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27.11.14 1947
The W - Pro Wrestling - Did they go too far?
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Trunzo
Cotechino








Since: 25.7.03
From: New York City

Since last post: 599 days
Last activity: 2 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.73
Should be obvious what this is in reference to: Punk and Paul making a mockery of Jerry Lawler's heart attack.

I think it was tasteless, over the line, and taken way too far. Going into the segment, I was not opposed to having Punk reference it or use it in some way to get cheap heat, but that is absolutely not what this was.

I'd be willing to bet that Jerry was fine with it and gave it the OK, but I'm not sure how much better/tasteful that makes it. Curious as to other W'ers thoughts on this.

Note to CRZ - If you think this doesn't warrant its own thread and should be merged into the RAW thread, sorry for the hassle.
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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 47 min.
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.73
I they went as far as they typically go. They ruined a nice thing and gained nothing from it, so I see it as a lose-lose. But hey, they're losers. They've done worse.

Here, I'll just put my Raw post here.

If Punk luvvvs The Wrestling Of The Past so much, I'm sure he's marking out that he just got to participate in his own version of a Katie Vick segment. There's little doubt that Lawler doesn't care, has been down that road before, and if anything is probably happy to be in a position where he can turn his heart attack into fantasy land. But it was gross, it didn't get heat on Punk (still cheered in the main event), and it just made the company look stupid. If they really were edgy and if anything really goes in wrestling, they would've had Punk get heat on breast cancer or on the blessed troops or any of the stuff they're oh so honored to be a part of, not just the realest emotion they've ever had on the show that wasn't a tribute to a newly-dead wrestler.

Also, making Cole hit the "you're my best friend, Jerry :D" stuff so hard is kind of transparent, but I guess it's an acceptable concession to make to be rid of heel Cole and have Lawler be alive.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 163 days
Last activity: 130 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84

dog bites man



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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.30
Yes, but that won't stop them or anyone defending them. The rather ridiculous line that its ok if Jerry is ok with it. Jerry whose only job is being a wrestler with only one real wrestling company that pays well in existence and who also knows what it is like to live without those paychecks. Who knows his boss can be a mental case when he doesn't get what he wants.

Someone said it was Punk's Katie Vick moment. I think it was worse. I am not sure what to equate it to, but it was pretty awful. Then again, this is a company that made Eddie's death into a storyline. Then again, I am the same idiot that bought $200 Mania tickets and will probably buy things while I am there. Now, did I turn the channel, you bet your ass. Hopefully by Mania they get their shit together. If not, I will go to Mania and if it sucks, I'll walk out.

(edited by lotjx on 13.11.12 1335)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
If Lawler doesn't have a problem with it (and let's presume his ringside presence implies this), then why should I?



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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 43 min.
Last activity: 31 min.
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
I wonder when they'll finally air all that delicious "Owen Hart dying" footage they've been keeping from us.



lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.30
    Originally posted by CRZ
    I wonder when they'll finally air all that delicious "Owen Hart dying" footage they've been keeping from us.


When they hit 1.9. By the way, today's Eddie's 7th anniversary that he perished.

(edited by lotjx on 13.11.12 1409)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
CTX
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Since: 11.5.02

Since last post: 4 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.37
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Yes, but that won't stop them or anyone defending them. The rather ridiculous line that its ok if Jerry is ok with it. Jerry whose only job is being a wrestler with only one real wrestling company that pays well in existence and who also knows what it is like to live without those paychecks. Who knows his boss can be a mental case when he doesn't get what he wants.

For what it's worth Dave Meltzer has reported in the past that Lawler has enough money to retire five times over if he wanted to. And we're talking about a guy who walked out on the company at the peak of its popularity just because they released his wife. I think Lawler's one of the last people you can accuse of just going with something because he's scared for his job. He's been in the business for 40 years and he's been involved in his fair share of questionable angles. I think it's pretty safe to say he's just not bothered.



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dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
It didn't bother me at all.
I thought it was rather lame.
Not shocking or going too far, just bland and lame.
I expected Paul to jump up and run around or something.
Make it worth my time.

I did love how Punk pointed out to Foley that Paul was right back on the job unlike Lawler who took 2 months.




Avatar Mud
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Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 3 min.
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    If Lawler doesn't have a problem with it (and let's presume his ringside presence implies this), then why should I?


It's quite possible that you may have different standards for taste than a 60 year old professional wrestler/promoter from Memphis.

I wasn't offended by it, other than the normal "I'm offended that this is so stupid..." reaction that I doubt they were trying to get.
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 16 hours
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.74
I tossed this around as a disgusting promotional tactic in the Raw thread, but after stewing on it, can you even call it a promotional tactic?

What exactly was this angle supposed to sell? Certainly not the PPV, because John Cena and Ryback weren't involved. They never even mentioned it, in fact. It supposedly pushed the Punk/Foley conflict forward, but their PPV program was scrapped, so why even bother? Was it supposed to push Punk as a heel? He's already pretty over as a heel, so again, why bother?

This may not be "too far," by the strictest definition, but it reeked of a company looking for any kind of attention. The sad thing is, they would have gotten the attention anyway. People were going to tune in for Lawler's return and they had a chance to pull an audience in again. And yet again, they take an opportunity and completely piss it away by reminding everyone how lowbrow professional wrestling Sports Entertainment is.



Papadoc
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Since: 14.1.04
From: NY

Since last post: 68 days
Last activity: 53 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.31
I'm more offended that it was such a bad segment.

John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 152 days
Last activity: 152 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
I don't necessarily understand the subject question. What's "too far"? To me, "too far" implies a consequence of some sort. What's the consequence for them allegedly going too far by having Heyman and Punk make fun of Jerry Lawler's heart attack. Anyone going to quit watching (for good) over that one specific thing? I'd be impressed if you did, frankly. Will anyone responsible for the angle be punished for doing it? Nope. All parties involved thought it was a swell idea. JBL loved it. (facebook.com)

    Originally posted by JBL
    This angle with CM Punk and Heyman faking a heart attack last night, I loved it-this is something Eddie would have loved also. People get worked up, and it is their choice to be offended by whatever they choose. I thought it was awesome, I just wish JBL could have done it!


I'm mainly on his side. I thought it was funny. Because it's an angle. It was a work. It was heels being assholes. And sure, they took something real and made fun of it, but in real life everyone is so happy for the King that he survived that heart attack and is back with them again. And I knew everyone, including Lawler, was okay with the angle. As someone said previously, one of the last people who could get offended over a wrestling angle is Jerry Lawler, who has been in numerous questionable angles in the past.

Besides, it's not like Ric Flair hasn't done a heart attack angle in WCW and the nWo didn't do the same sort of mockery to Arn Anderson back in '97 or '98 so it's not even unprecedented. Though, I believe Arn DID get upset when the nWo mocked him. So maybe the nWo went "too far".

Is this worse than Triple H simulating necrophelia on Katie Vick?
Is this worse than Big Bossman killing Al Snow's dog and feeding it to him?
Is this worse than Big Bossman stealing Big Show's father's casket at his funeral.
Is this worse than Kaientai trying to cut Val Venis' dick off?
Is this worse than Kane strapping a car battery to Shane McMahon and electricuting his nuts?
Is this worse than in 1988 when the Road Warriors took one of their spikes and tried to pop Dusty Rhodes' eye out of its socket?
Is it worse than Vince McMahon making Trish Stratus bark like a dog and disrobe in the ring?
Is this worse than the nWo attacking Ric Flair in a field at night and leaving him for dead?
Is this worse than Steve Austin breaking into Brian Pillman's house and Pillman pulling a gun on him?
Is this worse than when Vince Russo's angle was going to be that he was the father of Stacy Kiebler's baby?
Is this worse than The Undertaker encasing Paul Bearer in cement and presumably killing him?
Is this worse than Brian Pillman winning Marlena in a match with Goldust and then holding her as his sex slave?
Is this worse than Kane raping Lita and impregnating her and then Gene Snitsky dropkicking the "baby" into the crowd?

I could go on for hours. Ridiculous, insulting shit happens in wrestling all the time. I don't know what "too far" is, but personally, I don't think that was it.

Of course, your mileage will vary.

(edited by John Orquiola on 13.11.12 1510)

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Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 3 min.
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Is this worse than ... Gene Snitsky dropkicking the "baby" into the crowd?



Ok, first of all, that was awesome.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 47 min.
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.73
They've certainly used deaths before, but this was the first time they actually showed the (would-be) death and the (clinically) dead body on Raw, in a weird, slickly-produced video package as if 'twere the storyline summary before a PPV main event. #innovator

THEN.
NOW.
FOREVER.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 14 min.
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.39
(deleted by MoeGates on 13.11.12 2047)
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 14 min.
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.39
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    They've certainly used deaths before, but this was the first time they actually showed the (would-be) death and the (clinically) dead body on Raw, in a weird, slickly-produced video package as if 'twere the storyline summary before a PPV main event. #innovator

    THEN.
    NOW.
    FOREVER.


I would not be remotely surprised if those backstage ambulance scenes were recreations.



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miknight
Blutwurst








Since: 22.10.02
From: Oztraya

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 6 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
I don't think they went too far, it was a segment that was done poorly. Punk and Heyman couldn't save it, in fact it was one of the few things involving both that i've easily been able to label not entertaining.

Something being "offensive" is thrown around too much, it was an idea that, like most, could've gone either way depending on how it was done.

I like to look at the Kane/D-Bryan segments when i think something sucked. Because on paper, i can see those anger management segments being equally as pointless and unfunny as the majority of non-wrestling segments tend to be. Except it was performed well, and became fondly remembered almost instantly. While it never had the inherent potential to be viewed as offensive, like this latest segment, it certainly could've gone either way in terms of being entertaining before Hell No knocked it out of the park. See: 'Sheamus/Otunga Brogue-Kick Court' for the opposite result.

So it was a touchy subject, done poorly. Shame it had to drag down Punk and Heyman in the process.



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Kevintripod
Boudin blanc








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87

Saw this posted on Facebook:











"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
CruelAngel777
Landjager








Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
My dad passed away a few years back after having suffered 3 years of a seizure, a stroke, and three heart attacks. The last attack took his life. When I saw Lawler go down live on RAW I had bad flashbacks, yet the segment on RAW did not offend me. Mainly because Lawler is still alive and well. This would be in poor taste had he not survived the attack but Lawler is up and back at work, and if he approved of Miz mocking the death of his mother I'm sure he has no problems with Punk and Heyman mocking his near death.

I can't possibly be "offended" by something that isn't personal. They weren't mocking heart attack victims in general they were mocking a very much living healthy Lawler in a APPROVED SCRIPTED STORYLINE. They wanted controversy and a talked-about shock moment as Lawler returned and they got it, hence threads like this.

I'm actually more into talking about disturbing moments in wrestling like John Orquiola.

How about when Raven and cronies beat the shit out of Sandman and then hung him on a cross? Hell, the whole Raven brainwashes Sandman's actual family angle was pretty messed up.

JBL turns into border patrol and physically kicks illegal Mexicans back to Mexico.

Jerry Lawler calls Goldust a "fag" on television.

This current Lawler angle is nothing in comparison. In fact a quick youtube search of Lawler in the 90's shows that the segment with Punk is right up The King's alley

(edited by CruelAngel777 on 13.11.12 2215)
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