


Whoa there! I'm a Yanks fan and even I can't agree with this statement. 20 million for Karsay? 12 million for Hitchcock? And don't forget that if Steinbrenner signed Bernie Williams to a long term deal before he became a free agent(which he had every opportunity to do) he'd be paying him about 4 million less per year.

Steinbrenner is notorious for overspending. (Remember Jack Clark?)
haz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 36 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    I always hate when people try to say that Baseball is failing bcause of owner stupidity and then they use George Steinbrenner as an example. George is the best owner in Baseball. Why? Because the Yankeess are in the black, theyre a profitable team. And its not just because they are in New York either, if that were the case the top teams would be Chicago Cubs/ Sox, Anaheim/ LA and Houston, and that aint so. He knows what hes doing. He has the most competent front office in Baseball. He has a good manager in Joe Torre. He runs a disciplined team (for the most part). Dont hate the guy because hes been smart. Hes done everything right to get the Yankees where they are today. He didnt wildly overspend, he developed good players like Jeter and Bernie Williams, and he brought in good talent like Clemens and Giambi. George is pissed because he played by the rules and now he has to cover for his stupid colleagues who cant run their franchises correctly.

    As for fixing Baseball, I think revenue sharing is a good idea. I dont think we will EVER see a salary cap. Selig has to go without a doubt. The owners have GOT to smarten up, the players can only get what the owners give them. These guys are smart business men, but theyve got to learn to run to run their franchises like smart business men.



A couple of comments...

If George owned a team in another city, he would not necessarily be successful. You can't tell me that if he owned the Expos, all would be OK. He has a sweet local TV deal that he would not get anywhere else, which is one of the things that allows him to spend more than others.

I agree that the Yankees have some home-grown talent, but I am not sure I can give George any credit for that.

Revenue sharing is a must for Baseball to survive in anything resembling it's current form.

I agree that George is playing by the rules, but thats the problem. The rules stink!!!

Finally, if George were such a great owner, he would be concerned about what it happening to the game in general, as well as his own team. He would be bending over backwards to make sure that other teams were surviving.

What's the point of being a great owner of a sports team without any other teams in the league???



----------
And the real wonder of the world is that we don't jump too
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TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2414 days
Last activity: 2413 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#10 Posted on
Perhaps I needed to clarify. I used Steinbrenner as an example of an owner who will spend whatever money necessary to sign whomever he wants, thus resulting in inflated salaries. That's what I meant when I cited Steinbrenner. Obviously he has to have some semblance of intelligence to run a baseball team that has garnered so much money, love, and hatred. Hard to do that if you're a moron, no?

However, saying Steinbrenner doesn't overspend is like saying Selig enjoys the Twins' success this season.





You aren't a very bright person, but since you always mean well
and you're so likeable, people don't really care.

rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 545 days
Last activity: 161 days
AIM:  
#11 Posted on
My response to that is that its not really overspending if you are winning, and youre not running in the red. As long as they can afford to keep paying what they pay it aint overspending.


TO Haz: I beg to differ, I think George Steinbrenner would be a success in Montreal, perhaps they wouldnt be a cash cow like the yankees but they would be a success im sure. . Also the TV deal is only one part of the Yankess success. Both the Chicago teams have national cable deals and it aint doing them a damn bit of good. Top to bottom the Yankees have got their act together.

To the Cow: Actually the biggest villian in the inflated salary boom has got to be the owner of the Rangers, Tom Benson (?). This guy essentially bid against himself and gave A-Rod 60 million or so more than anyone else was offering. THATS madness, especially since that has crippled his franchise for years. Even Steinbrenner had the good sense to tell A-Rods agent to get lost.


In closing Im not a Yankee fan at all, I just respect Steinbrenner for his patience in building the Yankees as he has.remember in the 80's the Yankess were shitty? But he always had a vision for the future.



Always double down on 11....
haz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 36 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#12 Posted on
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    TO Haz: I beg to differ, I think George Steinbrenner would be a success in Montreal, perhaps they wouldnt be a cash cow like the yankees but they would be a success im sure. . Also the TV deal is only one part of the Yankess success. Both the Chicago teams have national cable deals and it aint doing them a damn bit of good. Top to bottom the Yankees have got their act together. <


I couldn't disagree with you more. The EXPOS have had every opportunity to succeed in Montreal. They have had talent galore and in the end always have to part with it. This is not something an owner can solve unless they have a wish to lose a lot of money...

I think I mentioned that I don't blame Steinbrenner for how he does business as he works in the system, which is flawed. I just think if he had the best interests of his team and the game at heart, there wouldn't be as big a problem as there is...

And Yes, the Rangers guy is an idiot.

(edited by haz on 8.8.02 1818)


----------
And the real wonder of the world is that we don't jump too
----------
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2414 days
Last activity: 2413 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#13 Posted on
So that's the name of the Rangers' owner? Then he probably does deserve to be smacked upside the head a few times for that one. I do agree with you on that, I'm just saying that, by the same token, they essentially bought Mondesi from the Jays, too. $12 million for a .250 hitter seems like a bit much to me.







Which Neglected Mario Character Are You?

Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 269 days
Last activity: 9 days
#14 Posted on
I think pro sports would be wise to take a lesson from the WWF. Less than 25% of all the WWF's revenue goes towards the wrestler salaries. Why? DOWNSIDE GUARANTEES. You don't work, you get a teeny amount. You work, you sell shirts, you put asses in seats, and you get paid extra. If, say, the NHL would pay every player a couple hundred thousand a year, and then give everyone bonuses based upon how well they produce and how well the team does, then you wouldn't have crappy players with $15MIL contracts on losing teams. Sure, the league would need to implement a system, but it'd work, too. If every sport did this, the salaries would be lessened and sports would be a lot more healthy financially.



"That's what the Internet is for, slandering others anonymously" Banky Edwards (Jason Lee), Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

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deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

Since last post: 4335 days
Last activity: 4335 days
#15 Posted on
I also agree, all contracts should be performance and fanny-related.
And fire the commisioner. The Twins winning is no aberration.



"Business has just picked up" says JR. Then right on cue, Molly enters the arena! Never was JR any better in introducing someone. --Raw 7/15
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 31 min.
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
well, D-day (S-day?) is now friday the 30th...




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R-D-Z
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