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The W - Current Events & Politics - Do Speed Limits Kill?
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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I never thought I'd ever again agree with a piece in the NY Times magazine, but the concept of speed limits being dangerous has always intrigued me in the sense that death rates do, in fact, go up with lower and lower speed limits.

I would be much more content, at the very least, if all expressway speed limits were bumped up to at least 75...



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Since: 2.1.02

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#2 Posted on
Grimis-the link only works if you are memeber.

Do you mind pasting the article? (if it's okay with the Zims)



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Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

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#3 Posted on
this is linked from google, i think it is the same article.

2 Fast 4 Safety?


I'd have to agree as well. A car that prevents you from going fast is just unAmerican.



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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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Last activity: 3158 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by DrOp
    Grimis-the link only works if you are memeber.

Sorry....it was working with me without a log in.



""I haven't seen a starting nine like that since the '62 Mets"
- Dennis Miller on the Democratic Presidential Candidates
vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 6468 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I don't buy that it's a good thing, as stated.

A friend of mine, Ross, a former Navy pilot who regularly drives between Phoenix and Seattle by way of empty Nevada, argues persuasively that velocity isn't as treacherous as it's said to be; the real risk is variations in velocity. ''When you're in the Navy flying formation at 350 knots'' he says, ''everybody's fine, but if one guy's going 340, you've got a problem.'' For Ross -- and I've heard of experts who agree with him -- unrealistically low speed limits widen the gap between law-abiding slowpokes and the restless majority, resulting in lots of risky passing maneuvers and general chaos.

Who gets to decide what is "unrealistically low?" Just a WEE bit subjective there.

There aren't many drivers who haven't played the (speed limit + n) game, where n is at least a handful. It's about the only way to stay on any major highway these days; if you drive the posted speed limit in the SLOW LANE, people blast by you as if you were standing still, which speaks volumes as to the general failure of highway law enforcement.

But increasing or eliminating highway speed limits will not eliminate velocity disparities -- if anything, it will increase the problem.

Then they changed the law, instituting a top limit of 75 m.p.h. Suddenly, I was a rebellious child again. Whether it was day or night, raining or sunny, I treated 75 as a new minimum -- as the opening bid in a floating poker game.

Seventy-five, you say? I'll raise you four. No sirens yet? I'll raise you six.


Many people (the "restless majority" above) drive like this, as I noted; you'd be hard-pressed to find a driver (myself included) who hasn't done this occasionally. On today's highways, it's almost a necessity. But a minority of these drivers phrase it more like "I'll raise you sixTEEN" or "twenty-six." Get THOSE people off the road and the magnitude of the problem decreases to more manageable levels.

Phrased differently, if the left lane is all going 72 and the right lane is going 65 in a 65-zone, that's one thing. But there will always be wackjobs who want to go 85 in that 65, and will drive hyper-aggressively in pursuit of that -- weaving through traffic, cutting across several lanes at once (the classic far-left-lane-to-right-hand-ramp-through-traffic maneuver) when their exits arrive, becoming irrationally upset when someone pulls into the left lane to pass someone else, but isn't doing it at 90 (and is thus IN THEIR WAY, how dare they!)

You're never going to raise the speed limit to a point where these hyper-aggressive drivers will say "You know, that's enough for me" and settle into normal traffic flow. There is no "fast enough." If you raise it to 75, you can change "72, 65, 85" above to "82, 75, 95" and it still stands, except at higher speeds (giving people less time to react, less chance of dealing with unexpected situations, and less margin for error when dealing with unpredictable hyper-aggressives.)

If a faster limit is posted _and aggressively enforced_, going after the wackos and thus bringing the mean speeds of the slow and fast lanes closer together, that's a little different.

(Keep in mind, of course, that the author is describing highway driving in Montana. What east-coast types like myself consider to be "expressway driving" is nothing like the "long, lonely highways" described in the article; comparing those to the Interstate highways of NY, NJ, PA, MD and DC is like comparing a faucet trickle to a waterfall.)

(edited by vsp on 14.7.03 1029)

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DrOp
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Since: 2.1.02

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#6 Posted on
Thanks for the link Bizzle.

vsp said:

    Keep in mind, of course, that the author is describing highway driving in Montana. What east-coast types like myself consider to be "expressway driving" is nothing like the "long, lonely highways" described in the article; comparing those to the Interstate highways of NY, NJ, PA, MD and DC is like comparing a faucet trickle to a waterfall


Amen to that. There is rarely a time in the DC-MD metro area that I can push my Integra past 70ish that isn't 3 or 4 am with cops in waiting.

The problem of course is that traffic congestion does not stop many from whizzing past me in the morning at over 80, big rigs included.



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OndaGrande
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Since: 1.5.03
From: California, Home of THE LAKERS!

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#7 Posted on

out here in CA the average speed on most highways (with the exception of course of the parking lots called freeways in the big cities) is about 75-80. yes there are unreasonable people driving both too slow and too fast.
I think the best solution is to have speed limits that are variable by condition. if it's 2 am and traffic is light, why not have it be up to something reasonable like 80 or 85. the only problem is that it would be very objective. the other solution I thought of is to have the sl vary by lane. on roads 3 or maore lanes wide, the far left sl should be 80, the middle 65 and the right a truck/old ladies lane at 55.
Otherwise I think some of our bigger or remote roads could use a German style system where the Right lane has a minimum speed and the far left lane is a passing only lane. you blast along in the right lane and just pass everyone going slower than you. I think if you get in an accident it's automatically your fault.



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Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

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#8 Posted on
Well, being someone who just got his learner's permit today, I was scared shitless damn near everywhere. Here I am, doing 31 in a 30 zone, and there's a big-ass line of cars behind me. So I say, "Fuck this, I'm hopping on 495 (MA knows what I'm talking about)", and lo and behold it's a parking lot! And people are STILL doing 70, 75 even. People are just fucking nuts. 65 is fine by me, as long as I can keep doing 65 and getting passed like nobody's business.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 6468 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by OndaGrande
    I think the best solution is to have speed limits that are variable by condition. if it's 2 am and traffic is light, why not have it be up to something reasonable like 80 or 85. the only problem is that it would be very objective. the other solution I thought of is to have the sl vary by lane. on roads 3 or maore lanes wide, the far left sl should be 80, the middle 65 and the right a truck/old ladies lane at 55.


Problem one is communicating all of this to the drivers in an understandable way. In case it isn't apparent, most drivers have problems understanding and obeying ONE speed limit sign that doesn't change.

Problem two is enforcement. If you thought highway patrolmen stopped people arbitrarily now... hoo boy.

Problem three is that the people going 80 in the fast lane will still need to get over to the right lane on a regular basis, for exit ramps and turn-offs and such.

Problem four is that a lane-based speed limit system is _intentionally_ creating the velocity disparity that's being disparaged above.


    Otherwise I think some of our bigger or remote roads could use a German style system where the Right lane has a minimum speed and the far left lane is a passing only lane. you blast along in the right lane and just pass everyone going slower than you. I think if you get in an accident it's automatically your fault.

Apply an upper speed limit as well, and that's pretty much what you have now in many states. There are plenty of states that restrict the left lane to passing-only, and plenty of highways that have minimum posted speeds. (Route 202, right outside my window, is 40 Min - 55 Max, and that's just a state highway.)

(edited by vsp on 15.7.03 0450)

"You may be wondering why I have been making so many references lately to Fox News. The reason is that it is now my cable news network of choice -- because if I’m going to watch the news and be lied to, I want it to be ridiculously obvious that I am being lied to." -- Center for an Informed America, Newsletter #34
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