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The W - Print - CIVIL WAR #5: Why am I still getting this?
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Cerebus
3-time W of the Day!








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
CIVIL WAR #5 was a definite step up from issue #4, but it still has it's problems.

A lot of stuff is happening in this issue... but the majority of the action doesn't actually happen on the pages for us to see. I'll get to THAT gripe in a minute though. Here's what happened...

Sue and Johnny Storm escape from SHIELD agents and are off to join up with Captain America.

Spidey escapes from Stark Tower only to get the shit beaten out of him rather easily by two new Thunderbolts, Jack O'Lantern and Jester. The Punisher appears and kills the two by shooting them in the mellons, rescuing Spidey. Hmm...

Sue and Johnny AND Punisher with Spidey all arrive at the super secret hide-out where Cap and the Anti-Registration group is. Punisher says he's been in disguise helping them out and he can also get them all into the Fantastic Four's headquarters. Tigra is seen making a phone call, probably to let Iron Man and SHIELD know what's up.

Iron Fist, disguised as Daredevil, is arrested and brought to Rykers Island to be transported to the super hero prison in the Negative Zone. Iron Man tries to sway 'Daredevil' into registering, but fails. By 'sway' I mean he reveals that the 50 STATES INITIATIVE is a plan to place a Super Powered team in each state as a way of policing the super powered community. The SHIELD agents give Tony a silver dollar that 'Daredevil' was hiding in his mouth. 'Daredevil' then says "Guess that's thirty one pieces you got now.", and calls him Judas.

-----

So, as I've stated above, this was certainly better then the last issue, which was complete ass. With this issue being mostly conversation and exposition, it makes a better read and is missing the stupid shit like the clone of Thor.


--Gripes!--

In the fight between Spider-Man and Iron Man, we're expected to believe that Spidey can throw Iron Man throw a wall, but he can't bust through a glass window. Sure, it was funny because they ALWAYS bust through the window to escape, but it didn't work for me... especially when right after that, SHIELD agents are able to shoot the window out with bullets. Bad story telling there.

Spidey's 'Iron-Spider' suit that bullets bounce off of gets ripped up by glass. Tony Stark gave him a pretty shitty costume.

Also bad is that Sue and Johnny Storm, The Punisher, Tigra... pretty much EVERYONE in the Marvel Universe can seem to find the Anti-Registration hide out except Tony Stark. That's pretty stupid and it makes no sense.

Lastly, and this is pretty bad, but this issue feels like a waste of time and effort on the 'writer'. While some stuff does happen, it's all gravy. The actual meat and potatoes of the issue happens in other books. The Spider-Man fight happens in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #536. To find out why a main character from Young Avengers is joining the pro-registration side, you have to read the YOUNG AVENGERS/RUNAWAYS mini-series. To find out where SHIELD is getting it's super powered 50 states police force from, you need to be reading THUNDERBOLTS. To figure out what Tony's talking about, you need read IRON MAN #13 where he's offered Nick Fury's job as head of SHIELD.

-----

Overall, this series is doing nothing as a way of getting readers to see why some people are for registration or against it. It's somewhat hinted at that Tony Stark is for it as a way of not having people with powers outright declared against the law, and the Punisher says he's against it because the government is hiring murderers and psychopaths as law enforcement, but that's pretty much it. We still haven't been told why Captain America is so totally against it, and this isn't helping his cause any. I'm feeling like this entire series wasn't mapped out before hand and they're using all the mini-series and tie-in issues to cover up that fact. It's like, if you already get AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, NEW AVENGERS, IRON MAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA, THUNDERBOLTS, and FANTASTIC FOUR, then there's no reason to buy this series because everything that's alluded to in it actually happens in the other books.

CLIFFNOTES! That's what this book feels like. A monthly CLIFFNOTES of the ongoing Marvel titles.
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
While I can appreciate the fact that Steve McNiven put a lot of love into his artwork (and it shows), two months is too long a wait for THIS. This issue would have been less than average on a monthly title, much less a bi-monthly mega-event. I finished reading and got the sense that nothing really happened.

Although I do appreciate the Punisher's appearance.



"That's the thing: Maybe he'll be up and down this season, but when he's up, is there another center in the league quite like him? He protects the rim, passes out of double teams, has great hands around the basket, up-fakes on his jump-hooks, rebounds in traffic, even has a motor that keeps going and going (unlike a stiff like Eddy Curry). I'm not sure what's missing here. This is stunning. This is startling. There's almost no precedent for it. Just what the Lakers needed: More obscenely good luck. Meanwhile, I have to watch Al Jefferson whip jump-hooks off the front of the rim for the third straight season. I will now pour scalding hot water down my pants."
-Bill Simmons on Andrew Bynum (11/08/06)
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 2441 days
Last activity: 2441 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.38
The Amazing Spiderman and New Avengers tie-ins are very good.

Looking for Tony Stark's motive, he is a member of the Illuminati and follows their views (another Bendis creation) or he could be controlled by Kang again.

How do you clone Thor without the hammer? Wouldn't that be like cloning Green Lantern without his power ring?

Anyway I recently read a Civil War tie-in that is easily the worst comic book of the year. It is a Wolverine issue. The writer uses Punisher style blood and gore instead of a story and the artist draws everyone as having a dog's face. Wolverine is tracking Nitro to bring him to justice, but instead Namor captures Nitro and takes him to Atlantis. So, Wolverine stands on the shore and whines about being unable to stay underwater. For some reason, a reluctant Iron Man helps. The next thing you know Iron Man is underwater kicking ass and Iron Man pops his claws to reveal himself as Wolverine in Iron Man armor.

Nothing in Civil War could be worse than this.
Cerebus
3-time W of the Day!








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    ...The next thing you know Iron Man is underwater kicking ass and Iron Man pops his claws to reveal himself as Wolverine in Iron Man armor.

    Nothing in Civil War could be worse than this.


What part of Reed Richards 'cloning' the Norse God Thor from a strand of hair found on a couch did you NOT find fucking retarded and the worst plot point EVER?
Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2332 days
Last activity: 1763 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.12
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    How do you clone Thor without the hammer? Wouldn't that be like cloning Green Lantern without his power ring?


Thor's superhuman strength and durability are derived from his heritage as a Norse god, not from the hammer. The hammer just provides his ability to fly and command lightning and stuff, which Reed and Tony have simulated with a sophisticated electronic replica of the hammer. You may be thinking of the fact that Thor would turn into a mortal man if he let go of his hammer, but that was just an enchantment Odin put on him which doesn't apply on a genetic level. If you clone Thor's DNA you get a copy of Thor's body, not a copy of the magic spells cast upon him.

Given the suggestion that Clone Thor is partially composed of cybernetics, I'd say Reed and Tony weren't all that successful cloning Thor to begin with. We don't know how much of what we're seeing is the result of the genetic engineering of a supernatural being and how much is technological sleight of hand.
Shem the Penman
Toulouse








Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 296 days
Last activity: 94 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
This is the first time I've read anything much about clone Thor, and, if what you guys are saying is accurate ... nyeeeeargh. And I thought DC had cornered the market on retarded ways to bring a character back with the Yellow Fear Monster mess.

I've only been following CW through tie-ins in books I would buy anyway (after Infinite Crisis and Seven Soldiers, and with 52 still going on, my comics dollar only goes so far), and some of them have, as noted, been good enough to make me wonder if I was missing out by not exploring the crossover in greater depth. Guess not.



"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88
At risk of veering off on a tangent, didn't Joe Quesada say that readers didn't NEED the tie-ins in order to keep up with Civil War? I'll admit I haven't bought a single tie-in and I feel lost as all hell jumping into issue five. So much happened between issues four and five that missing the tie-ins have left me completely out of the loop.



"That's the thing: Maybe he'll be up and down this season, but when he's up, is there another center in the league quite like him? He protects the rim, passes out of double teams, has great hands around the basket, up-fakes on his jump-hooks, rebounds in traffic, even has a motor that keeps going and going (unlike a stiff like Eddy Curry). I'm not sure what's missing here. This is stunning. This is startling. There's almost no precedent for it. Just what the Lakers needed: More obscenely good luck. Meanwhile, I have to watch Al Jefferson whip jump-hooks off the front of the rim for the third straight season. I will now pour scalding hot water down my pants."
-Bill Simmons on Andrew Bynum (11/08/06)
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.55
    Originally posted by It's False
    At risk of veering off on a tangent, didn't Joe Quesada say that readers didn't NEED the tie-ins in order to keep up with Civil War? I'll admit I haven't bought a single tie-in and I feel lost as all hell jumping into issue five. So much happened between issues four and five that missing the tie-ins have left me completely out of the loop.


Oh, absolutely. It doesn't help that other comics, namely Captain America and Thunderbolts, are telling the entire story of Civil War about 100 times better than the actual mini. I guess some other writers at least felt we might need some character motivation and plot development.
Llakor
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

Since last post: 593 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.20
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
      Originally posted by skorpio17
      How do you clone Thor without the hammer? Wouldn't that be like cloning Green Lantern without his power ring?


    Thor's superhuman strength and durability are derived from his heritage as a Norse god, not from the hammer. The hammer just provides his ability to fly and command lightning and stuff, which Reed and Tony have simulated with a sophisticated electronic replica of the hammer. You may be thinking of the fact that Thor would turn into a mortal man if he let go of his hammer, but that was just an enchantment Odin put on him which doesn't apply on a genetic level. If you clone Thor's DNA you get a copy of Thor's body, not a copy of the magic spells cast upon him.

    Given the suggestion that Clone Thor is partially composed of cybernetics, I'd say Reed and Tony weren't all that successful cloning Thor to begin with. We don't know how much of what we're seeing is the result of the genetic engineering of a supernatural being and how much is technological sleight of hand.


At the risk of geeking out - way, way too late for that I'm afraid - part of the whole point of the Thor/Don Blake dynamic is that Thor's default persona is Don Blake. When Thor is seperated from the hammer for longer than what ten minutes? he reverts to being Don Blake. I would assume that the same would be true of bits and pieces of Thor that "shed" skin/hair etc. So if you tried to clone Thor you would end up with Don Blake instead.

(Assuming that they didn't do something wacky with Thor recently to seperate Thor/Don Blake. In which case carry on - nothing to see here never mind, etc.)



"Don't Blame CANADA, Blame Yourselves!"
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 39 days
Last activity: 27 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.28
    Originally posted by Llakor
    (Assuming that they didn't do something wacky with Thor recently to seperate Thor/Don Blake. In which case carry on - nothing to see here never mind, etc.)


Nah, that spell was lifted from him a few years back. Regardless, it's a spell that forced Thor to have a mortal alter ego, so the argument could be made that it wouldn't carry over on a genetic level. Who knows.



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I picked up a copy of IDW Dredd #1 Wednesday and the owner of my local comic book shop told me he's surprised at how well it sold. He gave me the last copy he had for the week. I got the cover by Jim Starlin, btw.
Related threads: CIVIL WAR #4: ...shit hitting the fan AND my collection at the same time. - Civil War #1 - It all starts here! (spoilers) - Civil War - More...
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