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24.4.14 0334
The W - Current Events & Politics - Democratic Responce & Eletorial College
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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
On my way to the supermarket, i was listening to WTOP 1500 AM here in the DC area where they air the Democratic responce around 11am-ish. I wasn't really paying attention until the dude mentioned that the Demo's are starting an initive called "Every Vote Counts" because:

"We learned in the 2000 elections that every vote does indeed count."

wrong...your presidential vote only counts if the vote is close in your state.

Maryland is a Demo state. They always get about 60-70% demo votes easy. I am a Whig, so I don't really care what i do with my vote because the Demo will win anyway. I think I voted for Nader last go around.

Anyway, what do you think this "Every Vote Counts" thing will accomplish?

I don't know why, but it just bugs me that just because the vote was close in Flordia, that "Now your vote REALLY matters" even though in most states it wasn't really close at all.

Even If i did vote Bush, that 1 vote would not sway it towards Bush because he lost Maryland anyway.

One doesn't have to win the majority of the votes, just the majority in the states that hold the majority of the eletorial votes.

And that just pisses me off...



That's just my 2.403 Yen
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Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 122 days
Last activity: 93 days
#2 Posted on
COMEDY IS...:

The brand-new School House Rock DVD and the new song "I'm Gonna Send Your Vote To College", a half-assed approach to explaining the electoral college. Ah...learning is fun, guy.



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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 14 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
I think the real reason a vote doesn't matter is because whomever is in the white house at any given point doesn't really make a difference. Tell me, whose lives would really be different if Al Gore were president instead of Bush? The gut instinct would be to say the filthy rich and the dirt poor because, but even that isn't true. The rich would still be rich, and the poor would still be poor. Obviously the two men have different views on certain issues (i.e., the environment), but really the only decision either can make that has much of an impact on people's day to day lives is anything regarding social security. That and maybe military actions, which would of course affect military families. How is your life changed because of what a president wants to do to the Alaskan wilderness?

The reason this is so is because people are afraid of anything different. Any presidential candidate can't be too different from any other for fear of scaring people.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
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Jubuki
Kolbasz








Since: 16.7.02

Since last post: 4210 days
Last activity: 4194 days
#4 Posted on
Of course, if we're going to be THAT nihilistic, we may as well light up all the nukes right now and set the whole shooting match off, because at this rate, nothing's EVER going to change, because they're all so afraid of being different. Good talking with ya.



Chris
The AIR RAID CRASH
HrdCoreJoe
Potato korv








Since: 29.4.02
From: Jax, FL

Since last post: 876 days
Last activity: 875 days
AIM:  
#5 Posted on
Well, I'm pretty sure they tell us every vote counts because there are so many people out there, much like yourself rikidozan, who think it doesn't matter and therefore might not even bother to vote. If enough people actually went out to vote it might help even it up a scosh to make it actually matter. Then again, I'm a democrat and an avid voter and it just gets my goat when people say it doesn't matter and choose to give up a right like that. Oh well.
Jubuki
Kolbasz








Since: 16.7.02

Since last post: 4210 days
Last activity: 4194 days
#6 Posted on
YES - why give up your right? Does anyone really want to be Puerto Rican that badly? The wrestling there sure isn't better.



Chris
The AIR RAID CRASH
rabidzebra
Linguica








Since: 23.6.02
From: Charleston SC

Since last post: 2641 days
Last activity: 1472 days
#7 Posted on
Rikidozan being a Democrate in South Carolina I can understand your plight but voting is still worth doing we actually split kinda close 60-40 and thanks to that vote there is a lot more Democrate campaigning so next year it could be closer.

But TheBucksFan I have got to call you out on if there would be a difference if Gore had won. For one thing would we have lost the entire surplus our country had going in thanks to the Tax Cut. And would Gore had submitted that education bill that the teachers union who were staunch Democrat suporters hated. I will admitt some huge issues like prescription drugs and health care will never be solved by either party .

If you cann't see the differences between two presidental canidates you need to call your local campaign headquaters and hear the party lines from both. They will be happy to tell how they differ from the compatition and what they hope to accomplish. But for God sakes don't say a president cann't make a difference in your life I happened to have enjoyed my Tax check I bought myself GTA 3 and that has made me a happy man.

(edited by rabidzebra on 15.9.02 0855)

Enough is Enough
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#8 Posted on
If Gore was allowed to win the election, John Ashcroft would, at most, be another talking head on Fox News and little more than "the guy who lost to the corpse". I think that's enough difference right there.



"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree."
---George Carlin

"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music."
---Anon.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 3 days
#9 Posted on
But then again, your just a an ol' fuzzy bastard!
chazerizer
Italian








Since: 11.7.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4208 days
Last activity: 664 days
AIM:  
#10 Posted on
OK, no name calling. Or whatever that was (I think you called him his name. ha).

This is really kinda sad. Obviously you have no faith in our electoral process. Which surprises me. Because if what you say really was true, then we'd always have a president from the same party, as all states would allways fall the same way. Of course, we know that's not true.

Oh, and RabidZebra, check your spelling. Once is bad, but twice?



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MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 8 hours
#11 Posted on
Florida wasn't the only State that was super close. New Mexico ended up being decided by triple digits. Wisconsin, Iowa, Oregon, and maybe some more were in the "decided by 1% or less" catagory. The Washington Senate race ended up being decided by a few thousand votes. It was a super close election. My personal belief is that these things probably come along once every 100 years, and that your vote indeed probably doesn't count a whole lot usually (except in Municipal Elections, which have a lot more direct bearing on your life anyway). The problem is, you never know if this election is going to be that 1 time in 100.

My main problem is with the logistical problems of voting. It's the dumbest thing in the world that it's not a holiday, or at least on Saturday. And if you are going to have it be on a working day, at least let people vote close to their work. Heck, maybe even try that mail-in stuff they do in Oregon.

It's a cost/benefit problem. The fact is that, in general, 1 person's vote hardly ever makes a difference, so why should someone miss work and have to shlep around to do it. Make it either a) easier (less cost) or b) more impactful (more benefit), and more people will do it. And making it easier is something that can be done and controlled, whereas making it more impactful is somewhat random.

EDIT: you can add New Hampshire to the "1% or less" states. And you can check out the entire results here They're from CNN though, so maybe they're "biased." But I'm sure Fox News has the "fair and balanced" numbers for all you conservatives out there.

(edited by MoeGates on 16.9.02 1701)


Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1087 days
Last activity: 884 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Please remember this though. Your vote does count because there are lower level races in every election, from governor down to school board, which your vote has a much greater effect upon.

My personal preference is to go to the winner take all system they have in Nebraska and Maine. In it, the Presidential candidate with the mst votes in each congressional district gets that district's electoral vote. The two senate votes go to the candidate who wins that state's popular vote.

If this were in place in 2000, the recount wouldn't have been necessary because Bush would've had over 300...
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 8 hours
#13 Posted on
Click Here

This is neat little article about the mathmatics of the electoral college, including which candidate in 2000 would have won under various different ways of doing the electoral college, and if small states have more influence than big states. Check it out, it's pretty neat and not too dense. I have a 12th grade math education and I understood it perfectly.

My personal favorite system would be to do the thing Grimis suggested, expepy without the additional 2 electoral votes per state, just with the C.D's. I don't know who would have won under that scenario.





Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
NotAWrestler
Pinkelwurst








Since: 6.9.02

Since last post: 4181 days
Last activity: 4173 days
#14 Posted on
Of course, none of this matters whatsoever, since Bush LOST the election but was given the presidency as a gift from his dad's buddies in the Supreme Court ... (read Michael Moore sometime, quite enlightening)

As for things being better or worse if Gore was President right now ... well, I think Gore would at least have had the decency not to use Sept. 11 to push his political agenda. But they ARE virtual copies of one another ... look at how many times they agreed with one another during the Presidential Debates. Personally, I think both are dipshits, but I'd rather take the pothead over the coke-fiend.



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-"Mizark" Henry
kazhayashi81
Potato korv








Since: 17.6.02
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Since last post: 2519 days
Last activity: 2469 days
AIM:  
#15 Posted on
Truthfully, using some of the logic applied on this board, using the nation-wide counts for the presidential election is essentially worthless...

Let's say you're a liberal in Texas, or a conservative in New York. Not going to be as tempted to vote if you don't think your vote counts.

If every vote really did count the same, do you think we'd have seen the exact same people come out and vote, person for person, across the nation?

So quite frankly, holding onto this election as being "stolen", is bullshit.

If the recount had gone through, Bush still would've won, still would've became the president through the Electoral College, still be where we are today.

As for if Gore were President, an interesting article by Harry Browne:here.









"You can save the planet, I'll save your seat"- Uncle Kracker, Better Days
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1087 days
Last activity: 884 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by NotAWrestler
    Of course, none of this matters whatsoever, since Bush LOST the election but was given the presidency as a gift from his dad's buddies in the Supreme Court ... (read Michael Moore sometime, quite enlightening)


I always think of "Michael Moore" and "enlightening" to be mutually exclusive terms. Especially considering the mere existence of the Electoral College made the arguments moot.


    Originally posted by NotAWrestler
    As for things being better or worse if Gore was President right now ... well, I think Gore would at least have had the decency not to use Sept. 11 to push his political agenda.


That's a laugh and a half. The only thing Gore would have done was to promise to put the terrorists in a lockbox...

(edited by Grimis on 18.9.02 0751)
BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

Since last post: 89 days
Last activity: 89 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on
They're starting this nonsense to hopefully appeal to the idiotic masses who somehow think "democracy was screwed in Florida" last election, by those damn dirty evil Republicans. That's the motive for anything in the media, really, showing something supposedly evil and claiming it's all the fault of the damn, dirty, demonic Republicans.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 16 days
#18 Posted on
*yawn*

-Jag



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3293 days
Last activity: 3287 days
#19 Posted on
*applause* (for Boromir)

DMC



TRISH!!!! GET THE TABLE!!!!
Tom Dean
Bockwurst








Since: 30.8.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3124 days
Last activity: 2493 days
AIM:  
#20 Posted on
So a troll is ok, as long as he's kind of on your side?

This is the thing that drives me nuts about how people "think about" politics. It's not like rooting for the damn Steelers or something. It's supposed to be about peoples' lives and what is fair and right. It seems like people on both sides would rather "have their side win" than evaluate situations objectively and come to the most reasonable conclusion. Of course, if you truly DO believe that "the motive for anything in the media [is] showing something supposedly evil and claiming it's all the fault of the damn, dirty, demonic Republicans", then whatever. Personaly, it strikes me as an incredibly hyperbolic overstatement not worthy of serious thought. Even if you think media bias towards the left does exist, you don't have to agree with that rant, and really shouldn't if you are a thinking person.



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Wow...and here I thought there couldn't be a worse candidate for the DFLers than Crazy Mark Dayton. Too bad Jesse Ventura's spokesperson has already denied HE will run.
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