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The W - Baseball - Damon to Yanks
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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.87
This is just plain wrong.

Johnny Damon playing for the Yankees is like peanut butter selling out jelly in favor of mayonnaise.

- StingArmy
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chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2747 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.29
Haha, yes, I feel for the Sox fans. But they had to see this coming sooner or later.

Since I was too impatient to wait for the official word, I made Damon the Yankees' starting centerfielder a week ago in my MVP 2005 baseball game.

The only bad thing I can see coming from this is Damon has to lose the "Jesus" look. It wasn't until he grew out his hair and beard that he became recognizable enough to appear on Saturday Night Live.



Take the plunge. Step into liquid.
dvd shelf // game shelf // top 20 // laird // tv guide //

Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 36 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.82
I think this makes him the first guy from TNA to actually execute a heel turn! B^)
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 539 days
Last activity: 539 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.71
The Red Sox are an organization in disarray. Three 3rd basemen, Zero 1st basemen. Three 2nd basemen, Zero shortstops. No Centerfielder, a Left Fielder that wants to be traded, a Right Fielder who has gone bad ever since getting a long term contract 2 years ago, 1 catcher and a DH. I wouldn't have been crazy about giving Damon 52 for 4, but, if the difference of what they offered really amounts to what they will pay the Rudy Saenez's of the world each year (Saenez is the poster child for N.L. pitcher. Cut by Boston 3 years ago, now they give him 2 million) it is a bad move. The Red Sox might gut their 2004 World Series Champs quicker than the Marlins gutted their 2003 World Series Champs. The days of the Buddy Leroux/Haywood Sullivan/Mrs. Yawkey fiasco appear to be rearing their ugly heads again.



Any complaints about the preceding post can be directed at the time traveling aliens who edited it.
too-old-now
Bockwurst








Since: 7.1.04

Since last post: 1358 days
Last activity: 283 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.49
The Yankees needed to get a leadoff hitter. And they got a pretty darned good one. There are few players who seem to be "can't miss" in NY and I get the feeling Damon is close, as he is fun to watch play. The way he hustles in the outfield to track down everything, makes up for his merely adequate throwing arm.

I like the Yankees getting Myers and Dotel to strengthen the bullpen - Flash Gordon will be missed.

I would have like them to get a quality starter, but the Red Sox got the best one in Beckett.

No disrespect to the White Sox, but if Roger Clemens returns to either the Yankees or the Red Sox, they become the team to beat.
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2901 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
I used to get mad when the Yankees signed another of the big name free agents, but I've come to realize that they completely overpay for people that aren't going to be as good as people think.

Damon's road splits over the last three years were .298/.342/.438, .280/.354/.475, and .254/.322/.383 which is significantly worse than his numbers at Fenway. He's never been a power hitter, and his home run total dropped from 20 in '04 to 10 last year. Plus he's 32 now so his prime shouldn't last through this contract. Damon will probably be pretty good, and he's a definite upgrade over Bernie Williams, but I wouldn't expect him to duplicate his .316 average. I'd say they overpaid, and any team with a budget would have overpaid giving Damon a 4/52 contract, but the Yanks budget is limitless so they can pretty much eat a ton of these contracts.

Personally, I think the Dotel and Farnsworth signings were a lot more important to the Yanks than this will be given that they lost Tom Gordon and don't look to have a great starting staff.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
    Originally posted by too-old-now
    The Yankees needed to get a leadoff hitter. And they got a pretty darned good one. There are few players who seem to be "can't miss" in NY and I get the feeling Damon is close, as he is fun to watch play. The way he hustles in the outfield to track down everything, makes up for his merely adequate throwing arm.

    I like the Yankees getting Myers and Dotel to strengthen the bullpen - Flash Gordon will be missed.

    I would have like them to get a quality starter, but the Red Sox got the best one in Beckett.

    No disrespect to the White Sox, but if Roger Clemens returns to either the Yankees or the Red Sox, they become the team to beat.


Damon definitely helps them, but I have to think they would have been better served spending that cash on Kevin Millwood, since they still have a rather shaky rotation. And while Clemens would be a good addition, the last two years in the AL he had an average ERA of about 4.15 or so. If Clemens wanted to really make an impact on someone by moving, he should go to the Mets. Them he could push over the hump in the NL. But in the AL, I don't see him being nearly as dominant.
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    ...Farnsworth signings were a lot more important t...



*giggle*





Can you touch a rainbow? Can you put the wind in your pocket? No! Such is Neifi!

TheMark 9.6.05 2227.30 - 9.6.05 2242.29. Gone, but not forgotten.
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2901 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
      Originally posted by BigSteve
      ...Farnsworth signings were a lot more important t...



    *giggle*




Touche.

My point is that while Johnny Damon does improve the woeful Centerfield production the Yanks had last year, they're still the second best offensive team without getting him. Now with Damon and with Boston losing him, New York is probably the best offensive team in the league, but it's only a matter of going from great to "greater."

The Yanks obvious need was pitching. Last year their starting staff was a bunch of declining vets (Mussina, Johnson, Brown, and Leiter), overpaid and underperforming guys (Pavano and Wright), and a few surprises that may or may not hold up (Wang, Small, and Chacon). Is that going to be anything near a great rotation next year? I can't imagine it would be which means the Yankees need to have a good bullpen to hold leads the starters give them after six. Losing Gordon was a huge blow considering how well he pitched last year, but Farnsworth and Dotel could definately combine to give them a good setup combo.

I don't think that Farnsworth is objectively better than Damon or anything, but he fills a more pressing need than Damon if he is as good as he was last year.
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.81
Damon is making a perfectly reasonable salary. Is $13 mil a year overpaid? Look at Furcal making the same thing. Can anyone honestly say they'd rather have a Furcal or a Millwood or a Washburn or a Burnett. Those names are not in the same category as a Damon. You have to calculate the new post-Burnett inflation. Everyone's value went up this offseason. The Red Sox lowballed him at $40 for 4 and it backfired on them.

The new lineup looks like: Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, Posada, Cano, B.Williams. They should lead the majors in runs scored anyway you arrange it.

I'd rather have Farnsworth than Gordon. He's getting paid less, yet is worth more...he throws in the high 90's and is around 10 years younger. the Phils were way desperate after Wagner bailed. Dotel is filthy when healthy, Myers is a solid LOOG (lefty one out guy). They've got plenty of pitching.

What does Boston do now? Without Damon they can't afford to trade a major run producer like Manny. At center they can try to trade for J.Reed or C.Crisp, but their value just went up too. They are best off waiting a year and overpaying for A.Jones at $20 per.
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 67 days
Last activity: 6 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
Wang will hold up as long as he doesn't become one of those guys who gets injured every single season, which is my primary concern. As for Chacon, I felt he was underrated before the Yankee pick-up, considering he pitched home games at Coors field and had dismal run support.

Big Steve, you have a sound theory, but what you've left out of this whole equation is the potential (imminent?) loss of Manny Ramirez. If they do manage to work out a trade for him, that leaves a BIG gap in their offense. So, in retrospect, losing Damon could be a lot more damaging than it would appear to be now.

Speaking of Manny...yes, $13 million for Damon is kind of high, but in dealing Manny they'll free up (after whatever they'll have to eat in payroll for whomever they acquire) $22 million. Financially, they could've easily afforded to give him another $5.5 million to beat out the Yanks' offer, even if they did have to offer Damon 4 years.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 21.12.05 2051)



Live long and
be fabulous.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 539 days
Last activity: 539 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.71
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    Damon is making a perfectly reasonable salary. Is $13 mil a year overpaid? Look at Furcal making the same thing. Can anyone honestly say they'd rather have a Furcal or a Millwood or a Washburn or a Burnett. Those names are not in the same category as a Damon. You have to calculate the new post-Burnett inflation. Everyone's value went up this offseason. The Red Sox lowballed him at $40 for 4 and it backfired on them.

    The new lineup looks like: Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, Posada, Cano, B.Williams. They should lead the majors in runs scored anyway you arrange it.

    I'd rather have Farnsworth than Gordon. He's getting paid less, yet is worth more...he throws in the high 90's and is around 10 years younger. the Phils were way desperate after Wagner bailed. Dotel is filthy when healthy, Myers is a solid LOOG (lefty one out guy). They've got plenty of pitching.

    What does Boston do now? Without Damon they can't afford to trade a major run producer like Manny. At center they can try to trade for J.Reed or C.Crisp, but their value just went up too. They are best off waiting a year and overpaying for A.Jones at $20 per.






I think Bernie will probably be a twice a week DH, as, with the improved firepower in his line-up Torre will go with whoever the defensive 1st baseman is and DH Giambi as much as possible. Why screw with the defense if you are going to get 5-6 runs most nights anyway?
The signing of Dotel doesn't impress me, as the history with post-Tommy John guys is it's the year after they return from surgery when they are back, not the year they come back from the surgery.
Farnsworth is a poor man's Mark Wohlers. Gordon sucked in the post-season, but he was generally dependable from April through August.
Myers is a big signing, as it is a weapon against Ortiz while taking away a potetial weapon against Damon, Giambi or Matsui. Funny how the Red Sox stated they wouldn't keep Myers because they couldn't keep him and the great Chad Bradford, then they non-tender Bradford 2 weeks later. Organization in disarray.
In regards to Damon's road splits, he has hit well in Yankee Stadium in the regular season while in Boston. I would be concerned that outside of Game 7 against the Yankees in '04, he did struggle in the post-season while in Boston.
As for the Red Sox trading Manny: That seems to be Lucchino's purpose in life. If they trade him, they will have a worse offense than Tampa.



Any complaints about the preceding post can be directed at the time traveling aliens who edited it.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46

    This is just plain wrong.

    Johnny Damon playing for the Yankees is like peanut butter selling out jelly in favor of mayonnaise.



How do you think I feel about the prospect of perhaps having to CHEER for Damon?

That's like hoping to get cancer to THIS Yankees fan.

(edited by StaggerLee on 21.12.05 2118)
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 6 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.69
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    How do you think I feel about the prospect of perhaps having to CHEER for Damon?

    That's like hoping to get cancer to THIS Yankees fan.


If cancer had won the World Series a couple of years ago, I'm sure George would shell out $6 mil/year for it himself.



"You know what you need?
Some new quotes in your sig.
Yeah, I said it."
-- DJFrostyFreeze

BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2901 days
Last activity: 2629 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by Skorpio
    Damon is making a perfectly reasonable salary. Is $13 mil a year overpaid? Look at Furcal making the same thing. Can anyone honestly say they'd rather have a Furcal or a Millwood or a Washburn or a Burnett. Those names are not in the same category as a Damon. You have to calculate the new post-Burnett inflation. Everyone's value went up this offseason. The Red Sox lowballed him at $40 for 4 and it backfired on them.



I'd rather have Damon than Washburn (don't know what Seattle was thinking when they should have targeted Millwood for a few bucks more) at their respective salaries, and I'd prefer Damon to Furcal at twice what Damon is making, but the other two not so much. If Millwood gets 4/52, well, he was the AL ERA leader, and his upside is a number two which is more valuable than Damon's best case scenario. I think he'll be overpaid, but he's preferable to Damon. Burnett is an improving pitcher just entering his prime, coming off his best season ever, and many people will tell you he's an ace in the making. Granted, he could be a spectacular bust ala Darren Dreifort or Chan Ho Park at that price tag, but I think he was the premier guy on the market and got a "fair deal."

    Originally posted by Deputy
    Big Steve, you have a sound theory, but what you've left out of this whole equation is the potential (imminent?) loss of Manny Ramirez. If they do manage to work out a trade for him, that leaves a BIG gap in their offense. So, in retrospect, losing Damon could be a lot more damaging than it would appear to be now.



You're right. I think that this is more likely to hurt the Sox (and help the Yankees indirectly) than it is to vastly improve New York. Still, I wouldn't expect Ramirez to go for prospects. Given that he has, I think, three more years left on his deal, I'd think that if they trade him it's for a comparable (though probably lesser) run producer or a frontline starter. But then who knows what could happen with Manny being involved.

    Originally posted by RSN
    In regards to Damon's road splits, he has hit well in Yankee Stadium in the regular season while in Boston.


Well, he hit a .284 with 3 HR there over his four years in Boston put him in line with his aggregate road production over the last three years. Not bad or anything, but hardly something that would encourage me to give him $13M a year. I'd still expect his numbers to be in the same range as the last few years, but he's still only the sixth best hitter on the Yanks (which speaks to their depth rather than being a knock on him).
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
    Originally posted by BigSteve
      Originally posted by Whitebacon
        Originally posted by BigSteve
        ...Farnsworth signings were a lot more important t...



      *giggle*




    Touche.

    My point is that while Johnny Damon does improve the woeful Centerfield production the Yanks had last year, they're still the second best offensive team without getting him. Now with Damon and with Boston losing him, New York is probably the best offensive team in the league, but it's only a matter of going from great to "greater."

    The Yanks obvious need was pitching. Last year their starting staff was a bunch of declining vets (Mussina, Johnson, Brown, and Leiter), overpaid and underperforming guys (Pavano and Wright), and a few surprises that may or may not hold up (Wang, Small, and Chacon). Is that going to be anything near a great rotation next year? I can't imagine it would be which means the Yankees need to have a good bullpen to hold leads the starters give them after six. Losing Gordon was a huge blow considering how well he pitched last year, but Farnsworth and Dotel could definately combine to give them a good setup combo.

    I don't think that Farnsworth is objectively better than Damon or anything, but he fills a more pressing need than Damon if he is as good as he was last year.


What I'm saying is that The Farns is a guy that loves the nightlife and will not come through in key situations for you. He's a headcase, the classic million dollar arm, ten cent head type of guy.



Can you touch a rainbow? Can you put the wind in your pocket? No! Such is Neifi!

TheMark 9.6.05 2227.30 - 9.6.05 2242.29. Gone, but not forgotten.
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84

I think the issue with Damon is what kind of player will he be in the second half of the contract? He will be 35 and 36 for the second half and paying him $13 million per year will be overpaying at that point. That is the Yankee advantage, though. They can pay someone more than they are worth (over the life of the contract) since they have that much more payroll flexibility. That's not to say the Red Sox don't have that same flexibility. They do. They are choosing not to spend it in this fashion. They did the same thing with Pedro.

I think Damon is somewhat over-rated and his skills will diminish over the next four years, plus he will be out of the more hitter friendly environs of the Fens. The Yankees will get an above average hitter and a below average arm in center.







Gabba gabba hey!
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
Could this be one of baseball's biggest heel turns EVER?

This is like Austin hugging Vince McMahon in the Astrodome. Nobody was wanting it to happen, but it did and we were forced to deal with it.

Why Johnny Why?
FurryHippie
Frankfurter








Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.60
I'm from New York. I don't particularly like the Yankees, but I hate the Red Sox (a given). That said, I always thought Damon was pretty talented, and seems like an awesome guy. He's the one dude on the entire Red Sox team that I always rooted for. It does seem weird to have him coming over here (like Pedro to the Mets), but he should bring some class on over to NY. How much class we need is up for debate in another thread.
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 158 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.78
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    If cancer had won the World Series a couple of years ago, I'm sure George would shell out $6 mil/year for it himself.
Which makes it all the more suprising that he didn't make things happen with Beckett.

It's funny, I hear more people having problems with Damon's contract than I do with BJ Ryan's or Tom Gordon's. Albeit, Ryan is younger, but Damon is more of a proven commodity, and the Yanks just paid the going rate. Every year, there is one guy who sets an insane contract standard. Last year it was Benson's contract, and this year it is Furcal's and Ryans's. I would have thought this year's loser contract would have been Loaiza's deal with the A's - inSANE.

Projected Yanks lineup: Damon, Jeter, Rodriguez, Sheffield, Matsui, Giambi, Posada, Phillips/Williams, Cano.

Projected Yanks pitchers: Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Chacon, Wang, Small, Wright, Sturtze, Myers, Leiter/Proctor, Dotel (whenever), Farnsworth, Rivera

I know that the Yanks have pitching concerns. Johnson is a year older, Pavano had a horrible year before getting injured. Wang was hurt last year. Mussina was inconsistant again. Chacon and Small - can they duplicate? Randy is the key this year, just like last year. They need him pitching as he did in the second half of last season. If he, Mussina, and Pavano are healthy, why just assume they will suck? Are those "ifs" that mighty? Wang came back and pitched pretty well - the guy IS a #5 starter. Chacon came out of nowhere/Denver, but was consistantly solid. To me, there aren't many solid 1-5 rotations in the AL outside of Chicago, and they all have health concerns. Will Halladay, Schilling, and Colon all bounce back? The bullpen has questions too, like last year. Gordon was steady but not great, and Farnsworth should at least be able to come close to anything Gordon did in NY. If Wright is healthy, he and Small should solidify middle relief (and spot-starting), and if they bring back Leiter, he and Myers will give them arms from the left side which are a far cry from Embree, Groom, Stanton, and Wayne Franklin.

I don't think the Yanks could have made a move on Millwood. Whose place does he take, and what do you do with whoever he replaces? Why would they put Millwood in Wang's or Chacon's place? How is he better than either at the money they'd have to pay him? If he takes Pavano's place, who'll take Pavano? Millwood replace Mussina or Johnson? Um, no. Getting Damon filled their last gaping void. I could see them picking up a DH-type (Thomas, Sosa, Millar, Durazo, Burnitz), since they haven't brought back Sierra (yet) and Bernie will only be P/T. All in all, the Yanks look more solid than last year....to me, anyway.



"Johnny Damon playing for the Yankees is like peanut butter selling out jelly in favor of mayonnaise." - StingArmy
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