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The W - Current Events & Politics - Dean: 9/11 will "require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties"
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1267 days
Last activity: 1064 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
If this is how he reacts under duress....

Dean's comments on civil liberties cause alarm
September 14, 2001
By DAVID GRAM The Associated Press

MONTPELIER Gov. Howard Dean's call for a re-evaluation of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks was criticised Thursday by a Vermont Law School professor.

Good God, Vermont Law School Professor Michael Mello said when read the remarks Dean made at a Wednesday news conference. It's terribly irresponsible for the leader of our state to be saying stuff like that right now.

Benson Scotch, the head of the Vermont chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said it was simply too soon after the attacks to engage in the sort of debates Dean called for.

Dean said Wednesday he believed that the attacks and their aftermath would require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street.

Dean said he had not taken a position on these questions. Asked whether he meant that specific rights described in the Bill of Rights the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution would have to be trimmed, the governor said:

I haven't gotten that far yet. I think that's unlikely, but I frankly haven't gotten that far. Again, I think that's a debate that we will have.

Mello said Thursday, the civil liberties Dean seems to be talking about so blithely, that's exactly what makes us different from the murderers who committed these acts.

It's why they attacked us, he continued. I think our freedom is what they find so threatening, our freedom and the power that I think results directly from that freedom.

Dean's comments came the same day Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta announced new security measures including more official scrutiny for the nation's airports. New procedures call for an end to curbside baggage checks at airports, electronic tickets and other conveniences to which American travelers had grown accustomed.

Benson D. Scotch, director of the Vermont chapter of the ACLU, said his organization would be very much involved if any of the debates Dean called for come to pass.

But he said now was not the time. We have here locally and I think it's been our experience nationally that the worst time in the world to speculate about our civil liberties is in the middle of a crisis.

Scotch said people need to work through their emotions first. I think everybody, including a governor, has a right to have a period when emotions govern to a greater extent than they will govern later.

He added, We're at a moment now of extreme tragedy and sorrow and anger. And tragedy and sorrow and anger are not good qualities to inform a debate about civil liberties.




"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.
-- Sir Alex Fraser Tytler
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spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#2 Posted on
Sounds to me like the ACLU and their brethren are a bit jumpy. The man made a very accurate statement. The way this country is going (as he rather preciently predicted), there is currently and will be in the future some very fractious debates regarding freedom vs. security. And he's honest enough to admit that he doesn't know yet for certain every answer on this issue, or how exactly it would be best to play it out. But really, if you just looked at the ACLU quotes, you'd think he had proposed burning the Bill of Rights or something. Predicting doom isn't necessarily the same as agreeing with it.

(edited by spf2119 on 7.8.03 1027)


She was worth 800 miles driving to see her play - Brenda Weiler

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CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65

    Originally posted by Grimis
    September 14, 2001
I believe the statute of limitations on dragging old news over here has passed on that one. What has he said LATELY?



CRZ
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1267 days
Last activity: 1064 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by CRZ
    What has he said LATELY?

Lately he has attacked the Bush administration for the same thing.

Look, I don't want to burn him to the crisp for saying it three days after the attack. What worries me is him running his mouth off about something similar if a catastrophe happens during a Dean administration.



"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.
-- Sir Alex Fraser Tytler
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 8 days
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#5 Posted on
You mean like Dubya telling the Muslim world we were on a "Crusade" for justice? ;)



She was worth 800 miles driving to see her play - Brenda Weiler

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OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#6 Posted on
On September 13, 2001, I was saying we needed to drop an atomic bomb on the capital of Afghanistan. (You guys would've loved it - I sounded like Bizzle Izzle.) Opinions change, and I don't think anyone was thinking clearly that week.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 8.8.03 0840)




"So, we've got Uday and Qusay. Now, how about the eapons-way of ass-may estruction-day?"
---The Onion, What Do You Think?, 7.30.03
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1267 days
Last activity: 1064 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    I don't think anyone was thinking clearly that week.

THAT is the key!!!



"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.
-- Sir Alex Fraser Tytler
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 13 hours
AIM:  
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    On September 13, 2001, I was saying we needed to drop an atomic bomb on the capital of Afghanistan. (You guys would've loved it - I sounded like Bizzle Izzle.) Opinions change, and I don't think anyone was thinking clearly that week.

    (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 8.8.03 0840)


You're not alone. I almost got into a fistfight with a friend of mine over a plate of Lamb Vindaloo while demanding that we nuke the entire middle east since "well if we just kill every damn Muslim on the planet, there won't be any terrorists."

Thankfully, neither of us have control of the button.



She was worth 800 miles driving to see her play - Brenda Weiler

blogforamerica.com
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1267 days
Last activity: 1064 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Regardless, Dean is probably no worse than(dare I say)....

Perot '04?



"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.
-- Sir Alex Fraser Tytler
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 days
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Regardless, Dean is probably no worse than(dare I say)....

    Perot '04?



At least he isn't running for Governor of California...

As much as I never thought I'd say this, I agree with Grimis. Dean has been a bit of a chameleon with regards to his post-9/11 politics. If he changed his mind, fine... but he needs to be very clear on how and why he did, and he hasn't.

It was a pretty stupid thing to say, regardless of 9/11.



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees

"Finally, a candidate who can explain the current administration's position on civil liberties in the original German."
- Bill Maher on Arnold Schwarzenneger
-proletarian-
Chipolata








Since: 29.4.03

Since last post: 4054 days
Last activity: 4053 days
#11 Posted on
It's a little hypocritical to criticize Dean for those comments while your man in the White House is the one pushing through dispicable pieces of legislation such as the patriot act, that are indeed implementing many (if not all, I admit I'm too lazy to research it too deeply) of the things Dean is quoted as advocating in the above article you provided.

Why not call Bush on the same things you're calling Dean on?

Besides, Dean's liberalism is a media creation, based upon a few high-profile stances on issues such as civil unions. Dean is pro-gun, and a fiscal conservative to boot. I'm not too surprised by the article.
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