R-Dub
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|  #21 Posted on 8.5.07 2019.10 | Instant Rating: 2.50 | I am not Clemens biggest fan, but just to counterbalance the "He was only 7 and 6 last year"
From Wikipedia: "For the second year in a row, his win total did not match his performance, as he finished the season with a 7-6 record, a 2.30 ERA, and a 1.04 WHIP"
I seem to remember several of his outings where Houston scored either zero or 1 run. I doubt he will have that problem in New York.
I will agree with those who have a bone to pick with him not playing the whole year. That has never set well with me.
How much money does one person need anyway? I hope the charities have his phone number. | Sec19Row53
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| #22 Posted on 8.5.07 2126.41 | Instant Rating: 7.11 | Originally posted by R-Dub
I seem to remember several of his outings where Houston scored either zero or 1 run. I doubt he will have that problem in New York.
I heard it mentioned somewhere on the radio today, whether national ESPN or local -- do you think the team might have scored more runs for him if he were around all the time? Ya know, maybe they'd have cared a little more for the guy? | thecubsfan
Scrapple
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| #23 Posted on 9.5.07 0011.01 | Instant Rating: 10.00 |
Baseball-reference is awesome. Clemens averaged 3.8 run support, with is nearly 1 under the league average runs per game (4.76) Houston's hitting sucked in '06 - but they scored 4.54 on average for the season. Though - I wonder how much they averaged for the time Clemens was around?
quick and dirty runs/game based on the splits page
April: 125 runs, 24 games = 5.2
May: 123 runs, 30 games = 4.1
June: 113 runs, 26 games = 4.3
July: 115 runs, 25 games = 4.6
August: 137 runs, 29 games = 4.7
Sep/Oct: 122 runs, 28 games = 4.2
Clemens joined at the end of July, so run support was roughly 4.56, around the season mark. (Home and away matters a bit here too - you can probably get a more accurate number with more work.)
Ya know, maybe they'd have cared a little more for the guy?
I know what the numbers I just posted said, but - The team tends to get credit for the win too, so I think they probably try to win the games no matter who's starting.
I think it's more of a case of random chance and matchups - stuff that might have pulled back towards the average over a 32 start season - but not so much a 19 one.
thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog | ekedolphin
Scrapple
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| #24 Posted on 9.5.07 0011.57 | Instant Rating: 2.29 | Originally posted by chill, in a different thread, about a different pitcher but still appropriate:
One pitcher will not save your team, which is why this is retarded.
Roger Clemens has officially, to me, gone off the deep end when it comes to ego and demanding massive amounts of money to play a game that I would gladly play for free. He's had a storied career, but seriously, just who the hell does he think he is?
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|  #25 Posted on 9.5.07 0028.44 | Instant Rating: 5.71 | Originally posted by kentish
What was his record last year, 7-6? At age 44, that should raise a red flag to someone that he might not have the same stuff anymore.
Are you serious? Sure he was 7-6, but he only gave up more than 2 earned Runs 3 times in 19 starts. He had an ERA of 2.3 a Whip of 1.02. A BAA of .216
The only thing the 7-6 record indicated was he played for Houston and got precious little run support or good relief pitching after he left the game.
EDIT: Umm, yes Merc, read the second page before replying. Sorry :)
(edited by Merc on 9.5.07 1630) | CRZ
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| #26 Posted on 9.5.07 0047.54 | Instant Rating: 9.00 | And he only hit .074! Gimme a break!
 | chill
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|  #27 Posted on 9.5.07 0139.44 | Instant Rating: 2.55 | Originally posted by kentish
What was his record last year, 7-6?
You're kidding, right? A pitcher's record means shit. Otherwise, one could argue today that Josh Beckett is a great pitcher. Clemens' record has more to do with the lack of run support he's received from the Astros. Period.
Originally posted by kentish
I don't care how great you are, show up for freakin' spring practice, and play the whole season.
...so he ends up injured from attempting to pitch a full season at 44? You pointed out his age yourself. A Roger Clemens who pitches 6 innings per outing for half a season is still better than most of the elite pitchers. Hence, the reason why EVERY team wanted to talk with his agent. ALSO the reason why he's able to dictate which teams he's WILLING to go to.
Originally posted by kentish
How does that make his teammates feel?
You mean the teammates who had spent the last two months (and more) asking him to come back to New York? Those teammates? I'd say they're pretty happy. After all, they all seemed ecstatic about the news when Roger announced it at the game himself. | spf
Scrapple
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| #28 Posted on 9.5.07 1305.46 | Instant Rating: 5.16 | (deleted by JustinShapiro on 9.5.07 2008)
wacky double post
(edited by JustinShapiro on 9.5.07 2008) | spf
Scrapple
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| #29 Posted on 9.5.07 1305.47 | Instant Rating: 5.16 | Originally posted by chill
This deal isn't so bad, and the Yankees haven't driven up the price of other pitchers. Clemens is in his own league. You won't see any team letting Santana or Zambrano have the option of not being around on days they don't pitch or starting later in the year. So this is all moot... but nevertheless still rather interesting to discuss!
This part interests me. Why shouldn't Johan demand something like that if he wants it when he gets to free agency? Carlos Zambrano pitches poorly in cold weather, why shouldn't he try to throw a clause in his contract that lets him start his season on May 1?
If anything, this could be the future of the mega-deals. At some point for most people the extra 1 million a year might be able to be trumped by a team that promises to fly you home on your days off, or promises you only have to play 100 games a year, or gives you a say in personnel decisions. Would it be worth taking 20 million instead of 23 million a year if it meant you could fire the manager at your whim?
I'm going bald to help kids with cancer! (stbaldricks.org) | kentish
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| #30 Posted on 9.5.07 1947.54 | Instant Rating: 2.50 | Originally posted by Merc
Originally posted by kentish
What was his record last year, 7-6? At age 44, that should raise a red flag to someone that he might not have the same stuff anymore.
Are you serious? Sure he was 7-6, but he only gave up more than 2 earned Runs 3 times in 19 starts. He had an ERA of 2.3 a Whip of 1.02. A BAA of .216
The only thing the 7-6 record indicated was he played for Houston and got precious little run support or good relief pitching after he left the game.
EDIT: Umm, yes Merc, read the second page before replying. Sorry :)
(edited by Merc on 9.5.07 1630)
I did say "might". What I am trying to point out there is that he is 44, went 7-6, and can't/won't play a full season anymore.
Sure, guys want him on their team, because he can make a team a contender. But don't tell me it doesn't burn some guys up that he gets this preferential treatment. Baseball is still a team sport, no matter how many players would like you to only recognize them.
As a Reds fan, I wish Griffey could start playing around mid season so he isn't injured when it ends. But that would not be right, or fair to his teammates. Injuries are part of the game, and if Roger can't play a full season anymore without getting hurt, he can always retire. Or go to the bullpen. He doesn't have to go this route that makes Bonds look like the Teammate of the Year.
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| Guru Zim
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| #31 Posted on 10.5.07 1030.19 | Instant Rating: 8.81 | AL Pitching is probably the least team dependant / most individual position in baseball - maybe in any sport. Even a place-kicker in football has to practice and depend on his blockers.
AL Pitchers need to learn a set of signals when they change teams. They don't have to relearn how to pitch, how to cover first, etc. He's not costing the team by not being there - if anything he's costing himself conditioning time.
I assume Roger has been conditioning and taking care of himself.
I don't see this as any different than picking up a guy on the expanded rosters right before the playoffs. Who cares if you pitched with the team all year or if you were called up in the last month? If you can deliver in the playoffs, that's all that matters.
That's a lot of talk about a guy that hasn't even pitched yet and a team that probably won't make the playoffs. I think I'll stop now.
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Ignorance is bliss for you, hell for me. | skorpio17
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| #32 Posted on 10.5.07 1143.52 | Instant Rating: 2.33 | Even without Clemens the Yankees would've made the playoffs based on them making it every year for the last dozen or so years. If the Yankee players and front office are ok with Clemens work schedule, I don't see why anyone else would have a problem with it. So, sure I'm happy they signed Clemens, but I was even happier that Andy returned a Yankee.
I also would put Wang, Pettitte, and Mussina up against Schilling, Beckett, and Matsuzaka and like my matchup. | BOSsportsfan34
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| #33 Posted on 10.5.07 1745.26 | Instant Rating: 5.89 | Originally posted by skorpio17
Even without Clemens the Yankees would've made the playoffs based on them making it every year for the last dozen or so years.
That logic worked out for Atlanta last year didn't it? All good things eventually come to an end.
Originally posted by skorpio17
I also would put Wang, Pettitte, and Mussina up against Schilling, Beckett, and Matsuzaka and like my matchup.
Things cound change, as it is a long season, but right now I can't see anyone beside the most ultimate Yankee homer making that statement.
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