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The W - Pro Wrestling - Discuss WWE Great American Bash 2004 (Page 2)
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Juggalo101
Italian








Since: 27.4.04
From: Atlanta

Since last post: 600 days
Last activity: 598 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.84
Does the WWE Title mean anything anymore. First thing, as the other guy pointed out, it wasn't even the damn main event. Second thing, go to WWE.com. There's a picture of Paul Bearer and a paragraph about the crypt. Then on the bottom of that it says, "Also at The Great American Bash, JBL defeated Eddie Guerrero for the prestigious WWE Championship, Rey Mysterio..." Just pitiful. Blackjack Bradshaw is the WWE champion.

(edited by Juggalo101 on 27.6.04 2059)
chazworthington
Cotechino








Since: 12.4.02
From: Joisey

Since last post: 2327 days
Last activity: 2305 days
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
Blackjack Bradshaw? What about Justin "Hawk" Bradshaw?

Here's the thing: If a character sucks so much that one has to resort to goose stepping and nazi salutes while on tour in Germany, then just MAYBE you'd think that you're not in the position to be the top heel in the company.

This is assuming that Taker doesn't become the top heel after killing Bearer. This is also assuming that the Smackdown bookers know the answer to this. I'm starting to wonder.

edited for grammar

(edited by chazworthington on 28.6.04 0014)


Actuaries do it continuously and discreetly
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1294 days
Last activity: 628 days
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.70
    Originally posted by TheVile1
    This sounds like one of the worst ppv's in recent memory. Really. Anyone want to refute that?


Sure. There were two really good matches, which is more than you can say for a handful of WWE shows just last year.

    Originally posted by chazworthington
    This is assuming that Taker doesn't become the heel after killing Bearer.


That's a weird thing to assume. One would think murdering his friend would turn him heel.



dotcom // cubs.org // let's go hero
Karlos the Jackal
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
I dunno. I think at this point, given the state of the SD roster, putting the belt on JBL was the best thing. If Eddie had retained, who would he have fought next? (Well -- Undertaker, I guess? But that's not a great option, either, if 'Taker is going to be just a "special attraction.")

With JBL winning, he can take on Cena, Mysterio, and RVD before, I guess, losing the belt back to Eddie or something.

In the meantime, Eddie can take on Mordecai without the belt being at stake, which is probably for the best. And we bide our time while the heel main event scene gets beefed up a little (Big Show returns? Dupree and Booker get built up? Someone transfers from Raw?).

I'm no booker or anything, it just seems to me that, from a storytelling perspective, there are simply more options for JBL as champ.

Plus, Eddie was never pinned, never submitted, and lost the title in a Dusty Finish with a decision rendered by a heel GM. I don't think Eddie came out of it looking bad, and it gives him a basis for demanding his rematch.

--K

(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 27.6.04 2124)
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1953 days
Last activity: 1887 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
"So building a guy up for three months and having him still not be over equals getting the belt?"

NO-ONE'S getting over. And even bearing that in mind, Bradshaw HAS been getting good heel reactions. Last night was the exception to the rule. The PPV was a bad, bad show, but Bradshaw winning the belt was not the main reason for that. It was a really good brawl and the "controversial" finish left things open for the inevitable TV rematch. THIS show sucked due to the massive block of absolutely worthless matches in the midsection (Gunn/Suzuki, Torrie/Sable, Mordy/Holly), and even then it was still better than Judgement Day.



Once upon a time in China, some believe, around the year one double-ought three, head priest of the White Lotus Clan, Pai Mei was walking down the road, contemplating whatever it is that a man of Pai Mei's infinite power contemplates - which is another way of saying "who knows" - when a Shaolin monk appeared, traveling in the opposite direction. As the monk and the priest crossed paths, Pai Mei, in a practically unfathomable display of generosity, gave the monk the slightest of nods. The nod was not returned. Now was it the intention of the Shaolin monk to insult Pai Mei or did he just fail to see the generous social gesture? The motives of the monk remain unknown. What is known, are the consequences. The next morning Pai Mei appeared at the Shaolin Temple and demanded of the Temple's head abbot that he offer Pai Mei his neck to repay the insult. The Abbot at first tried to console Pai Mei, only to find Pai Mei was inconsolable. So began the massacre of the Shaolin Temple and all 60 of the monks inside at the fists of the White Lotus. And so began the legend of Pai Mei's five point palm exploding heart technique.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 hours
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.20
I understand that Eddie never got pinned or submitted but he has still lost twice in a row and dropped the Heavyweight Title to a guy who for his whole career has never been higher than a midcarder. That hurts in my opinion, not that Eddie can't recover, but it does hurt. How was the actual Eddie/Bradshaw match though? From the recap posted in this thread it atleast sounded like a good match. Seems Eddie can put on an entertaining match with anyone, so maybe letting him feud with Mordecai or Dupree or someone isn't a bad idea, but I still think he should have the title around his waste.

Bradsahw could go on and defend his title against Cena, Mysterio, and RVD but that would be 3 SMackdown ppvs with Bradshaw as the champion. He CAN'T keep it that long.

As for the Dibiase and Honky comparisons. Bradshaw is not nearly as good as Dibiase, and probably not even Honky, and neither Dibiase or Honky ever had the World Title (I think?)

It's really a shame, I know a lot of the best guys on the roster have moved over to Raw, but they still could've used Haas, Noble, Nunzio, London and even Stamboli and this would've been a pretty good looking ppv.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
Bullitt
Shot in the dark








Since: 11.1.02
From: Houston

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.53
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    Its a cruel world we live in today that f'n Bradshaw wins the WWE title before Chris Benoit.


I think you're just reaching for something to complain about here...





Making it Happen Since 1971 (agentzero.blogspot.com)
Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2342 days
Last activity: 2318 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.15
This is something I've been noticing on Smackdown as a key part of its problems when it comes to actually being able to put together a full-size compelling program, but after the GAB it only looks to be getting worse: there are just too damn many guys on this show who seem to exist only to get squashed.

In trying to build up three new big-time heels in Mordecai, Kenzo Suzuki, and Luther Reigns, as well as try to keep Eddie and Cena looking strong, the WWE has made a large number of its roster out to be complete chumps. More than half the roster is pure fodder, and by this point the average viewer has simply been conditioned that there's no way these guys are going to have a chance in a serious match. Right now there's maybe a total of three babyfaces who can be expected to have a chance in a match -- Eddie, Cena, and Rey (but only if the opponent is under 225). Those are maybe the only guys on the babyface side of the roster who the fans can expect to see win a match right now. Throw out RVD, Billy Gunn and Hardcore Holly out there as guys who, while they may not win, can at least be expected to put up a bit of a fight before losing.

Meanwhile, pretty much every face in the Cruiserweight division are squash/Velocity fodder. Apparently Charlie Haas can be added to this list as well, having been sacrificed tonight to give momentum to Luther Reigns.

I understand the need to build up a new wrestler, but ultimately both a hero and a villain are only as strong as the quality of their opponent. Right now Smackdown needs some strong babyfaces, and that means cutting the squash and actually letting the good guys win a few. They could also possibly get by with a face turn by Rene Dupree, as that wacky French Tickler dance really is more of a face thing, anyway.

I dunno -- anyone agree or disagree?
jwrestle
Lap cheong








Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.88
I usually try to look at events as overall good unless otherwise. Sheer repect for the wrestling business itself cannot save me from finally saying I'd rather drink from a public toliet than watch what I did tonight. Overall I found that all the action was sub par.

The crusierwieght match could even save the card because as good as it was the pace seemed off. This has to be worst card to be aired on PPV since they started it in the 80's.

If anything they keep twisting the knife the Smackdown brand every time that this stuff is aired. I'm glad I charge my friends to watch or I don't think I'd watch PPV's at all. They all seemed to be into the story which I was but the matches just totally BLEW!

(edited by jwrestle on 28.6.04 0110)


SeVen â„¢
Kishke








Since: 11.1.02
From: Japan

Since last post: 2417 days
Last activity: 2248 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
I tend to be too optimistic, always trying to see things in a positive light. It is one thing to do that as a fan, but when they expect people to spend 30 dollars (60+ to see both brand PPVs) I find it insulting. I can't think of a wrestler that just seemed so wrong wearing the world title since David Arquette and even then I accepted that farce for what is was. I hope JBL can prove me wrong. Right now I have no motivation for paying money to see him lose the belt. Which is what a good heel does. I have no motivation to even watch Smackdown. The Taker angle seems promising. And I am curious to see what is next for Cena. But other then that......




R.I.P. Paul Bearer
1991-2004
Forever cemented in wrestling history

NickBockwinkelFan
Frankfurter








Since: 10.4.02
From: New York City, NY

Since last post: 889 days
Last activity: 1 day
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.94
I think with SummerSlam just six weeks away, this finish allows Eddie and JBL to build to a final match. There's already a lot of heat (legit and perceived) on JBL and having the belt gives him an upper hand, putting Eddie in the chase position. With a bloodbath and a bullrope match already in the books, they can dust off some other type of gimmick match. I thought the first match was very well done and they can do another before a hot crowd in Toronto. I'm sure JBL can expand his tirades to include Canada to up the cheap heat 100%.

I've always felt the excitement of a long program is the chase after the title. Once the fan favorite finally achieves it, there's nothing left to accomplish. Not to downplay title defenses, but the pursuit is where the drama's at.

Putting the belt on JBL is also a classic Vince fuck you directed at CNBC, the "liberal media" and specifically the "internet reporters" who blew the entire "Munich situation" out of preportion (according to Dave Meltzer, this is how many in the WWE feel, JBL and Vince included).



(edited by NickBockwinkelFan on 28.6.04 0145)


"Well, you can't involve friendship with business. It has to be one or the other. It's either business or friendship, or hit the bricks!"
--Life Lessons from "The Tao of Bobby the Brain Heenan" Uncensored 2000 preview


"As long as the check don't bounce, I guess he's okay with it!"
--Former All Pro Giants LB Harry Carson on Bill Parcells joining the hated rival Dallas Cowboys

Swatkid84
Haggis








Since: 24.2.04

Since last post: 3083 days
Last activity: 3070 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.02
To be honest, when I first read the results, I was so upset that Bradshaw won the belt. But after reading some comments in this thread, I still don't like it but I can see a small light at the end of the tunnel. As already stated, faces like Cena, RVD, Mysterio can challenge for the title. Eddie can now become the hunter instead of the hunted and hell have no furioury like a man scorned, bruised and battered.
Bono
Loukanika








Since: 12.6.04
From: Missouri

Since last post: 3736 days
Last activity: 3695 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.33
Angle should be back in the next couple of months, after that SM! is getting HBK, building Bradshaw as the dominant champ should build up for a nice title change... yes I know it's brim right now, but let's go back a year and look at RAW, it was just as bad if not worse! HHH and Goldberg putting on * matches in the main even compared to JBL Eddie going ***, I'll forget this 'Taker thing slide as long as he PUTS SOMEBODY OVER, the CW's should also be getting a nice push, London and Kidman are both due for nice pushes in the near future, them giving Chavo and Rey 20 minutes is a great sign of things to come...

remember it's a young roster without developed characters, let's just give them 3 months, you dont have to watch it, but like i said 3 months and we'll all be happy with the way things are going, imagine

HBK vs. Angle
HBK vs. JBL (Bradshaw should be in better shape by the time Shawn comes around)
London vs. Mysterio
Eddie vs. Booker
Angle vs. RVD

these will be matches that will be on SM! I didnt even mention Cena, who's character should develop more in more into the Franchise of SM! think about an angle with him and Shawn, that rub on Cena WILL make him main event, just wait my peers, just wait



CKW
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
See as unpredictable as JBL winning the title is, it's bad unpredictable. It's a phone call telling you your uncle has been arrested for having kiddie porn on his computer.

Of all the talentless clod champions in WWE history, none have been worse than Bradshaw. I consider Sid and Nash to be at least twice as good as Bradshaw, to have significantly better characters/ring pychology, and a bigger upside at least at the intial launch of their ME pushes. Hindsight is of course 20/20, but you didn't KNOW Nash would not draw when they first set him up there. While WCW still carries the prize for "most absurdly idiotic title switch" with the David Arquette deal, that's a mark nothing will ever touch again. Bradshaw is just a fat guy, can't wrestle, can't get heat, can't get over, and has been that way for ten years. To put the title on him because he made a CNN ticker for three days is a clear sign that WWE is decaying philosophically. And no, that's not a proclamation that WWE is "going out of business". But they just don't know how to run a wrestling company. They don't know what people want, they're so fat-fed and full of themselves that they've entered this "Hitler going mad with power and making mistakes despite signs of failure popping up everywhere" area.

I'm not taking this as a personal insult, but I refuse to watch Smackdown until Bradshaw is no longer Champion. Call it anger or righteous indignation, tell me to "get over myself"---I don't care. I call it a guaranteed waste of my time which as I get older I find is too valuable to spend on hit-and-miss ventures.



Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1396 days
Last activity: 304 days
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    See as unpredictable as JBL winning the title is, it's bad unpredictable. It's a phone call telling you your uncle has been arrested for having kiddie porn on his computer.

    Of all the talentless clod champions in WWE history, none have been worse than Bradshaw. I consider Sid and Nash to be at least twice as good as Bradshaw, to have significantly better characters/ring pychology, and a bigger upside at least at the intial launch of their ME pushes. Hindsight is of course 20/20, but you didn't KNOW Nash would not draw when they first set him up there. While WCW still carries the prize for "most absurdly idiotic title switch" with the David Arquette deal, that's a mark nothing will ever touch again. Bradshaw is just a fat guy, can't wrestle, can't get heat, can't get over, and has been that way for ten years. To put the title on him because he made a CNN ticker for three days is a clear sign that WWE is decaying philosophically. And no, that's not a proclamation that WWE is "going out of business". But they just don't know how to run a wrestling company. They don't know what people want, they're so fat-fed and full of themselves that they've entered this "Hitler going mad with power and making mistakes despite signs of failure popping up everywhere" area.

    I'm not taking this as a personal insult, but I refuse to watch Smackdown until Bradshaw is no longer Champion. Call it anger or righteous indignation, tell me to "get over myself"---I don't care. I call it a guaranteed waste of my time which as I get older I find is too valuable to spend on hit-and-miss ventures.


Likewise.

And if Vince is doing this as some sort of "fuck you," I've got a bigger one for him.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"In addition, my tickets weren’t really what you’d expect from the webmaster of the internet’s largest independent pro-wrestling website." - Widro

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 14 min.
#36 Posted on
Hey, remember when McMahon said the one route they would never go was to do a murder angle? Oh man, how times have changed.

If I was the Undertaker, I'd kill that fat bastard too. He had an extramarital affair with Undertaker's mother (resulting in the birth of Kane), brought back his brother (thought to be dead) in order to destroy him, made Kane into THE MONSTER he is today, and also eats french fries off The Undertaker's plate when they go to Denny's. So I say GOOD RIDDANCE!

Also, you're all wrong. Bradshaw will make an awesome world champion. They can have him melt down the WWE title, sell it for cold hard cash, invest it in the stock market, and towards the end of his reign say he used what he earned in the stock market to make a brand new title belt...and it'll be the Million Dollar Belt. Then Kevin Nash can return, and we'll have the biggest money-drawing main event since HHH/Nash.

You guys are the same people who said Ronnie Garvin would never work as a world champion. Shows what YOU all know!

Now we just have to put the US title on Kenzo Suzuki and give the tag team titles to Billy Gunn and Bob Holly...man, Smackdown's gonna surpass RAW faster than you can say "ZERO WORKRATE!"
meatcurtains
Haggis








Since: 12.5.04

Since last post: 3622 days
Last activity: 3020 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.85
I can't figure what part of the concrete crypt angle insults me most...I think its the fact that they allowed them to DRIVE A FUCKING CEMENT MIXER into the building for the express purpose of killing someone. We're back to the days where the Gobbledygooker looks like a winner of an idea.



Rock, rock on!
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 14 min.
#38 Posted on
The whole storyline was ripe with embarrassments. How about the fact that we're supposed to buy the idea of Paul Bearer, who has f#cked around with the Undertaker for YEARS, is suddenly his "conscience" again? I felt like it was 1994 all over again, and I was supposed to be a retarded twelve-year-old.
Screeching Weasel
Tocino








Since: 13.6.04

Since last post: 3555 days
Last activity: 3545 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.53
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    The whole storyline was ripe with embarrassments. How about the fact that we're supposed to buy the idea of Paul Bearer, who has f#cked around with the Undertaker for YEARS, is suddenly his "conscience" again? I felt like it was 1994 all over again, and I was supposed to be a retarded twelve-year-old.


I absolutley agree; how the hell did they expect us to swallow Bearer and Taker reunited at Mania? We all remember how Bearer turned on him back in 96 with Foley, after managing his for 6 years! Well, maybe 75% of the fans dont remember that, but god damn, couldn't they have slapped on any old excuse for them reuniting? So now that he put the cement on him, doesn't that logically make him a face after all the shit Paul has put him through for the past 8 years? But who cares, there's at least 50 angles that make no sense based on past associations and betrayals. I think I'm more compelled by the storyines on The Joe Shmoe Show 2.
NickBockwinkelFan
Frankfurter








Since: 10.4.02
From: New York City, NY

Since last post: 889 days
Last activity: 1 day
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.94
    Originally posted by meatcurtains
    I can't figure what part of the concrete crypt angle insults me most...I think its the fact that they allowed them to DRIVE A FUCKING CEMENT MIXER into the building for the express purpose of killing someone.


The Teamsters have a ton of juice in Norfolk--they can park where ever the fuck they want.



(edited by NickBockwinkelFan on 28.6.04 0248)

"Well, you can't involve friendship with business. It has to be one or the other. It's either business or friendship, or hit the bricks!"
--Life Lessons from "The Tao of Bobby the Brain Heenan" Uncensored 2000 preview


"As long as the check don't bounce, I guess he's okay with it!"
--Former All Pro Giants LB Harry Carson on Bill Parcells joining the hated rival Dallas Cowboys

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