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The W - Pro Wrestling - CNN's investigation on the WWE and wrestling
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dfwabel
Chaurice








Since: 24.4.07
From: Walnut Creek, CA

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
I haven't seen this posted, but they started this after the Benoit death, interviews with Linda and Vince, plus looks at the "Dynamite Kid", Chris Benoit's father, and (Phil Brooks) CM Punk. The airing is named, "Death Grip". I was it as slightly slanted to be anti-WWE and wellness Policy, but I never thought htat they should be considered in the same realm as an NFL player.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/siu/

If this has already posted in other threads, please delete.

However, ever reading the reports about chris Masters, he must be caught four times to be terminated.

(edited by dfwabel on 8.11.07 0159)
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DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.95
All I need is a belt to prove it and I'll be set!


Thanks for the heads up. I tried to search for the show so I could DVR it, but all of the upcoming episodes cover other topics. No bentions of Benoit, wrestling, WWE, steroids, nothing :(



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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
I forgot it was on (actually, I thought it was on Wednesday for some reason but the website says it was on Tuesday - either way, I definitely missed the original airing), but I'm set up to tape one of the weekend replays. Even so, I don't know if I'll have any comments worth making after watching it.



thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
If you look around YouTube, you can find it.



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StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    If you look around YouTube, you can find it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_3Hma-r8MyU
It's broken into six parts. Havent had time to watch them all yet.
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    If you look around YouTube, you can find it.
Call me crazy, but I prefer watching my TV on television.



StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
Holy Christ, if you follow the links in the youtube link I posted, and get to part three, they show Dynamite Kid. He looks beyond awful. MAYBE 150 pounds. Just looks like a horrible cancer patient.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
Here's an edited version of the transcript of the interview with the McMahons from the special:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/07/mcmahons.transcript/index.html



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CTX
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Since: 11.5.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.72
Geez, great answer from Cena on the steroids question. I think he summed up the entire wellness policy in one sentence.



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TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
I actually wrote myself a note to remind myself not to miss this.. personally, I found the program to be much closer to what we would have liked to have seen when the Benoit story happened. Steroids were still the biggest focus, but other aspects of the case, and the business/lifestyle in general were discussed.

Things that stuck out for me:

- I didn't know that the WWE drug policy actually gives you four chances (in that the first positive is just a warning). In reflection, I'm pretty sure that I knew that at one time, but forgot as suspensions were discussed in terms of "three strikes".

- Vince came off reasonably well for a change (with Linda), although he was certainly toeing the company line by denying any responsibility. Of course, people generally talk the loudest about "personal responsibility" when they want to duck their own "contributory responsibility", as is the case with a potential lawsuit from the Benoit family. Came off a bit cowardly, but also within the scope of what's expected of a Chairman and CEO.

- Vince makes a fair point with questioning the diagnosis of Benoit's brain tissue as being "on a par with that of an 85-year old dementia patient". Vince pointed out that up until the final weekend, Benoit was getting to events and performing well enough to at least get by. When you think about it, that doesn't quite jibe, and it's something I hope the Sports Legacy Institute will address.

- I think most of us knew that Dynamite Kid was wheelchair-bound these days, but that look-in was pretty depressing to see how someone you would consider successful ends up. (Although with the subtitles, his accent and the story of when he held a shotgun to his wife's head, I couldn't help but wonder if I had stumbled into a new Piranha Brothers sketch..)

- (Asked if he had ever used steroids) - - Cena: "I can't tell you I haven't, but you'll never be able to prove that I have."
Whoa, that's some cute language-parsing there. And can't we all see where Cena may be prescribed steroids to recover from his injury, and how that could lead to an open-ended supply (testing exemption) in the guise of "testosterone replacement therapy"? At least that's how the Wellness policy works.

Highly recommended if you have a chance to catch the replay.




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SEADAWG
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Since: 5.7.03

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    I didn't know that the WWE drug policy actually gives you four chances (in that the first positive is just a warning).

That sounds like a fairly significant error. When has anyone ever said the first failure only gets people a warning?
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 122 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
    Originally posted by SEADAWG
    That sounds like a fairly significant error. When has anyone ever said the first failure only gets people a warning?


The quote is attributed to Travis Tygart of the United States Anti-Doping Agency*, and is represented as directly taken from the official WWE Wellness Policy. Although it's mentioned that the (first failure) warnings wouldn't be something that would get publicized. Supposedly there's been about twice as many warnings as suspensions, but that detail is not documented to my knowledge.

* (USADA is a non-governmental agency responsible for implementation of the World Anti-Doping Code in the United States. The USADA is funded by a U.S. federal grant and contracts with the USOC and other organizations.) (thanks, Wiki)

The information in the documentary appeared to be up to date within a week or so, I think they even changed a bit of the narration to mention the two suspensions from last week.




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Galidor
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Since: 15.7.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.07
Was the "secret long time former employee" Ventura?
Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Holy Christ, if you follow the links in the youtube link I posted, and get to part three, they show Dynamite Kid. He looks beyond awful. MAYBE 150 pounds. Just looks like a horrible cancer patient.


Honestly, he looked better than I imagined he would - which either speaks well for him or poorly for the descriptions I've read.

Considering the context, I think the story about Dynamite holding a shotgun under his wife's chin is one of the most disturbing things I've heard in a long while.





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Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.52
Most of you who know my posts know I try to be pretty objective when it comes to my judgments of things, especially wrestling. Like, I don't mind being corrected if someone brings up better facts, but I always try and call it like I see it.

And that being said, this special was the epitome of why I absolutely hate Cable/Broadcast News and such. It's never about getting down to the bottom of a story as best and objectively as possible, like journalism should be, but about how sensational can we make it and how many flimsy connections can we imply.

I'm not going to defend Vince or WWE, that's a whole other topic, but the whole program was agenda-set right from the beginning -- "Vince is a sleaze...and so is wrestling." At least that's what I gathered.

Some quick points of annoyance:
-Maybe that's the show's normal narrator (I, but the whole thing came off sounding like "America's Most Wanted." If Vince or whomever is guilty, prove it with the facts you present, not the tone of your voice or the use of stupid wrestling puns meaning trouble or falling down. Also, if you're going to talk about Vince McMahon the real-life boss, don't introduce him to viewers with a pic of him as Mr. McMahon, the screaming tyrant of TV wrestling.
-One big omission they conveniently left out when talking about the 94 steroid trial, was that Hogan also testified that he never saw Vince tell him or anyone else to take steroids or other drugs.
-They imply the connection that Benoit knew all about Dynamite's misdeeds and abuses as a young kid/fan and didn't care and wanted to be like him anyway. I'll note that Benoit might have known later on, but that's still kind of far-fetched to assume that at the start.

    Originally posted by Galidor
    Was the "secret long time former employee" Ventura?



The ONLY reason I would see them hiding Jesse's identity would be because Jesse would want to keep getting residuals from home video sales. And speaking out against Vince would mean we would get "The Best of Gorilla Monsoon Calling the PPVs" again.

If that's not the case then, no, Jesse would have appeared on camera and wouldn't have cared. Despite what people may think of him or his tenure as Governor, Jesse is in higher company than Vince. He doesn't need wrestling or McMahon, so like I said, unless it's about him securing his residuals, Jesse wouldn't have thought twice about appearing on camera if he felt it was the right thing to do.



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kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.56
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Holy Christ, if you follow the links in the youtube link I posted, and get to part three, they show Dynamite Kid. He looks beyond awful. MAYBE 150 pounds. Just looks like a horrible cancer patient.


He looked pretty rough in the pics from his book, and that was 5-6 years ago. I haven't seen the CNN special, and I can't imagine how he could look worse, so that should be interesting to see.




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Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.31
Promos on CNN say it will be on again Nov 10 and Nov 11 at 8pm.



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Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.13
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    Vince makes a fair point with questioning the diagnosis of Benoit's brain tissue as being "on a par with that of an 85-year old dementia patient". Vince pointed out that up until the final weekend, Benoit was getting to events and performing well enough to at least get by. When you think about it, that doesn't quite jibe, and it's something I hope the Sports Legacy Institute will address.




That "85-year-old" line has been used to describe the amount of brain damage Benoit had sustained, not the effects that damage would create. In terms of verifying this claim I think it's a simple matter of the Sports Legacy Institute providing the media with images for comparison.

Vince does make a good point, but it's in response to a very inexact summary of the Institute's findings. It's reasonable to assume that since taking a lifetime of head bumps is considerably different from suffering a neurological disease, different areas of the brain might be affected, which could then account for the different results (Benoit didn't slowly lose the ability to walk or swallow; Alzheimer's patients generally don't freak out and kill their families).

EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.77
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    (Asked if he had ever used steroids) - - Cena: "I can't tell you I haven't, but you'll never be able to prove that I have."
    Whoa, that's some cute language-parsing there. And can't we all see where Cena may be prescribed steroids to recover from his injury, and how that could lead to an open-ended supply (testing exemption) in the guise of "testosterone replacement therapy"? At least that's how the Wellness policy works.


According to Meltzer (wrestlingobserver.com), Cena's interview was edited to hell. Apparently, he answered no when asked if he had used steroids, and the answer they showed him giving was in response to a broader question about steroids and society. The unedited interview is available at WWE.com (wwe.com).



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TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    According to Meltzer (wrestlingobserver.com), Cena's interview was edited to hell. Apparently, he answered no when asked if he had used steroids, and the answer they showed him giving was in response to a broader question about steroids and society. The unedited interview is available at WWE.com (wwe.com).


I saw a report to that effect last night, and while my browser wouldn't connect with wwe video, the reports I've seen make that an entirely unsatisfactory misquote on CNN's part. I don't think 'disappointing' is the word for it, but it's quite unfortunate that a glaring error like that necessarily brings the rest of the documentary into question. Whoever was responsible for the quote getting on the air like that deserves fired.

However - the scenario that Cena could use potentially use steroids to recover from his current injury, and eventually be allowed free use of testosterone for the rest of his career under the WWE Wellness Policy remains. Same as could have happened for HHH or Batista after their injuries, or might happen for say.. Lashley, Helms or Edge.

(My dislike of hugely-proportioned muscle heads that can't put together anything but a 'slobberknocker' in the ring aside, I'm still not even sure how much "performance enhancing" matters in an activity that is not entirely competitive.)




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Or the fact that when Heyman was talking to the Dudleys he said that no one had ever layed a hand on Paul Bearer before when we've seen the Undertaker himself torch him with a fireball and Kane and Steve Austin shove him down a manhole.
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