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The W - Pro Wrestling - David Otunga, A Real Legal Eagle (Page 2)
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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 123 days
Last activity: 15 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.53
Hello. Another law guy here. If it would please the Court, allow me to make you look dumb.
    Originally posted by cmhservices
    Well. That's fine and dandy, but if he wasn't an attorney how could he be listed as one on the IL website- whether in good standing or not.

Unless I missed something written in invisible ink, no one 'cept CRZ was saying Otunga isn't an attorney. And even in CRZ's case, it was just a matter of semantics. The whole point of the discussion is that Otunga could not have won a court case because he is not licensed to practice. I also added to the discussion, and continue to say with complete confidence, that he could not have been a practicing attorney while in law school.

    Just because the license is suspended temporarily doesn't make him not an attorney. And any attorney who says otherwise is an idiot and could probably be disbarred for being so ill-informed.

Now you are just saying words. If you DO know anything about the legal practice, you know how dumb this sounds.

    And then there is the Sidley & Austin thing- if your attorney doesn't know about major national law firms like Sidley, White & Case, Skadden, and others he should go bury his head in the sand and voluntarily hand in his law license. IL verifies Otunga was an attorney at one of the top law firms in the world. 90% of the law school grads each year would kill for such a post (appx $265K starting salary).

It would have been enough to say he worked at Sidley Austin, which is indeed one of the most prestigious law firms in the country. The $265k starting salary hyperbole was unnecessary and is, to me, conclusive proof of your buffoonery. I can tell you right now, without even so much as taking a PEEK at starting salary listings on Vault, xoxohth, ATL, or any other online resource, Sidley's starting salary is almost certainly $160k, just like every other major international law firm.

And of course, whether or not Otunga ever worked for Sidley Austin tells us nothing about whether he's allowed to practice law now, nor does it give us any more reason to believe the WWE.com story is true.

- StingArmy

(edited by StingArmy on 1.2.12 0022)
sweetroll
Cotechino








Since: 23.3.02
From: Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Since last post: 246 days
Last activity: 1 day
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.11
    Originally posted by cmhservices
    Just because the license is suspended temporarily doesn't make him not an attorney. And any attorney who says otherwise is an idiot and could probably be disbarred for being so ill-informed.


Then I guess I'm an idiot. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp: A lawyer can speak on the record in an adversarial proceeding. David Otunga (although in 2007 he could) cannot. David Otunga is not an attorney.

A lawyer can sign pleadings and file them with clerk of court. David Otunga cannot. David Otunga is not an attorney.

A med school graduate without a medical license may have an M.D. from a really fancy med school, but he cannot write you a prescription. He is not a doctor.

    Originally posted by cmhservices
    So if he goes and buys insurance ... he will be returned to full status.


No, he won't. Malpractice insurance is not a requirement of bar admission. Many states list whether members have it to inform potential clients.

    Originally posted by cmhservices
    And then there is the Sidley & Austin thing- if your attorney doesn't know about major national law firms like Sidley, White & Case, Skadden, and others he should go bury his head in the sand and voluntarily hand in his law license. IL verifies Otunga was an attorney at one of the top law firms in the world. 90% of the law school grads each year would kill for such a post (appx $265K starting salary).


Sidley Austin is a prominent global firm. I've heard of it. Who gives a shit? Ivy Law grads typically go to Big Law firms such as Sidley. Your $265K appximation once again shows a complete lack of understanding of the legal community. In fact, a leaked memo shows Otunga (class of 2006) had a starting salary of $160,000 (abovethelaw.com). That's pretty typical of a Harvard grad coming out, whether they're cum laude or bottom 5%.

And do you know what Big Law associates do their first 5-7 years? 70-hour workweeks of doc review and memos. Then, they either sit the partner track (very rare at Big Law post-2008), they blow their brains out, or they say fuck it and risk their job to go on a dating show.

    Originally posted by cmhservices
    Just because some knuckle dragger paid his way into a fourth tier law school and drooled his way through a pass/ fail bar exam is no reason for me to be impressed. Otunga's elite training and resume experience- that I find impressive!

    PS The rebuttal above was to the CRZ post. In all fairness to the attorney mentioned, it was not him who persisted in failing to acknowledge Otunga's status as an attorney (and in fact, an elite attorney).


No, I will persist. He's neither an attorney nor an elite attorney. Not sure why you resorted to so many insults when the tone of this topic did not suggest it. Perhaps if that pass/fail bar exam is so easy, you should enroll in one of those fourth tier law schools. Then, not only could you prepare paperwork for uncontested divorces (as noted on your Google Site; very impressive), you could litigate contested family matters as well! Good luck!





(edited by sweetroll on 31.1.12 2025)

(edited by sweetroll on 31.1.12 2027)

(edited by sweetroll on 31.1.12 2027)
Moss
Kishke








Since: 23.9.10
From: Calgary, AB

Since last post: 184 days
Last activity: 3 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
(deleted by CRZ on 31.1.12 2300)
cmhservices
Chaurice








Since: 29.1.12

Since last post: 908 days
Last activity: 880 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.91
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Going back through this thread, I have been using "David Otunga is a lawyer" and "David Otunga is currently allowed to practice law" as interchangable statements - but obviously, they don't mean the same thing. An unlicensed attorney is still an attorney. Even an ELITE! unlicensed attorney.


I pretty much agree with everything in your post there, even the unquoted parts. And especially the part about #waytomany... LOL.

In any event, this is my last post on this topic, but I will give any readers food for thought about "attorneys".

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/​​aronline/​​FAQ
(par. 2 of name changes: roll of attorneys = bar roll)

If they don't know about the bar roll, and the ceremony of being sworn in to it, they are not real attorneys. Every state requires this- not on the bar roll, not an attorney. On the bar roll- attorney whether suspended or not. Only the Catholic church has as much ceremony ordaining new priests as the bar does in swearing in its new members (remember that the Bar is an ancient guild, like the Masons, fraternities, secret societies, crime families, etc.) you are in it for life and no longer considered a mere mortal. No member would ever consider a suspended attorney to be "not a lawyer" while still on the roll. In fact, the bar has to remind attorneys that their suspended fellows are not to be allowed to do back office law. (you guys can look up the sites yourself under code of professional responsibility, et al.)

Now, sweetroll has claimed to be a member of the NY bar. Most of those members were sworn in in the Appellate Division mere two blocks from the CMH office in midtown and we see the newly minted lawyers every season. Why wouldn't he know this? All the kids who do Florida, DC, and NY bars as a set swear in here (incidentally, the DC bar is a waive in bar, no test necessary). Another thing, an attorney would be very unlikely to gloat that they can do contested divorces. In fact, most attorneys who do uncontested divorces as a main practice would not sully their practice with contested matters (they would refer out for a cut however- that we cannot do). Two totally different beasts.

Uncontested Divorce is an assembly line matter with a flat fee from $199- $750 (attorneys charging $1500 for it usually screw it up- not enough practice at it). And if you ever see the other spouse, they usually thank you for freeing them from a marriage that died years ago (usually both spouses live apart 3 or more years and with new lovers- often with new children too). If you see them in the street afterwards they might buy you lunch and say thank you.

Contested Divorce is a process where the two lawyers fight as much as possible both racking up many tens of thousands in fees until the married couple is reduced to poverty. If you see one of the divorced spouses in the street afterwards you might want to run for your life.

The lawyers who do contested divorce are a special breed rare among lawyers. I think no real lawyer would ever compare the two areas.

In short, "lawyers" on the net may not be lawyers at all. So it makes no sense to continue to argue with them.

And sweetroll didn't know NY doesn't treat driver's license suspensions as non-attorney matters too. That's just weird.

As for StingArmy, that bar roll thing is pretty universal and he seems to acknowledge it. Anyway, he probably missed the part about NY UI hearings being open for non-attorney representation- ie Otunga is legally allowed to represent someone pro bono- whether or not he is a lawyer. But he is committing a crime, whether or not he is an attorney, if he charges a fee ahead of time. They clearly said pro bono, it is very likely that he did so and was legit about it. The blogger has his info about salaries, the NY judges say otherwise in their complaints about their salaries being lower than starting associates. Whether $150 or $250 (the judge's salaries- take it up with them), either way, that's more than the money most law grads make working at McDonalds flipping burgers or stripping:

http://www.nytimes.com/​​2011/​​01/​​09/​​business/​​09law.html

"People like to say there are too many lawyers,” says Prof. Andrew Morriss of the University of Alabama School of Law. “There are too many lawyers who charge $300 an hour. There aren’t too many lawyers who will handle a divorce at a reasonable rate, or handle a bankruptcy at a reasonable rate. But there is no way to be that lawyer and service $150,000 worth of debt.”
http://www.nytimes.com/​​2011/​​12/​​18/​​business/​​for-​​law-​​schools-​​a-​​price-​​to-​​play-​​the-​​abas-​​way.htm

And btw partner-track associates don't do doc review:
http://www.nytimes.com/​​2011/​​05/​​24/​​business/​​24lawyers.html

http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/​​_​​news/​​2011/​​09/​​12/​​7730301-​​lawyer-​​turns-​​topless-​​dancer-​​to-​​pay-​​the-​​bills

Although now that I am reminded of those articles I remember that I feel bad for the Third-tier law students who were suckered into fraudulent deals with schools:

http://www.nytimes.com/​​2011/​​07/​​17/​​business/​​law-​​school-​​economics-​​job-​​market-​​weakens-​​tuition-​​rises.html

http://www.nytimes.com/​​2011/​​05/​​01/​​business/​​law-​​school-​​grants.html

So basically I have to buffer any prior posts with the disclaimer that a good lawyer could spring from any law school. It is the individual not the school. It's just that the third tier really is filled with students who didn't bother to think up other things they can do with their new law licenses. We have thousands and thousands of claimants in need of representation (most employers get reps from Equifax as a free or low cost add on to other services- see our site for links to NYT articles re that mess). But these "lawyers" will sit there and whine how unfair life is that they didn't get the $253k job (or $150K whatever). They turn up their nose at repping unemployment claimants then continue working at their minimum wage Starbucks and McDonalds jobs smug in their status as lawyers. So forgive me for being irritated when I can win the hearing, then win the appeal, but have to stop repping my client at the courthouse door if the employer appeals to the Appellate Division. Yes, by law everyone can only charge if the client wins, so if you stink you'll go broke in short order, and if you win it's a pittance compared to regular legal fees $500 per hour, but come on, it's still gotta be better than minimum wage!?!?

Now isn't that more than enough talk about attorneys to last a lifetime? Shouldn't this forum get back to talking about something civilized, intelligent, acrobatic, and entertaining like pro wrestling?

I thought so.



(edited by cmhservices on 3.2.12 0246)
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.58
    Originally posted by cmhservices

    Now isn't that more than enough talk about attorneys to last a lifetime? Shouldn't this forum get back to talking about something civilized, intelligent, acrobatic, and entertaining like pro wrestling?

    I thought so.


One of the interesting things about pro-wrestling are it's "unwritten rules" that apply to real life situations.

For example, when giving an interview about an opponent, you never just talk down to them or call them a piece of trash. If it turns out you beat them, then you've accomplished nothing because you beat a piece of trash. If they turn out to beat you, then you must really suck because a piece of trash beat you.

I mention this because you've made insulting comments about the intelligence of this forum's posters after being schooled a few times in this thread. I think you've underestimated the level of discussion we have here.

Also, the numerous times a condescending tone has come up regarding people who work at McDonalds or Starbucks (or any other minimum wage job) is really not needed. Unless you've gotten severe food-poisoning or something from one of those places to justify your attitude, it's really just weakening your entire argument because the immaturity weakens you as a speaker.

But who am I to argue with someone who's not a lawyer.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by cmhservices

      Now isn't that more than enough talk about attorneys to last a lifetime? Shouldn't this forum get back to talking about something civilized, intelligent, acrobatic, and entertaining like pro wrestling?

      I thought so.


    One of the interesting things about pro-wrestling are it's "unwritten rules" that apply to real life situations.

    For example, when giving an interview about an opponent, you never just talk down to them or call them a piece of trash. If it turns out you beat them, then you've accomplished nothing because you beat a piece of trash. If they turn out to beat you, then you must really suck because a piece of trash beat you.

    I mention this because you've made insulting comments about the intelligence of this forum's posters after being schooled a few times in this thread. I think you've underestimated the level of discussion we have here.

    Also, the numerous times a condescending tone has come up regarding people who work at McDonalds or Starbucks (or any other minimum wage job) is really not needed. Unless you've gotten severe food-poisoning or something from one of those places to justify your attitude, it's really just weakening your entire argument because the immaturity weakens you as a speaker.

    But who am I to argue with someone who's not a lawyer.


LAWYERED!!!



The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 hours
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
For future reference...
    Originally posted by cmhservices
    Now, sweetroll has claimed to be a member of the NY bar.
...this is where I stopped reading. There's no point investing the time in your "too long; didn't read" reply when you keep showing a level of disrespect that all but begs us to not take you seriously. What was the turn of phrase you used? "ad hominem attack?" Oh, well.



sweetroll
Cotechino








Since: 23.3.02
From: Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Since last post: 246 days
Last activity: 1 day
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.11
This has become exhausting, so this will be my last post.


    Now, sweetroll has claimed to be a member of the NY bar. Most of those members were sworn in in the Appellate Division mere two blocks from the CMH office in midtown and we see the newly minted lawyers every season. Why wouldn't he know this? All the kids who do Florida, DC, and NY bars as a set swear in here.



This is just nonsense. "The kids who do Florida, DC and NY bars as a set" is not a thing. Florida has no reciprocity with any state. New York and DC have reciprocity with many states. That's why many Florida law students take another bar exam immediately after the one here. I took the NY bar the July following my admission in Florida. To gain entry into the DC bar, you write a check. My admissions in DC and NY will be helpful if I ever decide to move.

I was sworn to the NY bar at the Brooklyn division (HOPE THAT COUNTS LOL). I haven't set foot in a NY courtroom since. Although if I were to do so, I would be able to represent clients as an attorney. Because I am one. David Otunga is not.

The irony of the condescension toward McDonald's or Starbucks clients is rich considering those people actually have jobs. Clients seeking your services before the UNEMPLOYMENT COMMISSION do not. I hope you are more kind to those clients than you are to the members (most of them employed, some as lawyers!) on this board.

Not sure how we got to this point. I good-heartedly blame shawnpatrick, whose link to CMH's Google Site (again, very impressive and professional) apparently brought you here.
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