After reading the horrible negative "this sucked" reviews for RAW, I wondered, does anyone enjoy wrestling anymore? Or do all of the people on this board just like to bash it? I'll admit, Raw wasn't too good, and it deserved most of the negative reviews, but couldn't anyone find anything they liked in the show? It seemed like Z didn't even like it, but one would think that two decent matches on a show would at least get some type of praise.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I like this board alot more when people are trying to find the positives, not the negatives.
What a Manuever!
POP OPEN A CAN OF CHEF BOYARDEE, BIG RED MACHINE! IT'S TIME TO CHOW DOWN, BABY!----Maniacal Clown makes me laugh for literally five minutes straight.
I also did not like RAW, but STILL enjoy wrestling. Case in point, I just recieved five tapes full of Flair title reigns, promos and NWA on WTBS, and watched all six hours of one tape straght through at a friends house. I loved it. And I got more stuff on the way (Hall in Japan, the first year or two of the nWo and Tiger Mask, can't WAIT to get 'em)!
I still enjoy wrestling, but I enjoy promos and talking segments less and less and the actual physical contests more. I've been pro Smackdown the last few weeks, myself, because while they didn't exactly stun me with their greatness I liked the matchups and wrestling better on those shows.
I think the fans want to the product to change, not for WWE to return to the shcok booking I've noticed on RAW the last two weeks. I think the fans want a more wrestling based product, as opposed to all the shocking announcements and talking I see. They have the wrestlers, let 'em go a little longer with more matches. All I ask.
On the seventh day God Didn't REST! He sat on his can and played No Mercy for sixteen hours. THEN he rested.
Depends on what you mean by enjoy. If, by enjoy, you mean put up with a shitty product in the hopes that 5 or 6 minutes of it will be worthwhile, then no, it doesn't appear too many people enjoy it. If by enjoy you mean that someone enjoys it when it's worth a damn, that's a whole different story. Count me in the "I'll watch when they get their fucking act together" camp.
I look at it this way. If someone constantly complains about how much something sucks, but they aren't smart enough to watch something else instead, then their opinion really doesn't count for much. I missed over a month of WWE programming because I'd gotten bored with it and only recently started watching again after reading various reviews that got me interested once more.
After as great a pay-per-view as SummerSlam was, how can you possibly expect RAW to measure up? People are constantly bitching that the WWE gives away too much on free television, yet when they tone it down a bit, people complain about that as well. The simple fact is, most Internet fans are only happy when they have something to complain about.
I don't see how RAW was a bad show. The Booker T/Christian match was solid. Booker T looked phenomenal, probably the best I've ever seen him look. I can remember a time when a match half this good would have been considered far too high quality to even main event a freely televised show.
While you can complain that the Snuka/Island Boys bit was lame and contrived, at least they aired a nice video montage of Snuka. I bet over 50% of the fans in the arena had no idea who he even was.
The flag burning segment with The All Americans was an excellent way to give them mega-heat without actually going so far as to cross the line. It was a great setup for Kane's return as well, giving him solid heels to work against long enough for him to get back his popularity.
And how can you say anything negative about the Van Dam/Dreamer match? The crowd was obviously way into the match as were both of the competitors. If only more matches actually seemed to matter so much to the wrestlers.
The main event was watchable as well. I'm not a fan of either HHH or Undertaker but it was a good main event to follow up SummerSlam. Everyone was so afraid that Brock was going to drop the title but it made the most sense to not even have him wrestle yet. The WWE would be best served to have the top strap defended once a month at the pay-per-view and a few times a year on free TV *only* when it can add fuel to a storyline. When was the last time you saw someone getting a #1 contender spot for a pay-per-view by pinning the champ during a tag match and then beating him again during a non-title match the last week?
All in all, I thought it was a decent show and I'll be watching again next week. That doesn't mean I don't think it could have been better in some regards, but I'm not stupid enough to subject myself to something I repeatedly insist sucks.
I enjoy WWE shows when they're good, but that's pretty rare. SMACKDOWN! has been pretty consistent, but we'll see how UT's involvement shakes it up.
To be quite honest, I am as far removed from my original mark days as I could possibly ever get. I think that has to do with the days of "markish" booking going down the toilet into the current trend of shows being booked strictly for business needs.
You can't have any big markout moments anymore, because someone always has to get their heat back so they can continue to promote shows in the future. Everything is done so that "everybody wins" or, sometimes so "HHH or UT wins." WWE totally lacks balls in this respect, which has killed all of the drama of this male soap opera.
EXAMPLE: While I don't really have a problem with HHH's beat-down on Shawn after the match, the fact of the matter was that it would have played out much better if HBK got to actually celebrate after the match in the old HBK style of dancing like an idiot for a few minutes. For the sake of good TV, it was best to give HBK his moment in the sun, even if he was leaving for a while. Instead, they did a "compromise" and had HHH get heat on HBK, because HHH was the one sticking around. This was done to balance things out, but in the process of balancing, they lose the contrast between winners and losers (especially when booked right), which makes wrestling so appealing in the first place.
Injuries and weekly TV have certainly changed their booking philosophies, but I don't think it was for the better. Since WWE has stopped caring about the end product, I think I have, too.
I'm more interested in the backstage rumors and seeing how things turn out these days.
Hey, I loved Raw this week. I laughed out loud at Nowinski. I marked out for Kane and Snuka. The only thing that sucked, IMHO, was the main event, which I still watched. I have no problems with the current product except for little nit-picky things that are easy to overlook. In fact, I usually love Raw and the PPVs, then come to the Internet and find that everyone else hated it.
So I guess my answer to this thread's opening question is, "Yes, when I don't read the Internet."
Yes, I know, I don't have to read the sites, but I'm bored at work all day and can't resist. My enjoyment of the product suffers at times as a result.
"Oh, i'll never understand this emptiness...but I'll never really try and understand, I guess." - Whiskeytown, Sit and Listen to the Rain
I didn't enjoy Raw. I thought it was a step down from previous efforts.
But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy pro wrestling. When the WWE product turns me off, I turn it off. I then try to expand my horizons. Due to my fanhood of pro wrestling, it has gotten me to check out Puroresu, indpendent wrestling, and mixed martial arts. If WWE is disappointing me, I just throw in a tape or DVD I enjoy and it's all better.
I still enjoy it. Raw wasn't perfect, but it had its moments. The Dreamer/RVD match was great, the Fink/Lilian match was pure drivel. Summerslam WAS a hard act to follow, but it was ok.
For the first several months of this year, I wasn't enjoying it so much. I even went a whole month without watching Smackdown, but things have gotten better. The last couple months have been an improvement. And, after 18 years of watching the WWF, I've stuck through some pretty spectacular lows.
I think they ARE trying now. They're not always hitting the mark, but one can tell the effort is there, where it didn't seem to be a few months ago. So yes, I still like it. But I also fully expect some things to suck beyond compare, because that's the way it's always been.
As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time.
I actually haven't been watching that much recently, but it has nothing to do with the product. A lot of people are maybe just too busy this time of year to worry about wrestling (i.e. going back to school, starting a school-related job, etc.) So that may be why people are kind of blah about it right now. With me I've just had a birthday party and a family get-together the last two Mondays so I've missed RAW. After looking at the recaps though I don't know if I've missed much. The women are still apparently only getting cheap TnA shots, and the cruisers are kind of boring right now so I don't have much reason to watch Smackdown at the moment. (Angle and Nidia may be the only reasons left at this point.)
(edited by DMC on 28.8.02 1332) "Do you not think there are things in this universe which you do not understand and yet which are true?" -Abraham VanHelsing
Well, RAW was kind of a disappointment for a MSG show, and it had two people who the Internet in general isn't too fond of in the main event, so reviews aren't going to be that great.
That said - just look at public opinion about Summerslam and see if we still like it. (I've watched most of it THREE TIMES now, and still mark out for the HHH-HBK match and the crowd in the main event.)
"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree." ---George Carlin
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." ---Anon.
"I also did not like RAW, but STILL enjoy wrestling. Case in point, I just recieved five tapes full of Flair title reigns, promos and NWA on WTBS, and watched all six hours of one tape straght through at a friends house. I loved it. And I got more stuff on the way (Hall in Japan)"
You didn't like RAW, but you plan on enjoying Scott Hall in Japan? Jobbing to Don Frye in somehting like 10 seconds?
I ordered the tape because I'm a fan of Hall. Period. I don't know what happens or don't need anyone else giving me their crappy reviews. Thanks. I'd prefer to watch it myself and enjoy Hall jobbing in ten seconds. Screw you guys!
Also, please, if you're going to give away anyone's jumping, please put it in the spoiler thread. I was looking forward to Smackdown and like being surprised and not knowing what happens. Thanks.
Also, I agree with if people didn't have anything to complain about they wouldn't post. Also, it doesn't make me a loser if I don't stop watching wrestling when it's considered bad. There's always good things about the shows and it's still better than anything else on tv (except Conan, sometimes). Why would I stop watching what I feel is the best show on television? A crappy RAW is better than most other shows I preview. Period. That's why I don't stop watching.
On the seventh day God Didn't REST! He sat on his can and played No Mercy for sixteen hours. THEN he rested.
I think there are tons of people here still who enjoy wrestling and even the overall WWE product. Personally, I very much enjoy Smackdown each and every week. Raw has been less satisfying over the past few months, so a month ago I decided to continue to enjoy Smackdown and leave Monday night free for the drinking of the cocktails.
Jesus Fucking Christ was the collective orgasm over Summerslam not quite big enough for the militant anti-smarks on the web? God forbid we not get just as excited about yet another top of the card matchup for HHH and Undertaker. After all, the world was desperately waiting for a sequel to their scintillating KOTR match a few months ago.
Look, if you liked Raw fine and bully for you. I was not impressed. I got bored to tears by the opening interview. I winced as Lesnar basically got punked out by both guys, and the final match was awful. Or wait, maybe I should have been more excited by the Garcia vs. Finkel match, I must be too jaded of a smark. Or that exciting flag burning in NYC segment, that sure was fun to watch. I didn't enjoy this Raw. I'm sorry if that offends someone. But it's getting really fucking annoying that every time WWE puts on a subpar show, we have the obligatory "why don't people like it more?" thread.
You never know when you'll meet that special someone... the someone that's mysteriously blind to your flaws. or, you know, stupid enough not to realize that yes, you really are that cynical.
Well, I still enjoy wrestling a lot. Not all the matches and certainly not all the interviews (UT and HHH I am looking at you). But I have not missed more than 1 week of wrestling in 16 years. I can honestly say wrestling is a lot better today than it was 15, 10, or even 5 years ago. Maybe not as good as it was 2 or 3 years ago but remember how much it sucked when the WWF tried to regain the Attitude Era? McMahon vs. Austin 2 bring back any good memories? Of course not. The WWE needs to push new talent and come up with new stories. They are doing both right now. There will be a lot of fuckups in that process but the product as a whole will probably be better.
I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
I still, overall, enjoy wrestling, but probably not as much as I used to, or should. Being introduced to the net and different websites and forums have made me "lose my innocence" (I hate that phrase, but I can't think of a better one), therefore it's a little harder for me to get caught up in the moment or 'mark out' as often as I used to. Sometimes, like Rock-Hogan or HHH-Michaels, I can forget about how fake it is, or how much of a politician HHH or Hogan are and just enjoy the match for what it is. The 'problem' then becomes, after the initial mark-out fades, you start coldly analyzing the match and what it means in the long run (Why does HHH job to his buddy and no one else? What's the use of putting a cripple over your biggest heel? Why give Hogan the title? etc...). Sometimes, I find myself being TOO critical of the product and worrying too much about which wrestlers are getting pushed and who's holding down who.
However, it's good to have that "smart/smark/smart mark/whatever the hell you want to call it" mentality. Too often, I feel that the WWE talks down to their fans and has that "Enjoy what we are giving you and like it" vibe about them. The fact is, most of us just want a product that makes a certain amount of sense and also lets us escape for a few hours and shut our brains off. If, as watchers and consumers, we aren't getting what we want, we have every right to be critical and not just go along with what they are feeding us. That's not to say that the typical "mark" is dumber that a person who is more informed about the goings on of the WWE and how thinks "work". It just gives you a different perspective on things and makes Vince and Co. work a little harder to be more innovative.
Right now, the product isn't good. SummerSlam was great, but Raw sucked (IMO). However, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, cause the writers and the creative team have a momumental task of churning out 114 episodes a year, when most TV "action/adventure" series only do about 23. So they are allowed some downtime. Actually, with the changes happening (No Rock, Austin, Hogan etc...), this could be the most exciting time, because now they are going to be force to push new faces and try new things. It's like a team shedding it's high priced talent and watching the rookies develop into bonafide stars.
So yeah, I still enjoy wrestling. When it's good.
By the way, Storm's gimmick includes 1.) telling the audience to shut up, and 2.) occasionally making everyone stand for the Canadian national anthem. You know they don't know what to do with a wrestler when he's making fans stand for a national anthem. It's like waving a white flag and saying, "This guy has no personality -- we give up."
I have to say, I still don't really like Randy Orton, but I've grown to respect him as a performer. He wrestles two long matches every week, and he's getting guys like Ziggler and Barret over while he does it. Guy's a workhorse.