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24.10.14 0219
The W - Basketball - Coaching Job Opening in Lexington
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Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
No links really necessary, the news broke yesterday and I've spent most of my time at UK sites and ESPN.com sifting through the rubble.

I know there are a few other UK fans that frequent this site and a good number of SEC and NCAA fans in general. Other than some mild surprise that Tubby goes to Minnesota - leaving 4 years and $10 million on the table - does anyone want to discuss this? In general - I mean the expectations of coaching at one of the "elite" schools, the search for a new coach at UK, whether or not Tubby Smith made a wise decision to leave on his own terms (or even whether or not he actually did leave on his own terms). The UK boards are hostile right now and since there are some good basketball fans around here I was hoping for some decent, civil discussion - if anyone is interested.

(edited by Rudoublesedoublel on 23.3.07 1414)


University of Kentucky basketball isn't a matter of life and death, it's much more important than that.
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redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 480 days
Last activity: 480 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.79
I think Tubby jumped before he got pushed. Kentucky doesn't have the quality of players now that they had during the late Pitino/early Tubby years, and when a football school in your conference becomes a more frequent visitor to the Final Four than Kentucky, change is going to occur. Thad Motta getting lured slightly south perhaps?
Coaching change that still makes no sense is Alford to New Mexico. From appearing to be the heir to the throne in Indiana to leaving a Big 10 school for a Mountain West Conference school in a year is bizarre.
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
Thanks Redsoxnation.

I think that Alford was afraid that he was about to be chased away from Iowa and saw an opportunity at New Mexico for a fresh start. I think he saw the writing on the wall when he wasn't even considered at IU.

I also think that Tubby went to UM to avoid "messiness" at UK. The grapevines seem to think that he was going to be told to fire his assitant coaches and that Tubby didn't want to do that. Minnesota is a chance to start fresh - and if he can do what he has done at Tulsa, UGA, and UK he will have a legacy.

The big knock on Tubby is talent. This year's senior class was probably his downfall. By all accounts, the three guys who stayed (Shagari Alleyne transferred to Manhattan at the end of last year) were all good students, and good guys, but with the exception of Bobby Perry's 20 point explosions in the NCAA tournament games they never developed into more than "cogs" in the system. None of them could carry a team for a period of time.

The juniors were highly touted, but have struggled at various times. Randolph Morris' NBA draft experiment cost him half his sophomore year and he blossomed as a junior. As a perpetual free agent we're holding our breath on him. Joe Crawford and Ramel Bradley can be dynamite, but they can also really struggle.

UK has one sophomore - 7'2" Jared Carter. He was injured last season and will likely be a sophomore next season.

Last year's freshmen were fairly good. Jodie Meeks will be a star. Derrick Jasper needs to work on his shot but was still All-SEC freshman, while Perry Stevenson will get serious minutes next year at PF. Michael Porter will be a good back-up PG in the future.

I'm not hearing much about Matta. Most of the "Internet fan base love" is directed at Billy Donovan or Billy Gillespie with a little left over for Jay Wright. Other feel that Mitch Barnhart has eyes for Tom Crean and Tom Izzo (though fans don't see how their playing style is different from Tubby's). Also seems to be some love for Mike Brey (I pray it's not him) and Mark Few (just don't think he could adjust to the "fish bowl" in Lexington).

No NCs hurt Tubby. The 'Cats were close in 2003, but Dwyane Wade got in our way. The real thing is that the SEC has really improved at basketball so even if UK stayed the same they would gain ground and if UK slipped a little and they improved they really gained ground.



University of Kentucky basketball isn't a matter of life and death, it's much more important than that.
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    No NCs hurt Tubby.


Uh, 1998? Or am I misinterpreting what "NC" stands for?
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 480 days
Last activity: 480 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.79
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    I'm not hearing much about Matta. Most of the "Internet fan base love" is directed at Billy Donovan or Billy Gillespie with a little left over for Jay Wright. Other feel that Mitch Barnhart has eyes for Tom Crean and Tom Izzo (though fans don't see how their playing style is different from Tubby's). Also seems to be some love for Mike Brey (I pray it's not him) and Mark Few (just don't think he could adjust to the "fish bowl" in Lexington).





If Donovan wasn't in the SEC I'd say he was perfect. However, tough to leave a program that you win 1 or 2 National Titles with for another program in the same division of the same conference without becoming exiled from his legacy. Problem with getting Gillespie is that Kentucky can't win a bidding war if A@M wants to keep him. After Harvard and Yale, the school with the largest amount of money is Texas A@M. It sounds unusual, but all the oil money went through A@M. I'd stay away from any Coach K disciple, as thier track record is putrid. If Kentucky wanted to think outside the box, either the Southern Illinois or Donovan's protege who is at VCU could be options. Or, even better, they can follow the Pitino model and take Providence's coach. Please, for the love of God would someone take the piece of camel dung that is the Providence coach.
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
      Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
      No NCs hurt Tubby.


    Uh, 1998? Or am I misinterpreting what "NC" stands for?


The detractors give credit for 1998 to Pitino because the players were his recruits. I personally like Tubby and don't think that Pitino would have won the regional final against Duke in 1998, but I did a bad job of elaborating my point in the post. More clearly, one NC wasn't enough and only one FF definitely wasn't enough.

redsoxnation- Chris Lowery wouldn't be tolerated by the fanbase. The fans want an uptempo coach and Lowery isn't uptempo. The fans also don't want anyone with dUKe ties - 1992 will forever live in infamy.



University of Kentucky basketball isn't a matter of life and death, it's much more important than that.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 9 hours
AIM:  
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
I think Tubby got out at the right time but it's still a great job for whoever can get it. It's not the Alabama football job in that Kentucky can still get the best recruits and can the conference is still very winnable. There might be the occasional Tennessee, LSU, or Alabama but Florida has been the only consistent team in the conference.

I wouldn't think Donovan would leave Florida now but who knows. A month from now he could possibly be sitting at home and realize he has two National Championships and Horford, Noah, Brewer, Green, Humphrey and Ricard all aren't coming back.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 2 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
I hope this isn't a thread jack, but it is related to the Kentucky job.

Speculation around here (Texas) is that Billy Gillespie is headed to Arkansas. But, I haven't seen anything firm about it yet. Unlike most of my fellow Texans, I can definitely see why he'd choose Arkansas over A&M. It's higher prestige plus they have more talent, especially in looking at next year's rosters. But, you'd have a helluva time convincing any Aggie or anyone on Dallas sports radio of that. Still, I don't see why he'd take that job as long as the Kentucky job is open. Regardless, I think Gillespie has coached his last A&M game. The guy's a miracle worker; he'd be great in either program.



"Teach children that they have great potential because they are human." -Warrior
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 2 days
Y!:
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Problem with getting Gillespie is that Kentucky can't win a bidding war if A@M wants to keep him. After Harvard and Yale, the school with the largest amount of money is Texas A@M. It sounds unusual, but all the oil money went through A@M.


I'm not going to quibble with your statement about A&M having the most money going through it behind Harvard and Yale, but will counter that UK Basketball is probably more important to the (stereotypical) coal and horse barons in Kentucky (which aren't too shabby in comparison to "oil money") than it is to the (stereotypical) football fans in Texas. What I mean is that whenever there is a need to get money into the athletic department for something the basketball team "needs" they have NO problem finding the money and will not. UK will likely outbid any shcool for any basketball coach it wants and not have a problem doing it. Much as I would expect UK having a hard time wooing a BCS Bowl winning football coach away from A&M.

That being said, none of the coaches mentioned excite me too much. I don't like Donovan because I don't and haven't liked his players at Florida. They say teams take on the personality of their coach, so I would imagine that Donovan is pretty much a punk. However, I think he is the coach that AD Mitch Barnhart is targeting. So god help him if he doesn't get Billy D and he has to appease the vocal yokels that wanted Tubby gone specifically for that purpose(of which I am not one). Barnhart is about to show if he really is a disciple of Louisville's Tom Jurich and can identify and get the best coach in the country for whatever position he's trying to fill, becuase he certainly did not with the Rich Brooks hiring for the football team (don't give me that crap that last year was successful with a Music City Bowl win - with the schedule they played, they should have won one if not two more games to have termed it "successful.").

I love Tubby and wish him the best with Minnesota. I'm sad that he felt pushed away or just got tired of the fishbowl and left. I am embarassed that it was to a program that I would not put on a par with Kentucky, but if anyone can put them at that level, it will be Tubby.

So opinionated, but don't have a strong opinion on who I would want for the job. Ultimately, I'll support whoever they hire (even Donovan) because he will be the UK coach. When Tubby was hired, I preferred Herb Sendek, but easily conceded on that point when Tubby won the National Championship his first year out, so I would not necessarily trust my judgment to determine who that person should be.

I will say that my dark horse candidate is Gregg Marshall of Winthrop. I think he coaches a style of play that would appease the vocal yokels that disliked Tubby's style and is ready for a step up to a major conference. Not sure UK would be the right job for him to "step up" to, but that's my dark horse.



It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them.
P. G. Wodehouse (1881 - 1975), The Man Upstairs (1914)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 335 days
Last activity: 328 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91

According to many of the media that cover Kentucky sports, one of the biggest problems with Tubby had to do with the fact that he is black.

One of the reasons that he sounded practically relieved during his press conference in Minnesota.





As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005
OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005
As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 2 days
Y!:
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    According to many of the media that cover Kentucky sports, one of the biggest problems with Tubby had to do with the fact that he is black.

    One of the reasons that he sounded practically relieved during his press conference in Minnesota.




Care to back that up with a link or two, or three?



It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them.
P. G. Wodehouse (1881 - 1975), The Man Upstairs (1914)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 335 days
Last activity: 328 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91

I'll back it up with this. In my job as a sports talk host, I have had many off the record talks with both national and local people covering the Kentucky team. They say that Tubby was never accepted by a large group of vocal fans because he wasn't white, he was uncomfortable there because of it, and that certainly played into his move to Minnesota.



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005
OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005
As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds
Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 hours
Y!:
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.12
Pat Richter, former AD at Wisconsin, was commenting on the radio yesterday that Tubby was in line to take over at Wisconsin until Dick Bennett threw his hat in the ring by being willing to leave UWGB. I either didn't know that or didn't recall it.
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I pretty much agree with Drew chapter and verse. Although I don't know much about the Winthrop coach. I sort of want Billy because I think it gives us a chance with Patterson and Lucas.

Eddie - I don't know if I'd say a majority of fans disliked Tubby because of race. I'd be lying if I said it was a factor with zero fans, but the larger problem is that he simply was not Rick Pitino. It's hard to be the man who succeeds "the man", you know?



University of Kentucky basketball isn't a matter of life and death, it's much more important than that.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 335 days
Last activity: 328 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91

    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    Eddie - I don't know if I'd say a majority of fans disliked Tubby because of race. I'd be lying if I said it was a factor with zero fans, but the larger problem is that he simply was not Rick Pitino. It's hard to be the man who succeeds "the man", you know?



Yes. Whoever succeeds me will have a lot of problems.

Seriously, no one was saying that it was a majority of fans, just enough to make him uncomfortable.



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005
OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005
As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 2 days
Y!:
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
      Eddie - I don't know if I'd say a majority of fans disliked Tubby because of race. I'd be lying if I said it was a factor with zero fans, but the larger problem is that he simply was not Rick Pitino. It's hard to be the man who succeeds "the man", you know?



    Yes. Whoever succeeds me will have a lot of problems.

    Seriously, no one was saying that it was a majority of fans, just enough to make him uncomfortable.


And unfortunately, I don't doubt that it was a problem with some Kentucky fans, but your original post said that Tubby's race was one of the biggest problems, which implied that it was a problem with all Kentucky fans, something I can assure you it was not to me and pretty much everyone I know.

The fact that some people no doubt had a problem with Tubby not being white was probably a factor in his moving on, but I just didn't appreciate it being painted as the "biggest problem," when I don't think and hope it wasn't.



It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them.
P. G. Wodehouse (1881 - 1975), The Man Upstairs (1914)
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 2 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
Now, the buzz is that A&M has an agreement with Gillespie for around $2 million annually through 2012, but he won't sign it as long as the Kentucky job is open. Personally, I don't see how Gillespie isn't second on the list (after Donovan, of course). A&M was 0-16 in the Big 12 the year before he took over, he's sharp, he wins with lesser talent (which speaks for his preparation and in-game strategy). Perhaps more importantly for the UK bubble, he's single with no kids, lives and breathes the job and has absolutely no distractions. Gillespie seems tailor made for the UK job, although I can certainly see why Donovan would rank higher on their list.

Personally, since I watch a fair amount of Big 12 basketball, I'd rather see UK hire Rick Barnes or Bill Self because that would improve the quality of basketball in the Big 12. But, that's not likely to happen.



"Teach children that they have great potential because they are human." -Warrior
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

Since last post: 2323 days
Last activity: 632 days
Y!:
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/...tory?id=2827764

On the heels of this- this appeared on the UK Athletics site this morning!

http://www.ukathletics.com/index.ph...hange_well_id=2


    UK To Announce Men's Basketball Coach Today

    The University of Kentucky will hold a pep rally and a press conference today to announce the 21st head coach in UK menís basketball history (6th in the last 76 years).

    An introductory pep rally is scheduled for 12:15 p.m. in Memorial Coliseum. Fans are encouraged to come out and welcome the new coach. The ensuing press conference will be televised live to all fans in Memorial Coliseum wishing to view the event. Doors open at 11 a.m. and admission is free.

    A press conference announcing the new coach will follow at 12:45 p.m. on the menís practice floor in the Joe Craft Center. The press conference is open to media, athletics board members, board of trustees, and former UK basketball players.


It appears Gillispie never signed his contract extension. Smart move by him.

EDIT: ESPN is now reporting the hiring:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2827764

(edited by Ffej on 6.4.07 0835)


Ffej- The 2005 NCAA "W" Tourney Pick 'Em Champion
modernmythpress.com
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I'm happy with Gillispie! He works hard and knows nothing but success. Seems to be a great recruiter as well.



University of Kentucky basketball isn't a matter of life and death, it's much more important than that.
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 2 days
Y!:
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.36
Of the names bandied about, I'm definitely happy we ended up with Gillespie. However, while reading the Louisville Courier-Journal this morning I got a dash of cold water splashed on the enthusiasm when I followed the stories on the hiring to see this inside:

Gillespie Arrested Twice on DWI Charges

Doesn't appear that he hid that fact during his whirlwind recruitment, but hopefully we don't have a repeat of Eddie Sutton's behaviour while in Lexington (including the "cheating")

(edited by DrewDewce on 7.4.07 1810)


It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them.
P. G. Wodehouse (1881 - 1975), The Man Upstairs (1914)
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