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The W - Current Events & Politics - Debate II (Page 2)
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ScottLadd
Chipolata








Since: 23.1.04
From: Douglas, Isle Of Man

Since last post: 7055 days
Last activity: 6944 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.16
Was I the only won who heard Bushy say that the Iraq war was justified as " The UN sanctions were not working as they did NOT remove Saddam Hussein from power". Kerry picked up on it straight away and said thats not what the UN or its sanctions were trying to do, just to stop him having or developing certain weapons.

So it proves Bush was just wanting to get rid of Saddam for Daddy and still people believe the twerp. This should be made more of and perhaps we can get rid of Tony 'The Poodle' Blair once and for all. Bush has now admitted what most thought all along.

That said Bush had more focus in II debate but Kerry I agree with on many more things so I will always back him up more.



I ran, I ran so far away 'cos I want you to want me and I was angry when I met you, you stupid girl

Can you spot Big Ron Atkinson?
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 6635 days
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
Coming off of last night is the best ebay auction of all time...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3845089354
Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 4381 days
Last activity: 4351 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.82
There were times that I think Bush had some better retorts other than "Want some wood?" -- for instance, not spending federal funding on abortion. However, he turns around and loses people on the idea that parents need to be notified -- and Kerry hit back on that.

Did Bush do better after the first 45 minutes? Yes. Did Kerry put him away? No. Did he need to? That'll be revealed in the next couple of weeks. But I bet Palpatine and Grimis were nervous when W had his "Let me finish" moment.

FLEA: I have a feeling that TDS will jump on the video of the lady in the background; just a hunch.

Just for kicks:

Nuclear Winter
Boudin rouge








Since: 9.11.03
From: Bedford, Michigan

Since last post: 3650 days
Last activity: 2201 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by DrOp
    Can Bush stop using the Fear button, though?



    Also, see Kerry's point about already having a "back-door draft."


Kerry runs around talking about backdoor drafts and he's just telling it like it is? Nope, no fear-mongering here.



John Kerry: "The president received $84 from a timber company he owns..."

George W. Bush: "I own a timber company? That's news to me... need some wood?"
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 7001 days
Last activity: 7001 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
The moment that made it for me is when Kerry asked what Compassionate Conservatism means. Its a question, I have been wanting answered for four years now. Bush seemed more energized, but he didn't steal the debate liked he needed to. Kerry owned him in the first debate and in the second one, he want toe to toe with him which is what he needs to do. Bush needs to win a debate, if he goes 1-0-2, it ain't going to help. I know some people are going to give the nod to Bush, mainly to be fair, but I thought Kerry handled everything better.

I also think, Bush came off more unstable. He made some good points and all, but arguing with the audience, not knowing he had a limber company and just he seemed kinda hyper. I don't know it will play, but Bush looked like a preacher rather than president.

I do think Kerry did a good thing by saying he won't raise taxes, Bush I said in '92, it got him elected, so why not say it. I think its a better chance he won't though. If he does, oh well, even Bush admitts we are in a recession, which shocked me a bit he came out and said it. You do have to raise taxes a bit, nothing huge, but a little bit to get the defecit down to somewhere near a trillion dollars.

Bush seemed more confident, but I still think that the fact, he won't admitt that Iraqi is not going well, is probably going to hurt him. The military push of late might be helping him, but I don't anyone honestly believes, this will all go away in a month. People know Iraqi is a mess why not just say, listen it kinda sucks right now, but we will get throught it.

The one thing that is bothering me, the Republicans have been banging on is the globat test and saying its the wrong war. I hate to break to the Republicans, but we wouldn't have a country if Wasthington and the rebels didn't change strategies in the middle of the Revolution. Kerry is going to change the plan, but saying its a problem, lets deal with it and get it over. I don't think anyone here wants U.S. forces in Iraqi for another two years. The global test is more about convincing more than 50% of the U.S. populace agreeing with it. I love how the Republicans missed that first part and went straight to the UN thing. If I remember correctly, Bush didn't have the biggest support going into the war and it was only when the war started did it go above 50%.
The Goon
Banger
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Since last post: 862 days
Last activity: 840 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.08
Here's the thing that bothered me about the town hall: You've been picked to ask a question to either the President or the Senator. Wouldn't you spend a little time practicing beforehand, so that you aren't reading your card and stammering on national television?

There was one lady early on asking a question to Senator Kerry, and I thought she was going to pass out before the question was done.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 2620 days
Last activity: 2161 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.69

    Originally posted by A Fan
    The one thing that is bothering me, the Republicans have been banging on is the globat test and saying its the wrong war.


Of course, it was KERRY that brought both of these points up. The Republicans need to keep reminding people of his dual stance on Iraq.

    Originally posted by A Fan
    I hate to break to the Republicans, but we wouldn't have a country if Wasthington and the rebels didn't change strategies in the middle of the Revolution.


Though this has no relevence to the situation in Iraq, I would point out that the colonies didn't go to every country in the old world asking for permission to secede from Britain. They, thankfully, eventually DID get help, once they proved to be a real threat to win.

    Originally posted by A Fan
    The global test is more about convincing more than 50% of the U.S. populace agreeing with it. I love how the Republicans missed that first part and went straight to the UN thing.


Then why was the word "global" used? If it truly was about the U.S. public, the word "national" would have been used. Global, obviously, means other countries, it's not a giant leap from that to the UN. It is a HUGE leap to turn that into a "national" meaning.




"In the sky. Lord, in the sky..."
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1927 days
Last activity: 1495 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
I agree with those who thought it was pretty even. Bush looked like he was going down in flames for the first half-hour; he was literally yelling every answer. He improved greatly as the debate went on, but he really struggled on his answers about the environment. It looked like he barely even knew the words, let alone how to defend his decisions.

Bush's answer about the abortion question was much more focused. Kerry kinda rambled for a bit and tried to present too many sides of the issue. Obviously, abortion is too complex an issue to just sum up in a one-liner, but Kerry tried to cram a ten-minute answer into a two-minute time limit and didn't quite pull it off.



asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 4873 days
Last activity: 439 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by A Fan
    Bush seemed more confident, but I still think that the fact, he won't admitt that Iraqi is not going well, is probably going to hurt him. The military push of late might be helping him, but I don't anyone honestly believes, this will all go away in a month. People know Iraqi is a mess why not just say, listen it kinda sucks right now, but we will get throught it.


Agreed. Bush can say things are going great in Iraq, but the average person knows it's bullshit. Same with the economy. Most people know we're in hard times, despite all this rebounding talk.

I thought Bush finished strong after a weak start, but what was up with him yelling at the audience and moderators?



-- Asteroid Boy

Now on 411


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"If you want me to watch the shows, buy tickets when you come to town, buy t-shirts, and pay for a PPV every three days, you bet your ass I'm going to hard to impress. And when you give me stuff that blows and then tell me I don't get a vote on sharing that opinion, I'm going to tell you to go catch an STD." - Hogan's My Dad

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 7001 days
Last activity: 7001 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
Eddie Famous, I think you miss the point in what I am saying about changing strategies. The Rebels were using the standard face your foe head on, its when they went to guerrilla warfare did the colonials actually starting becoming a threat and got help. I just find it ironic that Al Queda and the insurgents are using that some prinicipal against the U.S. in Iraqi.

Kerry strategy is to get some pack-up and do what Paul Bremer said this week which is get enough troops on the ground to make a difference. As of now, its U.S. and its shortening list of allies each week and some of the Iraqis figthing the insurgents. Granted, the fighthing looks good for now, but they have done this before. Go on, take over, then lose the position a month or two later. They need to complete take over this towns using mass force which getting more troops would do. Then, they set-up a command center and start clearing the streets. They stake their flag there and then, no retreat, no surrender. I like Kerry's plan better, Bush's keep going on theory didn't help with winning the peace ie start the occupation.

I believe Kerry's plan will work, because the world is greedy. If we open up some of the oil and money, eat some crow, then I can see France, Germany and Russia come in. If the U.S. has to swallow some pride to get this thing down and not have more dead Americans, then so be it. I'd rather show some weakness then totally lose Iraqi which will probably happen if we don't get more people in there. Ultimatly, though losing Iraqi what will happen if not after we leave or a few years later. Its a lost cause, I say just set-up and let the Iraqis knock it down, that way its on their heads and not ours.

RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 1440 days
Last activity: 1223 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.44
asteroidboy: Bush can say things are going great in Iraq, but the average person knows it's bullshit. Same with the economy. Most people know we're in hard times, despite all this rebounding talk.

Who is in hard times? I'm not trying to be a wise ass, but if you are broke this day and age, don't blame anyone but yourself. There is no shame in going broke...but staying broke? Come ON!

Real Quick - all of you MUST see Team America: World Police. Caught the preview last night here and...I never cared too much for South Park, but this movie is absolutely brilliant

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 9.10.04 2343)


Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...

FLEA - 1ryderfakin.com - THE IWC 100! And The Wrestling Dead Pool!!
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 12 hours
ICQ:  
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
I'm worried about all of the O.G. B Y N's that Kerry mentioned. I've never met a B Y N (this must be some sort of Missouri youth group or street gang) but I thought it was very hip of Kerry to use the moniker O.G.

Oh, you meant OB Gyn?

How come no one calls Kerry on it when he misspeaks, but yet people jump all over Bush?



Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6706 days
Last activity: 6706 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm worried about all of the O.G. B Y N's that Kerry mentioned. I've never met a B Y N (this must be some sort of Missouri youth group or street gang) but I thought it was very hip of Kerry to use the moniker O.G.

    Oh, you meant OB Gyn?

    How come no one calls Kerry on it when he misspeaks, but yet people jump all over Bush?


Because Bush has the market cornered and "OBGYN's practicing their love with women" is a much better flub then OGBYN. :)



"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 7033 days
Last activity: 5453 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.10
George Bush is hilarious, the second he came out he got me laughing. He walked like how Nash mocked a muscle guy, you know what I'm talking about, like he had wet deodorant on. Then his constant winking to whoever he's winking at. Of course tops it off with "Need any wood"... He smokes Kerry in the intentional/unintentional comedy. Kerry comment about Bush living in the fantasy world & that's fine if you're a Red Sox fan to the response of cricket chirps. But he did get some points saying the only three people would be effected in a tax increase, himself, the prez and the moderator. I thought it was good when Kerry attacked Bush for the using tag words to describe Kerry as the ultimate liberal and threw back "compassionate conservative" back to Bush's face.

So Bush did own a timber company. Why would he lie about not knowing what Kerry is talking about, it's one of those things I just never understand. Much like Cheney saying he never saw Edwards just to be proven wrong. It's no crime to own a small business but man Bush acting dumb about owning it. It makes you look of one of two things, you are either stupid or a compulsive liar. Especially bad for a man who's accused of making up reasons to invade Iraq... I put this as just dumb on Bush's part, much like Cheney who I thought had the edge on his debate lost that edge when it comes out his memorable quote was BS. I think Bush did much well and was very close but this will mostly likely come back and just bit Bush in the arse, and the thing is it didn't have to.

That abortion question was tough on Kerry, bad timing too as he just put himself over of being for women choice, very NEXT question a girl with a mic, Kerry looks confident and bang she says she's Pro lifer. It really is an impossible question to answer & make her happy, he pretty much did the best he can and said well he respects her opinion and even if he might agree he can't use his religious belief and make policies out of it... What's with the girl who asked the question, she looked so depressed the entire time. Give that girl a happy pill.

This is a real interesting election. I think the different political ideology is obvious, but even more interesting is that these 2 are totally different men. Kerry seems to be much more of a deep thinker, he views everything on a multi level. On the other end Bush is much more simple. everything is right/wrong, good/bad or with us/against us... I think at the end really says it all. Kerry talks about his flip-flop & he explains that he might agree on a bill on a level but if there are things on it he feels is detrimental he'll vote against it. To quote Kerry "It's not as simple as the president makes you want to believe it is". Of course the Prez responds with "Yes it is, it's simple vote Yes or No". When I hear that I think "Right there, there's the difference between the 2". Depending what side of the fence you sit, either Kerry is wishy washy or a deep thinking or Bush is a simpleton or assertive.

One thing that's for certain is that I am pretty sure both Bush and Kerry can't believe this thing is even close. I think Bush thinks he's "Doing gods work and wondering how can anyone vote against ME. Especially with this wishy washy guy". And for Kerry looking at his face when Bush speaks, he looks like a man who's thinking "How on earth is 50% of the population actually believe this sh*t. This guy's the worse, I can't believe this is close"... I think Kerry took a babystep back & didn't go for the knock out punch as he might have considering the negative reports that came out this week. Bush stayed stable but I wonder him lying over something as insignificant as the timber company can hurt him.



smark/net attack wienerville advisory holds at ORANGE alert - High (JBL is STILL WWE champion and now smarks arch enemy HHH is the World Champion. Major red threat, but the undercard seems okay. The alert holds... for now)- 9/19
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 2 days
ICQ:  
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    So Bush did own a timber company. Why would he lie about not knowing what Kerry is talking about, it's one of those things I just never understand.

    ...

    Bush stayed stable but I wonder him lying over something as insignificant as the timber company can hurt him.
Wow, you're really jumping on that...

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/politics/9882161.htm

    A review of Bush's 2001 tax return shows that Bush reported $84 in income from Lone Star Trust in Midland, Texas. It is a blind trust, meaning Bush has no knowledge or control over its investments. The money, according to the tax return, was from oil and gas production, not trees. But a separate filing, his 2003 personal financial disclosure form, says the trust owns a portion of a firm called LSTF LLC -- organized, the form says, "for the production of trees for commercial sales." The form says no sales are expected until 2007.


Bush's 2001 return (partial): http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturns.nsf/Returns/968A0298DD56761B85256E4400790D0E/$file/bush01.pdf
see line 12 and page 5

Maybe it really WAS "news to [him]?"

More presidential (and Kerry!) tax returns: http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/thpwebsite.nsf/Web/PresidentialTaxReturns?OpenDocument



CRZ
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 63 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.81
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    So Bush did own a timber company. Why would he lie about not knowing what Kerry is talking about, it's one of those things I just never understand.


    Originally posted by CRZ
    Maybe it really WAS "news to [him]?"


I'm expecting Kerry to jump all over this next debate, now that people have had time to digest the facts. This can be used to demonstrate that Bush doesn't even understand how his own statistics are being generated.* Maybe he didn't know he got $84 from a Timber Company, but he'll still have to explain how someone can get $84 and be classified as a small business. If Kerry uses this right, he can throw all of Bush's statistics into question. Of course, this won't affect any partisans, and I wonder if anyone who's still undecided trusts anything that comes out of either man's mouth, but with respect to debate strategy, Bush played right into Kerry's hands with his retort.

*Not that Kerry knows where all his statistics come from. He just hasn't caught by them (yet?).

(edited by EddieBurkett on 10.10.04 1212)


You're gonna carry that weight...
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 6635 days
Last activity: 6239 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    How come no one calls Kerry on it when he misspeaks, but yet people jump all over Bush?


He also called Afghanistan "Afgahnastein" and I too think its a double standard.
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 6431 days
Last activity: 6428 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Who is in hard times? I'm not trying to be a wise ass, but if you are broke this day and age, don't blame anyone but yourself.



Did the new century somehow end poverty when I wasn't looking?

I am a college graduate, and I currently work at a part time job that barely pays above minimum wage, alongside at least 5 other college grads. I spent 3-4 months unemployed, alongside my father, until I finally gave up looking for a "good" job and took whatever job I could find. Please explain how a lack of jobs is somehow my and several other people in the same situation's fault.

In fact, here's a nice picture (from this site) to compare job growth under this recession and the last recession:





(edited by eviljonhunt81 on 10.10.04 1450)


Weekly Visitor - Constantly inane for over 2 years!

asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 4873 days
Last activity: 439 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    asteroidboy: Bush can say things are going great in Iraq, but the average person knows it's bullshit. Same with the economy. Most people know we're in hard times, despite all this rebounding talk.

    Who is in hard times? I'm not trying to be a wise ass, but if you are broke this day and age, don't blame anyone but yourself. There is no shame in going broke...but staying broke? Come ON!


I'm thinking more of the jobs situation. Speaking for my own industry, newspapers, there have been constant streams of layoffs since about 2000. Now granted, this was starting before Bush took office because of the Internet bubble popping and other things, but it certainly hasn't improved.

Locally where I live (Waco), we've also seen many retailers go out of business or get closed by corporate. Of course, these are limited first-hand observations, but Kerry's not bullshitting when he says Bush is the first prez since Hoover to have a net loss of jobs.



-- Asteroid Boy

Now on 411


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"If you want me to watch the shows, buy tickets when you come to town, buy t-shirts, and pay for a PPV every three days, you bet your ass I'm going to hard to impress. And when you give me stuff that blows and then tell me I don't get a vote on sharing that opinion, I'm going to tell you to go catch an STD." - Hogan's My Dad

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


whatever
Bierwurst








Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

Since last post: 1456 days
Last activity: 1416 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.39
I thought the debate was pretty even as well, and I am glad Kerry didn't take any steps backward.

As for Bush's speech "oops"-es, they're just so prevalent that people go out of their way to see what he'll say next. For example, (and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this)
"That's why I proposed a hydrogen automobile -- hydrogen-generated automobile."

I'm kind of surprised this hasn't become like Al Gore and the Internet from 2000.



"Lita holds a Stone Cold Steve Austin home pregnancy test. What will the Bottom Line say? Hell Yeah or Eh-EH?" - Raw Satire, 6/15/04

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush

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Well anyways, I posted this (The W) a while back and I got good news this morning. Daniel's FINALLY back if Tampa. He stopped by around 6am to see what I was up to, it seems he got back Thursday and spent Thursday night and all day Friday in bed...
- Cerebus, Does this go here? (2005)
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