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26.10.14 0023
The W - Pro Wrestling - Competition and the future of wrestling
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AJ_Levy
Mettwurst








Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3873 days
Last activity: 3869 days
#1 Posted on
Okay, I'm going to ask a very broad question here, or more specifically, few related questions.

The first is to do with competition in pro wrestling. The last 2 years have presented the WWF with some absolutely tremendous opportunities, and for the msot part they've dropped the ball. Given this, you wonder how well the WWF will perform without competition in the medium and long term, given that the mid '90s, when the competition between the WWF and WCW was the tightest, gave us some of the best angles and innovations in history.

What I mean by dropped the ball is this: they had the opportunity to fold the WWF hardcore division into ECW. Throughout the late '90s, the penultimate wrestling fans dream was Goldberg comming to the WWF and the dream matches it would create (eg, against Jerricho, Triple H, Austin). The ultimate would be an all out WCW vs WWF war with all the WCW stars going head to head with the WWF stars. Having picked up the WCW for less than $10m apparently, they could have afforded to give wrestling fans excellent top to bottom cards and some great feuds on PPV. And really, they dropped the ball.

Sure, Wrestlemania was great this year, but consider an alternative card that could have included:
Goldberg Vs Austin
McMahon Vs Bischoff
Rock Vs Hogan
Sting Vs say, Kane
...really, they dropped the ball.

You could equate part of the reason why they didn't to the fact that there is just no competition. So will there be a competitor to the WWF over the horizon, or is the WWF destined to eventually have a worldwide monopoly on pro wrestling?

And the second area relates to a future competitor to the WWF. If you were building a competing fed., how would you present it so that it is distinct from the WWF and innovative enough to raise the bar? Some suggestions might be an upmarket 'smark' wrestling federation that concentrates on how well the wrestlers can sell, or a federation with no clear cut heels and faces so every match has a split crowd like Hogan vs Warrior. Or one that concentrates more on long term storylines and history.

And my final question is, in the medium and long term, is pro wrestling here to stay or is it a doomed pop culture fad that will be killed by its own success?
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dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 5 min.
#2 Posted on
    Originally posted by AJ_Levy
    Okay, I'm going to ask a very broad question here, or more specifically, few related questions.

    Sure, Wrestlemania was great this year, but consider an alternative card that could have included:

    Goldberg Vs Austin

    McMahon Vs Bischoff

    Rock Vs Hogan

    Sting Vs say, Kane

    ...really, they dropped the ball.

    You could equate part of the reason why they didn't to the fact that there is just no competition. So will there be a competitor to the WWF over the horizon, or is the WWF destined to eventually have a worldwide monopoly on pro wrestling?

    And the second area relates to a future competitor to the WWF. If you were building a competing fed., how would you present it so that it is distinct from the WWF and innovative enough to raise the bar? Some suggestions might be an upmarket 'smark' wrestling federation that concentrates on how well the wrestlers can sell, or a federation with no clear cut heels and faces so every match has a split crowd like Hogan vs Warrior. Or one that concentrates more on long term storylines and history.

    And my final question is, in the medium and long term, is pro wrestling here to stay or is it a doomed pop culture fad that will be killed by its own success?



First,
Goldberg doesn't want to join, Bisschoff doesn't want to join, Sting doesn't want to join.
Cannot blame the WWF on dropping the ball there. (And I am not even talking about actually wanting to see those matches)
They brought in several superstars from WCW who they think can help build the company. Guys like Storm might never be Rock or Angle but are decent upper card guys for years to come.
Now they have screwed some big angles over the years but I don't think that is what you actually asked about..
I dont know if and how i would have handled those better..

Direct competition in the USA? Naah..but they will not monopolize wrestling. Perhaps it will seem that way to the average fan..

Hogan-Warrior was such a hit because they were two faces. No line blurring there.
In fact, to start a new fed you have to start out with the obvious face/heel thing to have people care about your guys AND then bring great wrestling.
I am not sure if you can build it from scratch, you will need to have some names to pull the people to your shows.

Wrestling is around to stay yet just like everything in life and cultures it will go up and down..


(edited by dMp on 10.4.02 1252)
"...And I use that to fuck them some place fairly uncomfortable." "What, like the back of a volkswagen ?" -Mallrats
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst








Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3873 days
Last activity: 3869 days
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by dMp
      Originally posted by AJ_Levy
      Okay, I'm going to ask a very broad question here, or more specifically, few related questions.

      Sure, Wrestlemania was great this year, but consider an alternative card that could have included:

      Goldberg Vs Austin

      McMahon Vs Bischoff

      Rock Vs Hogan

      Sting Vs say, Kane

      ...really, they dropped the ball.

      You could equate part of the reason why they didn't to the fact that there is just no competition. So will there be a competitor to the WWF over the horizon, or is the WWF destined to eventually have a worldwide monopoly on pro wrestling?

      And the second area relates to a future competitor to the WWF. If you were building a competing fed., how would you present it so that it is distinct from the WWF and innovative enough to raise the bar? Some suggestions might be an upmarket 'smark' wrestling federation that concentrates on how well the wrestlers can sell, or a federation with no clear cut heels and faces so every match has a split crowd like Hogan vs Warrior. Or one that concentrates more on long term storylines and history.

      And my final question is, in the medium and long term, is pro wrestling here to stay or is it a doomed pop culture fad that will be killed by its own success?



    First,
    Goldberg doesn't want to join, Bisschoff doesn't want to join, Sting doesn't want to join.
    Cannot blame the WWF on dropping the ball there. (And I am not even talking about actually wanting to see those matches)
    They brought in several superstars from WCW who they think can help build the company. Guys like Storm might never be Rock or Angle but are decent upper card guys for years to come.
    Now they have screwed some big angles over the years but I don't think that is what you actually asked about..
    I dont know if and how i would have handled those better..

    Direct competition in the USA? Naah..but they will not monopolize wrestling. Perhaps it will seem that way to the average fan..

    Hogan-Warrior was such a hit because they were two faces. No line blurring there.
    In fact, to start a new fed you have to start out with the obvious face/heel thing to have people care about your guys AND then bring great wrestling.
    I am not sure if you can build it from scratch, you will need to have some names to pull the people to your shows.

    Wrestling is around to stay yet just like everything in life and cultures it will go up and down..


    (edited by dMp on 10.4.02 1252)



Well I'll re-iterate the usual complaint heard about the Invasion angle: that the "top tier" stars of WCW weren't involved. Since the angle, Vince has bought in Flair, Hall, Nash, and Hogan. Why not have them there from the start?

As far as Sting, Bischoff and Goldberg, the one of the 3 that I could really understand not wanting to join the fed is Sting. Goldberg is sitting on his ass because of, at least in my opinion, the fact he gets money for nothing. If Vince threw enough money at him, he'd sign. And if you look at the matches that I've mentioned and a drawn out feud with Austin and what those matches would mean for buyrates, the guy would be worth every cent (at least in the 1st year).

But there was no real incentive for Vince to spend that money on an angle like that, even if it lost money, because where was the competition?

Meanwhile, the nWo and the WCW Invasion and the Alliance gave the WWF the chance to do soemthing that the world hasn't seen since the early days of the nWo: have a divided crowd. When a guy comes out, haf cheer & half geer. It didn't happen.

For a new fed to get ahead, it would need to do something different. If not the divided crowd, then what do you suggest?

As for building it from scratch, it depends on how you did it. If you had a good TV deal and perhaps hired Michaels, Hart, Savage, Rhodes, Piper, and co. as managers of wrestlers and stables then you probably could...
Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

Since last post: 4028 days
Last activity: 4014 days
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#4 Posted on
a new fed doesn't have to do something tremendously different to catch on, it just has to do something tremendously well.

on the "different" tip though, i think there's at least a niche market for a wrestling show that almost completely breaks kayfabe. imagine a show where there are characters in the ring but the commentators and everything backstage is a shoot, where they openly acknowledge the two workers are cooperating to make the best match they can and so and so has to protect his cracked knee cap while he performs.



It's just you against the group mind.
I like weiners.
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst








Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3873 days
Last activity: 3869 days
#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by Notorious F.A.B.
    a new fed doesn't have to do something tremendously different to catch on, it just has to do something tremendously well.

    on the "different" tip though, i think there's at least a niche market for a wrestling show that almost completely breaks kayfabe. imagine a show where there are characters in the ring but the commentators and everything backstage is a shoot, where they openly acknowledge the two workers are cooperating to make the best match they can and so and so has to protect his cracked knee cap while he performs.



I hinted at this earlier. In fact I'd love to see the reaction to it on something like PBS or another high-brow network. In fact, perhaps have a judging panel that rates them in a number of categories like "stiffness", "difficulty", "selling", "conditioning", etc. And then have the wrestlers ranked.

Either that, or have a high brow wrestling show which features wrestlers whos characters are built around different political groups. So you'd have, say "Steve the Socialist" Vs. "Lenny the Libertarian"...

Another take on pro wrestling is one that is openly a commedy show and has characters based on pop culture icons and skits (think SNL or Mad tv crossed with the WWF).

There's really so much innovation within the bounds of pro wrestling. Some will be good, some won't. But to make an impression it will have to do something better or different, otherwise it just becomes "liek a bush league WWF"
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