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The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Jericho is not too pleased with you smarks.
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Kawshen
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Bronx, NY

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#1 Posted on
http://www.chrisjericho.com/commentary.htm

Just read.

(edited by Kawshen on 24.6.02 1430)



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Wonder how quickly posters on this board will turn on him?

Wonder how many posters on this board will refuse to believe he's talking about them when in reality, he is?



--Jason Baldwin
Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Damn. I really liked his commentaries too...oh, excuse me...

JERICHO READS THE TORCH!!I WONDER IF HE READS SLASH~!

Anyway, I don't think the match was as great as JEricho claims, but it was probably the best of the night.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

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-Norman Smiley

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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#4 Posted on
Well, I hope you're all satisfied! Is this the kind of backlash the smark world was looking for?! Chris Jericho was one of the few wrestlers who'd connect with the Internet fanbase and now the smarks have pissed him off!

Jeez, I never thought I'd say this, but Hyatte is right! Alleged "smarks" just bash for the sake of bashing and it's starting to get to people like Jericho and, honestly, can you blame him? How long will it take for Lance Storm or any of the others (I say that because I can't really think of any others besides Jericho and Storm) who connect with the online fanbase to turn on the Internet because of negative bastards like the guys on the Torch and the blind sheep who just nod with anything they say? Stop watching the show like a damn critic and watch as a fan! If this trend keeps up, the only online commentary we'll have to look forward to is the Warrior's and NOBODY wants that!
Debaser
Mettwurst








Since: 22.3.02

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#5 Posted on
Hmph. That's... um... something. The thing is that the bitterest Smarks tend to be the biggest Jericho supporters, as far as I can tell. The people who aren't always down on the company and wrestling in general are often at least somewhat down on Jericho as a way to justify his uneven push.

But, you know, whatever. He's probably right that some of us (hell, a lot of us, maybe even all of us a lot of the time) are unduly critical, but:

A. I forget who said it, but I know someone did: Never trust an artist's critique of his own work. I didn't see the match, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his best work because, well most of everybody's work isn't their best.

B. Given that, as I've said above, tossing Jericho's salad is practically a smark initiation ritual, he really shouldn't let a few contrary assholes turn him on his biggest fanbase.

C. I'd feel feel better about his righteous indignation if he had chosen to take this stand on the panning of someone else's match. Here it's a bit self-serving, even if he is maybe right.
OlFuzzyBastard
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#6 Posted on
Preach it, brother! I couldn't agree with him more. The WWE isn't the greatest it's ever been, but people on the Internet are WAY too cynical, and must find some way to hate everything.

(And, on the rare occasions they do like something, they start bitching about how it's going to get screwed up later on anyway...)

And imagine how aggrivating we must be to everyone else, considering the fact that Y2J sits with Angle and Benoit as the Internet's holy trinity.



"It's a sad day when mocking one's opponent via midget becomes an acceptable form of entertainment."
--Lance Storm
DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#7 Posted on
Serves him right for reading the Torch.

Aren't they bashed weekly in the Smarkies at OO?!?

I [heart] Jericho.

(edited by DrOp on 24.6.02 1520)


Your Suffering Will Be Legendary, Even in Hell!!

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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on
Hahaha. I've always been in the middle of the road with Chris Jericho. I do think he has improved over the last half year. If you recall his match with RVD a while back he was blowing even simple spots. Falling off the top rope missing the Lionsault badly. Since then he has become a consistant preformer.

I find it funny that of all the wrestlers HE'S the one bitching about the Net now. This man is hailed as a God by most the people on the internet. He is the poster child for the WWE conspiricy. If anyone has a right to bitch it should be HHH, Kane or even the Hardys.

Jericho has also started something that he cannot win. Even if he's right. I do see his point, but for him to lash out at *The Comic Book Guys* on the Net seems a bit absurd, when they are greatly out numbered by those who adore him, mosreso than I think that he deserves.

EDIT: That or he's trying to justify his current spot on the card.

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 24.6.02 1547)


Fuzzy Logic
Summer sausage








Since: 31.3.02
From: Happy Valley - Goose Bay, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada

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#9 Posted on
It's just a shame that the comic book guys seem to have the loudest voices.
vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

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#10 Posted on
My take: While I empathize with the artist's resentment towards those who criticize his works unjustly, LIGHTEN UP, FRANCIS.

The one site he mentions by name is the Torch. Fine, let's cut to the in-depth slagging of the RVD-Jericho match (excerpted for your protection):

Keller's "official" commentary:
"This should get the PPV off to a good start."
"The opening few minutes were strong and well-paced."
"...near fall which popped the crowd. Nice sequence."
"...Good crowd heat."
"Very good action."
"That's a big elevation for RVD to get a decisive PPV pin in someone of Jericho's stature."

Looks good so far, doesn't? Now for the unwashed masses -- excuse me, reader feedback.

Reader 1: Shits on the majority of the PPV, "RVD and Y2J looked like they were wrestling in slow motion."
Reader 2: "...RVD and Jericho had the worst match of their careers." Okay, here Jericho has a point. Now for the rest:
Reader 3: "Best match: RVD vs. Jericho."
Reader 4: "The KotR semifinal matches were awesome."
Reader 5: "Best match: RVD vs. Jericho."
Reader 6: Shits on the PPV in general.
Reader 7: Shits on the PPV in general, "... a KotR win was MUCH more deserved by the likes of Jericho, RVD or Booker t who are "stars" on the cusp of "superstardom."
Reader 8: "Best match: RVD vs. Jericho."
Reader 9: "Best match: RVD vs. Jericho."
Reader 10: "Best match: RVD vs. Jericho."
Reader 11: Shits on the PPV in general, "The undercard went well."

Not exactly a ringing condemnation, is it? Half the respondents put the match as best-of-the-night, and those who didn't either spoke of it well or were so turned off by the Senior Division uppercard matches that they didn't care about anything else.

Are there overcritical s/marks? Sure, there are. Did Jericho and RVD put on a perfectly fine match? Sure, they did. But, much like everywhere else in this world, no one wrestling match will please everyone. A time portal could've opened up and dropped in-their-primes-and-healthy Flair, Steamboat, Kawada, Jumbo Tsuruta, Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask into the ring for a sixty-minute six-man match, and some yahoos in the front row would still yell "BORING" because they weren't seeing any puppies and HHH and the Rock weren't in it.

And so it goes. This isn't Chris Jericho ravaging the Internet as a whole; this is Jericho seeing two yutzes among the first wave of feedback and going apeshit. The sun will come up tomorrow no matter how many stars Harvey from Honolulu gives his match.




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AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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Y!:
#11 Posted on
Wow. I thought he said PWTorch not 411....



Where's Corporal Kirchner when we need him??
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#12 Posted on
Perhaps we're seeing one small glimpse into the pressure cooker that the WWE's internal politics has become. Everyone constantly having to try and defend themselves, becoming sensitive to the smallest slights. I mean really, if you're going to pop, last night really wasn't a night that seems worth doing it over. We've said far meaner things about Chris and others over the last few years than 99.9% of the net said about his match last night. And if he's done with us, oh well. If I pay for the product, then I believe it's my inherent right to critique it in any way I desire. If the performer then chooses to ignore that, so be it, I can then choose whether or not to continue patronizing their product.

And one last thing. I know it's always fun to slag "smarks" and "geeks" as an irrelevant part of the fanbase, but without those obsessive types who vocally pumped for him back when he was with WAR, SMW, and ECW, he'd never have gotten enough buzz to become a millionaire working for the largest wrestling company in the world. Even once he got to WCW, it was people like us who were the most vocal supporters who helped create the buzz around him which made him desirable enough to get the Y2J push that he got. If we net geeks hadn't made him one of our poster children, I think the odds of him being in a feud with Jaime Knoble over Nidia would be pretty good, instead of having had a 3 month run as WWF World Champion. But you know what, we did like Jericho. I still do like Jericho. I loved his match last night. I look forward to seeing him on my tv this week. If that's today less important to him than it was yesterday, I can't much say I give a shit.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#13 Posted on
I've got to make the same point here that I made when discussing the entire Austin situation: Every man has its limit. Austin could only put up with so much bad booking of his character before doing something about it (walking out of the business, possibly for good). Chris Jericho could only put up with so much criticism of his character and his workrate before doing something about it (what we have here).

Face it, guys - this was probably going to happen at some point. Jericho hadn't posted a commentary since the week before JPL squashed him at Wrestlemania, so this frustration he's exhibiting has probably been building up for a while. (Otherwise, he would've made the time to speak to the masses.) And why wouldn't it? Jericho has done nothing but carry Rock at No Mercy, Rock & Austin at Vengeance, Rock again at Royal Rumble, Austin again at No Way Out, JPL at Wrestlemania & Judgment Day, and now RVD last night. He's done nothing but bring about a complete and total revolution in his character in the past nine months. He's done nothing but wade through backstage politics and incredibly crappy booking to be the best entertainer he can. And yet people still shit on him as if he's still cutting bland babyface promos and slipping up night after night in the ring, of which he's doing neither.

Who wouldn't blow a gasket over that?

The bottom line is, the man couldn't be more right. We as a community have to start noticing the good things amongst all the bad things (and yes, they are there). We gotta start giving the Federation the benefit of the doubt of most things. (We all know which things they don't deserve that for, so I won't say them.) It's not like Vince McMahon is ever gonna give us the book, anyway...

Let's stop thinking before watching, for once.



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CRZ: Umm, I heard it the FIRST time!
-- WWF Smackdown, 9/9/99

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Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#14 Posted on
A few points to be made about Jericho's commentary in an attempt to add a little perspective.

1) He was referring to the Torch. I quit reading the Torch quite some time ago because I was tired of the constant complaints of "fans" who really just want to see their names (and words) in print. If someone really didn't like something, they would simply stop watching. After watching a couple of episodes I decided that I didn't like HBO's "The Mind of the Married Man" and "Curb Your Enthusiasm". Did I go to an HBO Web site and complain? No. I just didn't watch the shows.

2) Jericho seems to love "kayfabe" on his Web site. When he turned heel, the tone/demeanor of his commentaries changed to fit the character. He may be rightfully upset, he just expressed his distaste as a heel.

3) Jericho hasn't been too concerned about his Web site in quite a long time. His previous update was from March when he was still undisputed champ. I'm guessing that the one before that was from November/December or somewhere in that time frame.

4) Jericho didn't really say anything that Storm didn't say about the DVD 500 back a little less than a year ago. Storm just used tact and broke "kayfabe" when he made his statement (he didn't go for cheap heat).

5) I didn't buy the PPV, so I can't make judgments about the match. However, I know that if you feel passionately about what you do, unwarranted criticism will piss you off. I play golf. I belong to a country club and our Men's Association (of which I'm a board member) did one of our annual tournaments this weekend. I probably put in thirty hours or so working on this tournament this week alone. A few people bitched about silly stuff. I didn't get paid for what I did. I do it because I want to enhance everyone's experience. I definitely don't want to put up with bullshit from people who never lift a finger to help. Jericho does get paid handsomely, but he has a point.

Give Chris a break. He's blowing off steam.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    The bottom line is, the man couldn't be more right. We as a community have to start noticing the good things amongst all the bad things (and yes, they are there). We gotta start giving the Federation the benefit of the doubt of most things. (We all know which things they don't deserve that for, so I won't say them.) It's not like Vince McMahon is ever gonna give us the book, anyway...

    Let's stop thinking before watching, for once.


Why do we have to give the benefit of the doubt? Do I give a restaurant the benefit of the doubt if there's rat shit in my food? No, I complain and refuse to ever go to that restaurant again unless they I see some severe changes. The same holds true for wrestling. They are a business whose job it is to entertain people. Last night there were things I enjoyed and was entertained by. But there were some things which detracted from that enjoyment, and some things which couldn't entertain me if the tv started shooting $20's at me to keep me watching.

The WWE and the wrestlers want it both ways. So often people like to say we don't know what's going on. We can't understand what's happening. We're not in the back. And all of these sound reasonable to me. But if this is true, why are they letting themselves get up in arms over the rantings of some pasty-faced losers on the net in their mother's basements? Why should they care what our opinion is? We don't know anything and we only make up a tiny portion of the fanbase right?

Or do they recognize that the net has been the canary in the mineshaft over the last 10 years? That it was the net that was obsessing over ECW long before they had a glimmer of PPV or TNN. That it was the net which was also complaining bitterly about ECW a year before it collapsed (ECW mutants of course excluded from this point). That the net was watching WCW circle the drain for 2 years, while everyone else said there was no way they could ever go under, and look at the high ratings they're still getting. In the last 8 or so years I've noticed that the IWC seems to often be ahead of the curve on a lot of things. And right now we're NOT happy with WWE. And we're not going to become happy with them all of a sudden because their feelings are hurt or they yell at us. Put on good programming, and I promise to be nice and not hurt all the big bad wrestlers feelings. But until then, this is a cold world in which we live. And if you run a business, sometimes your patrons are going to say you suck.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3590 days
Last activity: 2010 days
#16 Posted on
I still don't get why he went to all places "The Torch" to get realistic or normal feedback you are going to the wrong place. I'm pretty convinced that the put up only the most outrages comments and leave out the boring/normal kind. I mean I've heard Torch readers compliment a match and a show but there "guy" didnt' win so they give it a "zero"

A few dissed him (and agree or disagree, at least it seemed they payed for the PPV which recently went up in cost) but most stated and I agreed that he was one of the few shining moments in the entire PPV

But it this way, you go to a resturant and side dishes were good (rvd/y2j, molly/trish) but the main course tasted awful, you leave the place with a negative feel. The main event was just awful so people had a negative feel looking back to the entire show. Even though there were some decent stuff and probabley didn't deserve the 1's or 2's people give, But I think giving it a 5 is pushing it



I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
CajunMan
Boudin blanc
No longer registered








Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

Since last post: 1100 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
So Jericho has declared war on the Torch/Smarks. I will not lose sleep.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4466 days
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by spf2119
    And right now we're NOT happy with WWE. And we're not going to become happy with them all of a sudden because their feelings are hurt or they yell at us. Put on good programming, and I promise to be nice and not hurt all the big bad wrestlers feelings. But until then, this is a cold world in which we live. And if you run a business, sometimes your patrons are going to say you suck.
Your argument is flawed. I am going to change the specifics of it to illustrate why it is flawed.

Long John Silvers doesn't serve anything that I want to eat, but I REALLY want to eat there dammit! It makes me mad that people who eat there enjoy it when I, in fact, do not. Obviously something is wrong. I think that Long John Silvers should change their menu so that I want to eat there even though this would disappoint the people who are current customers. If they don't accommodate me then they're obviously missing out on a huge part of the market. Me. I am going to tell EVERYONE I hate Long John Silvers even though it won't change anything.

Watch what you like. Don't watch what you don't like.



--Jason Baldwin
Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
HBK 2002
Linguica








Since: 17.2.02

Since last post: 4329 days
Last activity: 4323 days
#19 Posted on
Funny. Jericho and Ross have attacked the fans who are STILL WATCHING. There's a reason so many people have turned away from wrestling in the last year. It's not because 'net fans are too cynical. It's because the product has sucked.

'Net fans still watch because they like wrestling and want to enjoy the best product possible! Why attack the ones who care enough not to turn away?
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 722 days
Last activity: 48 days
#20 Posted on
Astounding. I had no idea internet fans were that dangerous. I would imagine that someone pretty secure could separate valid criticsm on how he makes his living from heatseeking douchebags who just like to bitch about everything, but I see I was wrong.

You know, I find it real hard to get worked up about this. Smarks don't need this kinda validation--"Ooo! See? People DO pay attention to us!"

And blaming the internet for your problems makes you look like WCW in its dying days. And really now one wants that.

So uhm, yeah. I have no idea the lasting importance of this (I'm guessing somewhere around none) but one thing's for sure--this thread's gonna run several pages as people point at each other and say "You're the kinda smark who bitches about wrestling no matter what!" "No, YOU are!"






-LS
"Confucious, he say, "Name go in book."
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I'm not sure Khali is physically able to be FU'd. Lifted yes, but flipped, dunno. I think going more than 8 minutes would've been asking a lot of these guys too. I would figure this is the best possible way to do that match.
- JustinShapiro, WWE Judgment Day 2007 Results (2007)
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