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22.11.14 2357
The W - Print - CIVIL WAR #4: ...shit hitting the fan AND my collection at the same time.
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Cerebus
Scrapple








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 4 hours
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
(SPOILERS! Don't complain!)

Hey, let me first mention that I haven't picked up a comic in a few months and I wish It's False would have kept up his 52 posts cause now I'm gonna have to read them all in one sitting to catch up instead of just skimming his posts.

Ok, that done with, CIVIL WAR sucks ass.

It started out decent enough, even up till issue #3, but thanks to the delay and the horribleness of this issue, it puts a new light on how fucked up this shit is.

Tony Stark, along with Reed Richards and Hank Pym CLONED THOR from a strand of hair off Tony's couch. Yeah... they cloned a 'God'.

This series fucking sucks. I've liked Mark Millar's writing and I've ignored his lack of knowing characters in the past, but this shit shouldn't have seen the light of day. His Captain America sucks, his Reed Richards sucks, fuck, are ANY of the characters acting the way they are supposed to be acting? Reed Richards would NEVER clone heroes? That's something Dr Doom would do or a bad Spidey villan.

Seriously, why am I reading this shit?

...oh yeah, and they've killed off another black character, leaving the Marvel Universe with, what, like four afro-centric characters left in the whole fucking universe?

Fuck Marvel... Thanks for yet ANOTHER reason to read more DC books.
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CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.16
Yeah but think of the cool web banners!



When I'M doing them, you know the concept has jumped the shark! ;-)



CRZ
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 4 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.55
I agree with Cerebus on a lot of points. Cloning a GOD is just a HUUUUUUUGE stretch. And you can also file that under the bait-and-switch category, because it just means that Thor is STILL dead and has NOT, in fact, returned. That aspect of this issue was infuriating and enough to merit a thumbs down.

However, everything AFTER the cataclysmic fight was great. The twists with the defections and the big reveal at the end of the issue was reason enough to come back for #5. And how must Spider-man feel about having to fight side-by-side with Venom again?



TEN YEARS AGO IN WRESTLING HISTORY: SEPTEMBER 1996
WWF: Shawn Michaels d. Mankind at Mind Games, one of the 90's best matches. Also, some guy named Steve Austin made it his personal mission to bring Bret Hart back to the ring.

WCW: The nWo prevailed in War Games with the help of a Fake Sting. The real Sting walked out on WCW, kicking off one of the biggest angles in the company's history.
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.43
To top everything else off, it's not even staying within Civil War continuity established in other books.

In the last issue of FF, Thing calls both sides of the war wrong and leaves the country! Yet, there he is alongside Iron Man in CW #4.

I'll admit I'm not up on a lot of the books, but the issue of Amazing Spider-Man where Peter unmasked showed Eddie Brock looking very feeble in a hospital bed. So who's the guy at the end of CW #4?

The core book has been a disaster so far. I might be in the minority, but I hate Steve McNiven's artwork. And while Mark Millar rocks the house on Ultimates, I think he's carried too much of that Ultimate Marvel mentality over here, since, as Cerebus mentioned, EVERYONE'S out of character.

For my money, the good Civil War stories have been in the tie-ins. (For example, Civil War: Frontline, Amazing Spider-Man, FF, and New Avengers.)



My mom says sigs are bad for you.
Jericholic53
Boerewors








Since: 18.3.03
From: Honolulu, HI

Since last post: 347 days
Last activity: 15 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    but the issue of Amazing Spider-Man where Peter unmasked showed Eddie Brock looking very feeble in a hospital bed. So who's the guy at the end of CW #4?


He's "Venom III":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom_%28Marvel_comics_character%29#Venom_III

As far as CivilWar goes, I dig McNiven's stuff as it's reminiscent of Travis Charest's work, which I always liked. I'll admit Reed is acting extremely cold and it is definitely out of character. I always kind of saw an asshole vibe in Iron Man, so his behavior doesn't seem out of place to me. What I don't get is why Cable is leaving Cap's team; it's not like he hasn't seen his fair share of death and war before.

As far as the whole Thor thing goes, I'm pretty sure this is just a setup so that when the *real* Thor shows up in CW and starts kicking asses, it'll be a total mark out moment. (I'm pretty sure Thor has an ongoing slated for release after Civil War too.)



It says so right here in the wcw handbook!
Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2330 days
Last activity: 1761 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.12
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    To top everything else off, it's not even staying within Civil War continuity established in other books.

    In the last issue of FF, Thing calls both sides of the war wrong and leaves the country! Yet, there he is alongside Iron Man in CW #4.


Civil War #4 takes place between Fantastic Four #538 and #539. There you go.

I hate bad continuity as much as the next fanboy, but I wish people would make at least a little effort to reconcile apparent errors for themselves.
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 4 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.43
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
      Originally posted by SchippeWreck
      To top everything else off, it's not even staying within Civil War continuity established in other books.

      In the last issue of FF, Thing calls both sides of the war wrong and leaves the country! Yet, there he is alongside Iron Man in CW #4.


    Civil War #4 takes place between Fantastic Four #538 and #539. There you go.

    I hate bad continuity as much as the next fanboy, but I wish people would make at least a little effort to reconcile apparent errors for themselves.

You're right (snide potshots at me aside). I was thrown off by the fact that FF #539 was on 8/2, two weeks before CW #4 was originally supposed to hit shelves before it was delayed. (And Amazing Spider-Man #534, which follows the same events as FF #539, was released a week before that.) Add in the delay, and it feels like Thing left the country a LONG time ago.

In other words...my bad. Sheesh.



My mom says sigs are bad for you.
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 2440 days
Last activity: 2440 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.40
I can't recommend Civil War either. The tie-ins have been mixed. The Good: A.Spiderman, N. Avengers, X-Factor.
The Bad: FF, Wolverine, Runaways(which should be a lot better.)

The problem isn't the art and Bendis deserves more blame/credit for the story than Millar. The characters are too ultimate if that makes sense. The real Thor would never turn on Captain America. Too many heel turns for heroes. Iron Man is such an asshole, I can't believe anyone would buy his own comics.

What's the big deal about signing a piece of paper registering anyway, either sign or don't...who cares?
Another question: Who is the black hero who died? If I can't recognize him, it can't be a great loss.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 158 days
Last activity: 125 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
Black Goliath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Goliath


(edited by odessasteps on 23.9.06 1809)


Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
Jericholic53
Boerewors








Since: 18.3.03
From: Honolulu, HI

Since last post: 347 days
Last activity: 15 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    The real Thor would never turn on Captain America.


He hasn't. In CW #4 it's a clone of Thor, and Hank even asks if the clone is so malicious because he doesn't have the conscience of a man, implying that Donald Blake or Jake Olsen wouldn't have done what the clone did.

Recent issues of FF indicate that Donald Blake is indeed coming back, and as Thor. He just hasn't shown up in CW yet.



It says so right here in the wcw handbook!
estragand
Summer sausage








Since: 18.6.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.60
I'm okay with Civil War. Mainly because I've always been a big Avengers fan and the whole thing is Avenger-centric.

-The cloned Thor is a goofy idea, but it makes me think that Loki is behind the whole thing. Like, maybe he implanted the idea in Reed and Tony's heads. Similar to Golobulus implanting the idea of Serpentor in Dr. Mindbender. Yeahhh... relating anything to Cobra-La might not be a good sign.

-The mysterious "Ski Mask Man" who was hanging outside Cap's hideout seems like an interesting twist. It's Jarvis! He's the Higher Power!

-I don't know if it's been mentioned in issues of FF, but Bill Foster's death probably contributted to the Thing's disillusionment with the "War". Thing and Black Goliath/Giant-Man became good buddies in the early 80's in "Marvel Two-in-one".

-Cassie Lang/Giant-Girl's reason for caving in seemed fairly realistic to me.

-Did all you kids dig that Spawn cameo on the last page? It took me awhile to figure out who the guy in the pinky/pointy Mandarin-looking mask was. I settled on Jester.

-The CW crossovers in "Thunderbolts" would be relevant...if that book was allowed to have a bigger impact. I mean, Zemo's been making deals with BOTH sides. But it's all being shuffled under the rug for a goofy story with the Grandmaster.



-ES
Visit ES online- it's "Internet Entertainment"!
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 159 days
Last activity: 159 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.13
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Yeah but think of the cool web banners!



    When I'M doing them, you know the concept has jumped the shark! ;-)


aw... jumped the shark?

Does that mean its too late to make a Charlie Murphy banner?



"I'm tired of humans telling me what God thinks. If pandas told us what God thinks, we would all be eating bamboo!"

-me during a serious religious debate
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.52
Did they not learn their lesson the last time a clone was involved in a big storyline??
I liked this idea when it started, but too many characters started acting out of character WAY too soon, especially Iron Man and Reed. I don't care how bad things get, Reed would NEVER recruit the vicious bastards on the last page.
I agree that this series is too much like the Ultimate universe, even though I like some of those books. The genie is just to far out of the bottle in the 616 Univ. now, too many characters are nowhere near what made them appealing to fans in the 1st place.
I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE HULK TO RETURN TO KICK ALL OF THERE ASSES!! They all deserve it now.



Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.43
I think the real problem with Civil War is that it just doesn't work as a concept. Captain America is the moral center of the Marvel Universe. Cap's side, by definition, is always the right side. There is no honest way to turn the better chunk of Marvel's superhero community against him, short of mind control. And has already been mentioned, Millar's inability to write anyone in character hasn't been helping either. Despite the fact that Civil War is supposed to be the company's big event, I find myself enjoying the cosmic stuff over in Annihilation much more.
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from the BBC: Nobel Prize-winning playwright Harold Pinter, who had cancer, died on Christmas Eve aged 78.
- odessasteps, RIP Harold Pinter (2008)
Related threads: Civil War #1 - It all starts here! (spoilers) - Civil War - More...
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