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The W - Baseball - Cubskis (Page 2)
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thecubsfan
Scrapple
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#21 Posted on
The thing I forget to mention was that the alternatvies for SS were something like Neifi Perez, Rey Sanchez or Royce Clayton and those possiblities are scary enough to keep me up at nights.

There's been talk about moving Trammell and Lankford, so I'd guess someone goes. Henderson is a free agent and it seemed like they'd prefer to have him retire or at least just go away, so I bet he'll show up on another team too.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 304 days
Last activity: 298 days
#22 Posted on

Said thecubsfan:

"With any luck, the lineup should work something like this...

2B Delino (maybe sometimes CF Patterson)
3B Mueller
RF Sosa
1B McGriff
LF ALOU I hope
C the Todd Hundley that doesn't blow I hope
CF Michael Tucker (or Delino would move down here)
SS Alex Gonzalez
P"

Not bad, I'd like to see Knoblauch in center leading off, with Delino dropping to eighth, Gonzalez seventh.

DO NOT TRADE LEIBER!





***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***

Abmulabmu
Cotto








Since: 10.12.01

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.56
Wait a minute, you'd LIKE to see Knoblauch in center and leading off? Why? I'd rather see the reanimated corpse of Jerome Walton playing center and leading off than Chuck "Sucks" Knoblauch. Right Cubs? Am I right? He's really bad!





Helen Keller was largely useless, and look how we remember her.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#24 Posted on
Playing the OBP game (and ignoring that Chuck hasn't actually played CF for any length of time), let's compare!

2001
Tucker .332
Knoblauch .339
DeShields .344 (.380 after joining the Cubs)
(Patterson .266 in limited duty)
(Young .333)

We kept Delino (which, if he can keep up those Cub numbers for a full season, seems perfectly great for a 2B/leadoff man) and we're stuck with Tucker for a while. Given what they have and are stuck with, there's better ways to spend the money (a utility middle infielder who's better than Ojeda is one.)

As I write this, ChiTrib reports that Alou's been offered a deal in the $9 mil for 3 years range (Alou originally wanted 10, Cubs wanted 8, so it's in between) so it looks like he might get around and that lineup could be scary if we get people on, so you want the best OBP up top as possible. (Mueller had a .400 OBP last year, wow.)

Knoblauch is really really close to signing with KC so this whole discussion may be moot by the time someone reads it.

Starting rotation looks like:

Leiber
Wood
Bere
Cruz (unless he really sucks in Spring Training)
20 Man Battle Royale for this spot.

The guy they traded over from Florida might have the inside shot, because he's the only lefty among contention (Zambrano? Borowski? Tavarez?)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 304 days
Last activity: 298 days
#25 Posted on

said thecubsfan:
"there's better ways to spend the money (a utility middle infielder who's better than Ojeda is one.)"

AAH! They HAD one with Miguel Cairo except: a. he really doesn't play shortstop and b. the Cubs had to waive him and Matthews when no-cut Hundley came back from the minors. Did you notice Hundley really smacking the ball from the right side the few times he tried late last season? Reminds me of Bowa all over again.

Bill Mueller is the #2 hitter Mark Grace never was and could/should have been. Don't trade him either.

I wish they could keep Coomer and Stairs both. We called them the "keggers", they looked like guys who played better the more trips to the keg they made.







***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***

SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1297 days
Last activity: 632 days
AIM:  
#26 Posted on
>>Bill Mueller is the #2 hitter Mark Grace never was and could/should have been. Don't trade him either.<<

If they had batted Mark Grace number two he would've been fine. They didn't. What's your point, because if it's that Grace was somehow a failure as a No. 2 hitter, that's because he didn't bat second.

>>I wish they could keep Coomer and Stairs both. We called them the "keggers", they looked like guys who played better the more trips to the keg they made.<<

Keeping two fat guys that are wastes in the field and mediocre batters, that's a fine way to suck. But I do like Stairs because he's short and fat. Coomer blows.

And your desire to have Chuck Knoblauch playing center field is questionable. Do you LIKE the Cubs or not? They'd be better off letting Corey Patterson get some at-bats than wasting on time on Chuck Knoblauch, who was eaten alive by the Yankee Freefall that so many others have experienced. I don't know what you accomplish by having Delino DeShields and Chuck Knoblauch on the same team.



Scott Christ
Bring me Marty Cordova.

Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 12 hours
AIM:  
#27 Posted on

This appears to be moot...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2001/1218/1297683.html

Chuck is in KC. Wow.

Didn't Kansas City stop playing baseball back 8 or 9 years ago?



I love it when a plan comes together
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#28 Posted on
Cairo and Matthews were the victims of the Herida standoff and the Patterson "we won't use him but we'll keep him on the roster so we can not use him in the playoffs" dealio. That wasn't the high point of the season.

Coomer was offered aribitaration, so he could be back next year.

They want to get Alou's contract done by the end of the day, so maybe they'll be some definte word in the next few hours?

I take it guru isn't a big Rob Neyer fan or he'd know more about the Royals than he'd ever want too.



.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 304 days
Last activity: 298 days
#29 Posted on


1. Mark Grace couldn't bat #2 because he was quite possibly the worst left handed batter in the game in advancing baserunners. Grounding out to second or flying out to short left field doesn't get the job done. That's one of the worst kept secrets in baseball. Everyone from Gammons to Bill James has commented on this.

2. Coomer was, at points in the season, a very clutch hitter for the Cubs. He's a rotten fielder though, and would be better set in the AL.

3. Patterson is not ready for the job right now, and Knoblauch would more than likely improve away from New York. A chuck about halfway between his Twin and Yankee numbers would be OK in the short term, yes.


Originally posted by ScottieKStones
>>Bill Mueller is the #2 hitter Mark Grace never was and could/should have been. Don't trade him either.<<

If they had batted Mark Grace number two he would've been fine. They didn't. What's your point, because if it's that Grace was somehow a failure as a No. 2 hitter, that's because he didn't bat second.

>>I wish they could keep Coomer and Stairs both. We called them the "keggers", they looked like guys who played better the more trips to the keg they made.<<

Keeping two fat guys that are wastes in the field and mediocre batters, that's a fine way to suck. But I do like Stairs because he's short and fat. Coomer blows.

And your desire to have Chuck Knoblauch playing center field is questionable. Do you LIKE the Cubs or not? They'd be better off letting Corey Patterson get some at-bats than wasting on time on Chuck Knoblauch, who was eaten alive by the Yankee Freefall that so many others have experienced. I don't know what you accomplish by having Delino DeShields and Chuck Knoblauch on the same team.



Scott Christ
Bring me Marty Cordova.






***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***

pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
Cubs, I have been a Royals fan since their inception in 1969 and they haven't played much baseball in the last few years. Back in the old days of Freddie Patek, Amos Otis and Paul Splittorff this would not have happened!

And am a disciple of Rob Neyer. Have all the books (even the new Feeding the Green Monster, which I like but others have panned). I preach the gospel according to Neyer wherever I can - which explains my rant in the other thread about how crappy I think Alex Gonzalez is.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 12 hours
AIM:  
#31 Posted on

Neyer is the guy that desperately wants me to quote OPS numbers at you guys, right?



I love it when a plan comes together
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#32 Posted on
Bill James is the guy with the numbers and the Abstracts and so forth. Neyer is his disciple, except I don't believe his face was broken in a parasailing incident.

ANYWAY, ESPN Radio 1000 in Chicago reported that, assuming all is normal with a physical tommorow, Alou's signing with the Cubs will be announced. Same numbers we mentioned up there: 3 years at $9mil, with incentives up to another $1 mil.

The intersting tidbit to all of this is that they also said that OF Michael Tucker (who was picked up from the Reds last season with some misguided belief that he could hit decently) will be dealt to one of a few teams, maybe the Royals for Jeff Suppan (sorry Pieman.) Tucker's signed for two more years at around $4 mil each (way too much), so I guess they've moving to make up the room for Alou. White was going to get just under $5 mil so that sounds right.

So, the side effect to getting a really good #5 hitter is that Don Baylor will be forced by the roster to play Corey Patterson full time in CF and give OF Rosovelt Brown an actual chance at being the 4th outfielder, two things he sure didn't want to do last season.

The best comment about the whole Alou dealio was some woman wishing that Alou came, and brought his dad with him.



.
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
I think Alou will be a godd fit with the Cubs. I think he's still got a lot left.

As for Tucker for Suppan. That sounds very Royals-like. We like to get back all the stiffs we once had. Not that Suppan is any great shakes, but Tucker wouldn't help at all.





He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1297 days
Last activity: 632 days
AIM:  
#34 Posted on


Delino DeShields will give you something between Knoblauch's old numbers and new numbers. Why bother with Knoblauch? The argument's moot now anyway.

Mark Grace wasn't a two-hitter because he, uh, isn't a two-hitter. Big deal. I would never want to have Mark Grace hitting second for me, because he's not fit for it. Blaming him for being a bad two-hitter is like when people bitch about Brian Jordan sucking because he's not Ken Griffey Jr. It's like, dudes, you can't expect more than he is and then complain that he's not what he just isn't. Know what I mean?



Scott Christ
Bring me Marty Cordova.

Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 304 days
Last activity: 298 days
#35 Posted on

Originally posted by ScottieKStones


Mark Grace wasn't a two-hitter because he, uh, isn't a two-hitter. Big deal. I would never want to have Mark Grace hitting second for me, because he's not fit for it. Blaming him for being a bad two-hitter is like when people bitch about Brian Jordan sucking because he's not Ken Griffey Jr. It's like, dudes, you can't expect more than he is and then complain that he's not what he just isn't. Know what I mean?



Scott Christ
Bring me Marty Cordova.




What I would have expected over the years from a left-handed singles hitter was the ability to put runners over. instead, the Cubs stuck with a first baseman that hit like a shortstop while other, more successful teams had power hitting RBI men.




***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***

SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1297 days
Last activity: 632 days
AIM:  
#36 Posted on


Mark Grace hit the most doubles of any hitter over the entire decade of the 1990s. He's a doubles-hitter, not a singles-hitter. And he's slow, so you don't necessarily want him batting second. I mean, slow slow. He's best off hitting sixth in a lineup, but the Cubs never had much in the way of a total lineup, so often he was stuck hitting third/fourth/fifth, which was not a terrible great fit for him either.

The Diamondbacks had the players to allow him to hit sixth or seventh, where he did some good. But I don't get why you're bitching about a Gold Glove first baseman that hits .300 or close to it every season, so I guess I don't get your problem with Mark Grace at all.



Scott Christ
Bring me Marty Cordova.

The Genius
Loukanika








Since: 10.12.01
From: New York

Since last post: 2637 days
Last activity: 266 days
#37 Posted on
But Coomer is nowhere near a good enough hitter to be a DH. He's a lovely spare part, but he's probably better-suited to a National League team where he'd get more chances to pinch-hit.

And I thought Tucker was locked in at like 2.75, not 4 million.



Bitching about Grace is like bitching about Mueller. Or bitching about putting Knoblauch in the outfield, for that matter. The Giants hated Mueller because despite a steady bat and good defense, he never provided the power The Book says you need from a third baseman. Nevermind that the Giants got more power from SS and 2B than the Book accounts for. And I forget which ESPN midget bashed the Yankees for 'ruining' Knoblauch's value as a major leaguer by making him an outfielder when he didn't have the power to hold down a corner spot. Argh.




The "" Genius

(edited by The Genius on 20.12.01 1515)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 304 days
Last activity: 298 days
#38 Posted on

Generally what I want out of a first baseman is power and production. The Cubs were able to get away with Grace for awhile since they had a second baseman hitting that way for awhile. (Remember that not all 2B hit 40 HR like they do now).

Grace hits well when he is aggressive at the plate and pulls the ball. But he doesn't always do that...he gets two strikes and slaps the ball into popups and easy double plays. Plus, he has absolutely no line drive hitting ability the other way. Mueller does that pretty well. Grace more often than not popped up weakly to left field, and smart teams knew exactly where to place him.

His bomb of a home run in the series proved the point. He always COULD have hit 25 HR in a season, but settled for less. Just like my Cubs. (sigh)





***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***

thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#39 Posted on
Coomer...rejected arbititration. The Cubs have till 1/9 to make a deal with him or let him go, but assuming that he rejected it becaus he didn't want a one year deal (and there's no real good reason to give him a longer deal), I'm guessing he won't be back. They're inviting enough spare part infielders to SpringTraining, so they can get someone cheaper and shorter term. Coomer will find someplace to play - the novelty of being able to back up at third and first will appeal to someone trying to save a space on their roster.

Mark Grace...doesn't play here anymore. It took me much time to get over that fact, please don't bring it back. He's gone...

I caught MacPhail on the radio and it sounded like, besides looking for a little more depth in the bench and AAA (the always entertaining fifth outfielder questions and the passionate "11 pitchers and 14 batters or 12 pitchers and 13 batters" arguement.)



.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 304 days
Last activity: 298 days
#40 Posted on

Just don't let Baylor bring back Todd Dunwoody.



***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***

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Indeed they were. There were also guys in the crowd peeling off T-Shirts as he got each K to list out the number on their chests. The ones digit guy must have been pretty hot at the beginning of the night - he went through 8 shirts.
- Guru Zim, 4000 Ks for Big Unit... (2004)
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