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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

CMLL Line - 11/03/02 (58)

Thanks to: Robert Ortega for the original format, Krisz for the results archive, and Joe Gagne for the place to talk about it.

# Rudo, Rudo, Rudo (capitan) vs Tecnico, Tecnico (capitan), Tecnico
MM/DD/YY, Arena
F Type Time Finish Comment


1 Satanico, Blue Panther (c), Black Tiger vs Negro Casas, Felino, Atlantis (c)
10/15/02, Arena Coliseo
1 trios 2:58 Casas la Majistral Tiger
Felino la Majistral Satanico
well done but not particularly heated - felt like we've seen the same finish before between the same two guys. Built Atlantis vs Panther up well, at any rate. Will see if they take it any place. 
2 3:14 ref stop Atlantis
3 4:20 Panther reversed victory roll w/ropes Atlantis
T 10:42 Rudos (2-1)

Notes: No entrances. I'm STILL not used to Negro's buzz cut. Tiger and Felino circle - Tiger with an armbar to a hammerlock, Felino with the jumping snap mare to escape. Legsweep/zero count cover, stand off, blah blah blah. Felino bows towards Tiger in somewhat a respectful way, that's different. Panther and Atlantis. Circle. Lockup, break. Lockup, Atlantis with a reverse snap mare (just pretend) but Panther lands on his effect.) count after a legsweep, Atlantis with a monkey flip but Panther lands on his feet, full nelson, Atlantis elbows out, but rolls right into another one - this time, reverses to a grounded headscissors out of a crucifix. Panther bridges up but he's head is still stuck  _ Now he's standing on his head but i don't think that's helping. We look at the rudos in the corner and somehow Panther got his his head free. Armbar, but Atlantis kips to his feet. Double wristlock, Panther goes for the monkey flip but Atlantis isn't going (almost trying the rocking move but not getting it right), monkey flip for real and Atlantis lands on his feet, legsweep cover for zero, stand off. Yea yea. Satanico and Negro in - Satanico at least isn't here to fool around with mat wrestling for zero, he's coming with a hard back elbow and punches to the face. Everyone but Atlantis ends in, and Panther kinda directs traffic as Casas and Felino get whipped into each other. Bulldog into each other doesn't work, as the brothers push them off at the same time - stereo la Majistrals one two three. (2:58) Well that was something. I'm guessing the other two guys are the captains them but we'll have to figure out later. Outside, Tiger and Satanico are having words, but it doesn't appear to be heated.

Tiger and Casas circle, Casas sneaks in a  single leg. Off the ropes, over, quick turn around to nail Tiger with a clothesline. Headlock - no, Tiger gets the headlocks, shot in the ropes, Casas charges and tries to monkey flip Tiger by the ropes but slips - Tiger does a great job of making it flow by not waiting to go back on the offensive with a quick trip, and leaving himself open for Casas to trip him back. Casas off the ropes, ducks the clothesline, Tiger lifts him up and Casas dropkicks him out. Atlantis and Satanico. Satanico wants a handshake but Atlantis doesn't seem eager to do much but shadow box. Then - and this is just a guess - Satanico says to Atlantis "okay, I'll put both my hands behind my back so I can't do anything, if you only just put your hand on my face" and Atlantis is like "sure, what could you possibly do then?" and Satanico is like "[bite!]" Mask beal. Satanico is kinda proud of himself. Whip, knee lift (I guess, we missed it). Atlantis with a drop toe hold, legdrop on the leg, trying for a half Boston but Blue is into break it up. Panther with a clothesline, corner whip, clothesline. Now he's ripping at the masks, so you know he's got to e be a captain. Negro tires to come into s top hit but Satanico is in to lay him out. Repeat with Felino and Tiger - Felino has a resignation is his attack that shows that he knows he's not going to make it. Panther is licking his fingers, which can't be a good sign. Tiger is helping him rip, and the top of Atlantis' face is through. Negro is back in (I think Satanico rain Felino up the aisle) but Tiger deposes with him with some karate chops. Felino back and Satanico punching him out. Panther stops messing with Atlantis' mask so he can mess with Felino - are they ripping at his mask or just choking him. All three rudos are crowding behind so I can't tell, but Felino appears out. I think they must've ref stopped it with Atlantis at some point but it's far from clear. We'll say (3:14) because that's when the arms were raised. Rudos stop the beatdown, but start right as we go to replays.

Tecnicos regroup on the floor as fall three starts - Felino is separated from the others and thrown in to get beat. Double corner whip, Tiger's whipped in for a clothesline. Panther with a double leg takedown and holds on for the slingshot - Tiger wants to catch Panther on the fly and powerslam him, but there's little room for error apparently and it looks more like a double team gone bad with Felino hitting a cross body on Tiger - Tiger remains in control and covers, one, pulled up.  Felino is pretty much out, so Tiger will go a chinlock. They really didn't get much work done on his mask before, but his always seems like a well constructed one. Tiger with a slam - second rope moonsault one two Casas breaks it up. Looks like Panther and Satanico have gone out of the ring, so it's one on one with those two - no, Panther dives and and bites at Casas' boot. All three rudos surrounding him now - Satanico with shining jabs. They celebrate, and then Satanico is back to the jabs - one misses, and back comes Casas - spinning heel kick and Satanico claims it went low though it didn't. Felino back in, waiting of Atlantis to help him with a double whip, Atlantis tilt-a-whirl backbreaker. Panther gets a whip and one too, then Atlantis goes for Panther's mask. Tiger makes a big show of sneaking up on Atlantis form behind, but Felino dropkicks his knee to take him out of the picture. Felino with stomps (I guess - it looks like he wants to do something more spectacular and it's not lining up right.) We look back to Panther and Atlantis to see that the right side of Panther's mask is pretty much gone, and Atlantis' mask is coming apart too - Tiger breaks that up, and Felino is after him again. Casas back in with a kick for Tiger to take him out, but he leaves Atlantis and Panther to battle it out. Panther ducks a clothesline and hits a cross body one two no. Panther is distracted - it's really the top 2/3rds. Atlantis tries  a victory roll into a sunset flip one two no. Panther can't punch with out his mask coming loose - Atlantis tries a normal victory roll but Panther rolls it back one two no. Panther rolls out to try and regain his composure - Casas and Tiger are in, Casas quickly ahead with a kick and swinging neckbreaker, but Tiger pushes him away when he tries to follow up. Tiger charges with a cross body but Casas ducks and Tiger goes out - there's the apron dive Thesz press. Back in the ring, Felino goes for the Casas special but I think Satanico gets a low blow uppercut in to block it - not an especially good looking one and Felino doesn't sell it like death. Satanico tries a right hand but Felino reverses to an abdominal stretch, with Satanico trying too get to the ropes. Meanwhile, Atlantis hits a backdrop on Panther but a dropkick misses and actually nails Felino, breaking up the hold and knocking Felino and Satanico out of the ring. Atlantis recovers to hit the tilt-a-whirl back breaker on Panther again, then goes for a 'rana - Panther with a reversal and (after some effort to find it) there's the bottom rope grab one two three. (4:20) Replays - no post match mic work.

Ad hypes up Satanico vs Damien with clips form last week.

Vignette: Averno and Mephisto discuss their upcoming match, and wonder about Black Warrior's nominal tecnico status. Me too! This week, the Junior Infernales game of choice is Chutes and Ladders! Mephisto lands on that really bad chute that sends you the front row. They discuss Zumbido - I guess he's playing Halloween for this occasion. The phone rings but Mephisto doesn't want to get it. He does - it's Satanico, who I believe is training in the gym for his match against Damien, I think. They take off to join him. 

2 FdT (Damien, Nicho), Zumbido vs Black Warrior (c), Infernales (Averno, Mephisto)
10/18/02, Arena Mexico
1 trios 2:08 DQ Damien (cane shot on Averno) Odd - positioned as a heat builder but you'd think Damien would have gotten the momentum win. Still, a good outing for the time.
2 3:44 Mephisto top rope splash Nicho
T 5:52 Tecnico (2-0)

Notes: Damien and Nicho wear their title belts. Damien brought a Singapore can too. Wow, did Zumbido lose weight or something? There was a moment where I thought that might be Juvi, because he had glasses and I'm sorta crazy. Looks like this is a contract signing too, as Satanico shows up in street clothes and the usual contract signing people are there. Satanico and Damien exchange words. I think Nicho says they'll have the belts AND Satanico's hair. The man contract signing guy who always shows up in Juan Manual Mar, and thanks for the caption. The Hair for Hair match is signed. Wow, they're actually going to get the table out before the fight starts this time. Warrior and Zumbido have words, then Damien goes after Satanico, then everything breaks it. Satanico is held back, which is plenty good for Damien but not much good the other way.

The falls starts as everything is being sorted out, with the rudos pretty much taking control early. We watch Damien work over Warrior in the corner for a while and misses whatever Nicho and Zumbido do to the other two. But they're thrown out, so Warrior gets worked over by all three. Corner whip, triple corner clothesline. Nicho goes to the top rope (sitting) with an inverted facelock, flips forward off the top rope and uses the momentum to pull Warrior over with a snap mare. I've seen stuff like that but not exactly it. Zumbido goes to the top rope, Damien sets himself - running into a 'rana on Zumbido, which lands Zumbido back first onto Warrior. Hey, they figured out some teamwork. Rudos celebrate. Averno back in  and he's quickly subdued by three on one. Triple whip, saved by, double spinebuster lift and hold so Zumbido can hit a slingshot dropkick. Nicho superkicks Mephisto as he tries to come into make the save, which leaves some celebrating. Slingshot legdrop to the floor! Nicho is nuts and I don't even know if that really hit (though looking at Mephisto he sure felt it). Averno is coming back against Zumbido but Damien has had enough of this beatdown - cane for Averno, can for Warrior, can for Warrior, can for Averno. And now he's going after Avenro's knee in pay back, but (2:08) the refs block it up while calling a DQ. Nicho works the knee while Zumbido keeps the ref from interfering. Still, it looks like Averno escaped with less damage - Zumbido dives off the apron with a cane shot for Mephisto, then gives us some crotch shots. You know, I can actually see him fitting in as the third guapo today. Replay - Nicho's off foot actually hit the ground first and that couldn't have felt good. 

Beatdown goes on in between falls - they still need to pick up one off of this, I guess. Averno's held in place outside the ring so Zumbido can hit a swinging dropkick between the ropes on him. Back in the ring, Nicho just slammed Mephisto. Oh no, there's the arm wave, off one set of ropes, off the other set of ropes, People's Legdrop. Mephisto sells it like death itself. Damien picks him up - whip, wheel kick. Averno pulled in by Nicho - double leg takedown, kneedrop to the hurt knee. Nicho keeps dropping the knees on the bad knee while Zumbido headbutts Mephisto out of the ring. Damien adds a legdrop on the bad leg, but Averno won't give. Double whip, Nicho with a shoulderblock. Why no move - oh, warrior's in. He's stopped, and gets a Zumbido clothesline. FdT hold him for another - but as he's running, the Juniors pull FdT out, and it's Zumbido who takes the clothesline. Nicho and Damien are whipped into each other after a moment. All three pseudo-tecnicos in - Zumbido gets set up for an Averno dropkick, then a Warrior dropkick to take him out. Nicho is in and tries corner clotheslines for everyone, but then everyone gets a clothesline on him. Nicho is dead in the corner, but Warrior picks him up and waves - open hand slap, corner whip, no Nicho blocks so another chop. Corner whip to the Juniors, who hit a double drop toe hold to knock Nicho face first into the corner. Double chokeslam! Warrior going up - flying elbow drop. Warrior spots Zumbido standing outside, runs - TOPE! We didn't get a good shot of it, but it didn't look as good as previously. Damien in, kick for Mem, kick for Averno but it's caught (eventually), and he's spun around for a clothesline. Whip, and Mephisto backdrops Damien to the apron. Nicho in - he ducks a Mephisto clothesline and superkicks him. Averno misses a clothesline but hits open hand chops. Corner whip, reversed, Nicho charges in but no one's home and he crotches himself on the top rope. Averno scoops him off - crucifix power drop, Mephisto with a top rope splash. Everyone cover (3:44)

Satanico's back to celebrate with his troops, which of course leads to another brawl. In this case, four proves better than three and Nicho and Damien run for the crowd while Satanico is held back again. Words are exchanged and the tecnicos take off outside the ring for another standoff, with Zumbido FdT working their way to the ramp.

Vignette: Welcome to CMLL Tough Enough - it's Magica and Shocker watching and instructing the Guapo-wannabes. This week's special guest is El Hijo Del Santo! Well it's gonna be tough for Al to top this. Is Zumbido not here for this? Santo singles out Ricky and Tony, but I assume it's because those are the two guys he knows. I don't see Zumbido (but he's slimmer so maybe I'm missing him) but I think I count 11. They put all the names into a lottery tumbler to pick out the first two to have a match. The names drawn are El Terrible and Genetico. Shocker and Magica run down the "call to choose your favorite" concept for the people at home.

After a break, a valet stands with some of the participants and explains the concept one more time. 

Spectacular Moments - Chris Stone slips on the Arena Coliseo ramp - slow motion, back and forth! The Stones (hey, that's why that lip/tounge logo is there) make it up with a double tope. There's Ringo winning last week - it wasn't that good. Felino's apron dive victory roll headscissors form last week is okay. Bestia's senton wasn't that good. Must've been a slow week.

Vignette: Rey, Ultimo and Tarzan - looks different for some reason - talk on their stairway. Rey is not scared of Vampiro. No, not at all. Teaming with Dr. Wagner, they'll have no problem with him, Niebla and Lizmark Jr. This seems more like his buddies trying to reassure it than Rey believing it himself. Anyway, Rey's gonna beat Vampiro right here and that'll be the end of it.

3 Dr. Wagner (c), GdI (Rey, Ultimo) vs Vampiro (c), Mr. Niebla, Lizmark Jr. 
10/18/02, Arena Mexico
1 trios 2:48
triple submission on Lizmark
triple submission on Niebla 
Surprising to see Rey get the clean win this early in the feud - wish I knew how they spun it: rivalry over? Vampiro now the one who need to get a win? Rey very lucky? Probably the best Niebla outing in a while - due to better teammates/opponents than normal 
2 3:48
Lizmark Northern Lights Suplex Wagner
Niebla 'rana Ultimo
3 3:33 Rey blocked off the top rope 'rana Vampiro
T 10:42 Rudos (2-1)

Notes: Rey gets over his fear of vampires by taking down Vampiro on the ramp in the middle of his entrance. Rey gets in punches and stomps and pretty much has Vampiro laying - I assume Ultimo and Wagner ran off the other two, because they're not there when we come back. Vampiro thrown in, and everyone takes a turn punching him. Make a wish. Wagner with a clothesline and a right. Rey with punches. Ultimo hits swinging dropkick to keep everyone else out while Rey stomps Vampiro out of the ring, gives hi a swinging dropkick, then brings him back to the apron. Meanwhile, Niebla and Wagner having a punch battle - Wagner cheats and kicks, allowing him the edge. Double whip for Niebla, double back elbow. Rey is still working over Vampiro with stomps. He gets brought up for a double whip - double back elbow, and rolled into the triple wheelbarrow suplex. Rey dropkicks him back onto the stage (knocking one of those yellow panels out of place) but still isn't done - suplex on the ramp! Wow, he's focused - Rey takes that displaced ramp bit and hits it on Vampiro's legs - apparently the refs missed that. Ultimo and Wagner decide to stop watching that and go back to work on Lizmark - double whip, triple boot. Wagner loads up Lizmark in the Gory Special and Gdi Hit the double bulldog. Triple straight jacket slingshot! Double falling headbutts. Ultimo and Rey go with dual half crab/armbars and Wagner pulls back on the legs for added pressure - Lizmark doesn't last long. (2:48) Niebla back in. Double whip, and eventually a double faceslam for him. GdI hold him for a running Wagner dropkick to the face. Triple submission (3:15) Replays. 

We take a look at another four of the possible Guapos. Break.

Rudos wait in the ring while the tecnicos recover outside as we start the fall. Nieblas  is in first - and he gets punched by Wagner. Chop from Ultimo, right form Rey. Double corner whip, triple boot for him. Lizmark in and he gets kick form Ultimo and Rey. Double armbar, kicked to his knees, Dr. Wagner pounds the face with punches. Triple Dropkick to the face! Vampiro in - Dr. Wagner pulls him up, and everyone helps out for a triple press slam!. Rey picks Vampiro in but stopped. Forearm to the back, triple dropkick - no, Wagner and Ultimo are pulled out, and Rey realizes that he's stuck alone with Vampiro. Rey freezes, Vampiro dropkicks his knee. Tecnico comeback on the outside, while Rey is trying to find someplace to hide in the ring. Rey smartly leaves, but Vampiro is out after him with a jumping kick. Clothesline. Niebla poses Wagner,. Rey and Vampiro reach a standoff, and Vampiro invites him back in the ring. Looks like we're settling back in to normal - no, the rudos are thinking about leaving. GdI huddle dance on the ramp. Okay, Wagner will come back in to take on Lizmark. But only after the fans are done annoying him. Exchange of open hand slaps - Wagner doesn't like how that one is going, so he opts for forearms, off the ropes, under a spin kick and a dropkick to Lizmark's knee. Lizmark is hurt and down. Wagner with forearms to the neck, corner whip, Lizmark kips up and back for a standing switch, Wagner goes behind, Lizmark manages to turn around, Wagner with a kick, suplex is blocked and Lizmark hits a northern lights one two three (3:48) Meanwhile, Niebla went for the handspring elbow on Ultimo, Ultimo threw him up on his shoulders but Niebla quickly counted to a 'rana one two three. (3:54) Vampiro scissors kicks Rey out of the ring when eh tries to make the save, and kicks him more down on the floor, with Rey just trying to get away again. Niebla and Lizmark celebrate, then get in a few more stomps. Rey backs up half way through the crowd to get away from Vampiro, and the rudo referee keeps him back. Replays

While everyone else is getting sorted out, Ultimo ambshed Niebla with a back elbow, so I guess they'll star tout. Chop. Chop. Chop and down goes Niebla. Wagner taunts him form the apron, , then asks Ultimo to hold him up so he can slap him. Ultimo whip, Niebla slides under, Ultimo manages an armbar into a hammerlock, Niebla breaks him loose to hit the spinning headscissors. Ultimo waves Niebla by on the charge, tries for a hiptoss but Niebla lands on his feet, slap knocks Niebla down. Ultimo charges, but Niebla monkey flips him over the ropes and high to the floor. Niebla gets speed - and stops to slap Wagner. Rey wants a piece of Niebla, so Niebla tags to Vampiro. Vampiro is eager, Rey not so much. Open hand slap match - Vampiro is the one who goes for a kick firs but then it stops again - this time, Vampiro's kick is blocked and Rey hits a clothesline. Back to the slap battle and now it's Rey with the kick - off the ropes and into a Vampiro kick. Vampiro walks into a double leg takedown, tries to hold him down by his legs but Vampiro kicks him to the floor. Vampiro goes to the apron but Rey pulls him off and stomps him into the floor. Back in the ring, it's Niebla and Ultimo again - Ultimo corner whip, charge into a boot, Niebla backs out, gets monkey flipped but lands on his feet. Ultimo with a shoulderblock, off the ropes, Niebla comes at him with the handspring elbow, Ultimo sidesteps and yells, Lizmark slips in and superkicks him out of the ring. Niebla gets speed and Lizmark helps launch him into a high somersault plancha. Wagner in with a clothesline on Lizmark, but Lizmark doesn't feel it. Wagner off the ropes and this time, Lizmark gives him a spinebuster slam. Lizmark puts Wagner in a standing headscissors, signals for the Razor's Edge, pulls Dr. Wagner out and into a goozle, Dr. Wagner gets annoyed with Lizmark not calling for the right move (he should've made the chokeslam signal!) and back elbows out. Wagner off the ropes, Lizmark waves him by, Wagner jumps at Lizmark (not really a cross body, more a Thesz press), Lizmark catches him (he seemed more like he was expecting a crossbody) and there's a powerslam (though it could've been Wagner DDTing Lizmark - Wagner sells it slightly, sot it's probably not.) Lizmark off the ropes, superkick takes Wagner out. Lizmark gets speed but Rey gets in front of him to backdrop him to the apron. Rey's punch is blocked, Lizmark's not, Lizmark hits an Asai Moonsault on Wagner and lands in a front row seat on the rebound. Rey's in - and so is Vampiro. Shot of Lizmark relaxing in the seat. Rey charges, clothesline misses, Vampiro's high kick misses, Vampiro's overhead belly to belly toss hits. Clothesline, and Vampiro goes up - 'rana is pushed away, Rey with a jacknife cover one two three. (3:33) what the heck! That was CLEAN. No cheating. I must've missed a low blow. Rey is pumped - he did beat Vampiro! Now, back to punching Vampiro. Okay, now celebrate with the bell ringing dude. Replays - normally, you might see a powerbomb as a reversal there, but it was more Rey stepping away while still holding the legs. Vampiro took a powerbomb like bump but it was all due to the 'rana being blocked, not Rey throwing him down. 

Final 4 Guapo Contestants.  - actually 3, yea, no Zumbido. I wasn't going nuts! I wonder what's with that. 

Next Week: Satanico vs Damien. Vampiro, Dr. Wagner, Tarzan Boy, Rey Bucanero, Super Porky, Ultimo Guerrero, Mr. Niebla, Black Warrior, Lizmark - which one doesn't belong?

Rating: Bases on the quality of the finish, ring work, internal/external storyline, consistency and my whims. Also, various other (random) factors that I can't think of right now. 0-100 for matches.


3 Matches (27:16) about 30.3% of showtime (1:30:00); 

Average Match Rating 74.7
Overall Match Rating: approximately 80
3 Trios
1 Tecnico over Rudo wins, 2 Rudo over Tecnico wins
Show Assessment: Solid action, if no standout match, and good build to next week

Closing Notes: 

1. That Shocker/Magica/Santo bit was long, which is probably why we got only three matches. Still, plenty of time.
2. Match 2 was treated by the caption as rudo vs rudo, but Warrior's a tecnico and Infernales are acting that way right now.
3. Maybe it was Wagner and Atlantis with the rope grab? It was the opposite side of the ring, but Arena Coliseo...
4. Satanico vs Damien should be a good brawl - wonder how much the outside forces will affect it.
5. I think I may be moving my vote from Ricky Marvin to Zumbido slightly - assuming he's still in it.

(edited by thecubsfan on 6.11.02 2118)
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