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22.11.14 1915
The W - Random - De La Hoya screwed again
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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#1 Posted on
Every person I watched the fight with was shocked Mosley won. ESPN.com had Oscar winning NINE rounds.

Maxboxing.com also gave Oscar nine rounds. The AP had it 116-113, Mosley, so there were eight rounds that De La Hoya didn't win in their eyes, which seems impossible to me. I'll have to watch the replay next week.

(edited by JayJayDean on 13.9.03 2145)


Washington Huskies, 1-1. USC didn't look THAT great after the first quarter, so I'm more optimistic that they'll be the 2003 Pac-10 champs.
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BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#2 Posted on
I believe Oscar said before the fight that he would retire if he lost...think he'll actually go through with that?
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#3 Posted on
I wouldn't blame him if he did. It'd be like when Hagler quit after he didn't beat Leonard. He did say he was going to protest and that there wouldn't be a third Mosley fight.



Washington Huskies, 1-1. USC didn't look THAT great after the first quarter, so I'm more optimistic that they'll be the 2003 Pac-10 champs.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Unlike the first fight, where it was close but Mosley clearly won, this was just a travesty. de la Hoya beat Mr. Third Person EASILY.

I'm guessing a third fight will happen, in order to determine a real winner. Too bad boxing couldn't have iron man matches.



"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
DrewDewce
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.75
Will the replay be on HBO or Showtime??



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Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.36
    Originally posted by DrewDewce
    Will the replay be on HBO or Showtime??


HBO.

Speaking of networks, in its attempts to defend the judges' decision, ESPN has IMHO brought spinning to a new level. The reporters at ESPN have repeatedly pointed out that Mosley landed a higher percentage of the power punches that he threw, a pretty much meaningless stat when one considers that de la Hoya, while having a lower connect percentage, actually landed more power shots, in addition to landing many more jabs.

In the post-fight interview in the ring, and again at the post-fight press conference, de la Hoya announced his intentions to submit an offcial protest and to launch his own investigation into the decision. Max Kellerman on ESPN expressed the hope that come Monday morning de la Hoya will decide to forgo his planned investigation and let the decision lay. I'm sure that most within the sport of boxing share this sentiment. Why, you may ask, wouldn't boxing, if it has nothing to hide, welcome such an investigation? Well, this is just my opinion, of course, but I think that boxing is petrified of the outcome of such an investigation into how, not just this fight, but all professional boxing matches are judged. No, I'm not talking about conspiracies against certain fighters or promoters. I'm not referring to judges receiving bribes or being subject to extortion. I'm talking about something much worse, that no one within professional boxing wants to admit. And that something is that judging a professional boxing match is a completely, 100% subjective task. It all comes down to opinion. Boxer A landed more punches? Well, Boxer B landed the harder punches. Or maybe his punches had a more devestating effect on Boxer A than Boxer A's punches had on him. Or maybe Boxer B exerted more ring generalship. It's all subjective. In fact, judging professional boxing is perhaps the most subjective of all sports that use judges to determine a winner. At least figure skating and gymnastics (to take but two examples) require that certain norms be met in a performance in order to receive a certain mark. Pro boxing has no such requirements; in fact, one of the great stories of boxing lore regards the night that Willie Pep won a round without landing a single punch (eastsideboxing.com) .

So the fact is that judging a pro boxing match can be akin to judging ice cream flavors; it's all in the eye of the beholder. Again, this is just my opinion, but I'd bet good money that those who make their living off the sport of pro boxing would rather have people think that their judging is possibly corrupt or occasionally incompetent than face the public relations disater of admitting that its judging has all the validity of tossing a coin to determine who won.




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Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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#7 Posted on
I was watching the fight with some friends, and we too were shocked at the decision. The judges should have to explain themeselves.

George Foreman was pretty pissed off afterwards, and for big George to get pissed off, you gotta figure something was wrong.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

After the fight, ESPN radio had Bert Sugar and Lennox Lewis on and both said Mosley won easily.

I think the judges voting is so close (7 rounds to Shane, 5 to Oscar) that all the hue and cry seems overblown to me.




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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#9 Posted on
Did you watch the fight, Mark? I can't believe a sane person, let alone three, would say Oscar lost SEVEN rounds of the fight, especially the last four. After round 10 we all agreed the Oscar had gotten the final round he needed to have the fight in the bag.

I DID think Max and Brian brought up an interesting point on ESPN in that a fight looks different in person than on TV, but it sure seemed like Oscar clearly won to me.



Washington Huskies, 1-1. USC didn't look THAT great after the first quarter, so I'm more optimistic that they'll be the 2003 Pac-10 champs.
J.T. Dutch
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Since: 3.1.02
From: SoCal 4 Life

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#10 Posted on
My thoughts on the fight -- I felt it was an over-cautious affair, definitely not for the fan who looks for knockdowns and all-out offense. I didn't mind it, but I thought both fighters could have given more ... especially Mosley.

I had Mosley winning though, 115-114, for two reasons -- first off, Mosley clearly shook De La Hoya on at least two seperate occasions while De La Hoya didn't hurt Mosley at all, and secondly, I thought De La Hoya wasn't in shape and wilted during the last four rounds.

The CompuBox, or whatever they used to judge the quantity and quality of punches thrown, has only served to confuse boxing fans and reporters in my opinion. If Mosley is doing more to rattle his opponent, to punish his opponent, then it's misleading to say that De La Hoya landed more "power punches" than Mosley did. Mosley was more aggressive and effective, punch for punch, than De La Hoya was -- and that's something that CompuBox can't measure.

I thought that the HBO announcers were tremendously biased toward De La Hoya, and that's not a surprising fact when you realize where HBO's bread is buttered when it comes to Oscar. But it went pretty damn far when Shane got a pretty good shot on De La Hoya in the 9th and Oscar just pushed back, and all of a sudden Lampley is raising his voice and giving Oscar credit for a left hand counter. That made me stop and say "wait a minute". I think that the commentators swayed a lot of people.

In the end, it's in the eye of the beholder. Some fans will watch a fight for the sweet science alone, where a punch is a punch even if it's a love-tap jab, and I understand and respect that. I'm not that way -- I favor a guy who makes the punches COUNT. If you want to say that this one was a draw, I won't argue with you. But if you looked at that fight objectively and can tell me that De La Hoya won it, then I honestly feel that you're looking at quantity in terms of pure numbers and not quality in terms of aggression and truly taking the fight to the opponent. De La Hoya's style against fighters he cannot easily handle has always been to collect points and coast once he feels he has enough points to win. I don't like that style personally, and I think it's bitten Oscar in the ass twice in his career (this last fight and the Trinidad fight).

In the end it was Oscar's promoter, his promotion, his network, his cash cow ... all his ducks were lined up in a row just the way he wanted them ... and he blew it. The vast majority of those who watched the fight and ALL of the judges agreed that Mosley won the fight. And this public outcry for an investigation only makes him look like a myopic sore loser. De La Hoya has been the beneficiary of some very questionable decisions, first against Pernell Whitaker and then (to a lesser extent) against Ike Quartey. There was no motivation for anyone to do any favors for Mosley in this one, and if De La Hoya truly feels he was wronged, then he has the power to go on another canoe ride with Shane and set things straight. Who would think less of him for doing that? I wouldn't; I'd commend him.





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J.T. Dutch
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Since: 15.1.02
From: Texas

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#11 Posted on
I haven't seen the fight yet, waiting on the replay. But it sorta sounds like Mayorga/Forrest II. Anyway, I'll see for myself later before I go speculatin.

I'm with J.T on this one though. De La Hoya had everything in his favor. Plus he got like 17 million to Mosley's 4.5. I don't have no sympathy for that fool at all.

Having said that, I hope he does protest and maybe help change how fights are scored because it is suspect. If anyone can, he can.



"NOW YOU GET YOUR WHININ ASS OUTTA HERE!!" Sid Vicious after slapping Bret Hart
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#12 Posted on
I took a couple of things from this fight:

1) There is apparently no room left for counter-punchers and defensive fighting in boxing. De La Hoya controlled that fight's pace and style with his movement and defense, but got no credit for that in the later rounds as the judges were swayed by Mosely's mostly ineffective forward movement.

2) Boxing needs to go to a system of showing the scoring round by round. What other sport can you think of where no one knows what the score is while the event is going on? If De La Hoya had been able to see the way the judges were hammering him in the last few rounds, he might have stepped up the agression. The scoring should be available for everyone to see at the beginning of the next round (4th round score comes up at beginning of round 5)



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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Did you watch the fight, Mark? I can't believe a sane person, let alone three, would say Oscar lost SEVEN rounds of the fight, especially the last four. After round 10 we all agreed the Oscar had gotten the final round he needed to have the fight in the bag.

    I DID think Max and Brian brought up an interesting point on ESPN in that a fight looks different in person than on TV, but it sure seemed like Oscar clearly won to me.


No, I didn't.

I have a bunch of theoretical arguments about how this could happen, which I might do later.

Also, I question the validity of Compubox, as boxing seems like a sport that doesn't necessarily lend itself to "sabermetricizing."




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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#14 Posted on
I guess the things that clinched it for me are:

1. Jack and Shane Mosley's behavior in the corner between rounds. Jack was telling his son from rounds 1-8 that he wasn't doing enough and after a couple of rounds Shane was even questioning things in his corner. After round 11, Jack told Shane he had to go out and be the first guy to KO De La Hoya to win the fight.

2. Right after they announced the decision, Mosley had an "I can't believe it" look on his face, the likes of which I hadn't seen since Josh found out Ruben was in the final two (and not him) that one week on "American Idol". Mosley himself expected them to announce that Oscar had won the fight.

I also don't count myself among those who would be swayed by the HBO commentary. Sometimes those guys are WAAAY out there with what they are talking about, especially Larry Merchant and George Foreman.



Washington Huskies, 1-1. USC didn't look THAT great after the first quarter, so I'm more optimistic that they'll be the 2003 Pac-10 champs.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
It was bound to happen sooner or later

Larry Merchant is a racist rat bastard. Everytime he interviews/commentates on a latino fighter (especially one of the lesser known guys), he ALWAYS goes out of his way to bring up how poor his family is/used to be & lists all of the guy's former low-down dirty labor jobs, but never in a "But look how far he's come!" sort of way. It's like he feels the need to share all of that stuff with everyone just because.





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