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25.10.14 2054
The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Benoit passes away (Page 32)
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CajunMan
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#621 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
On the Bright side I'm glad to see Lex Luger has finally cleaned his act up. Anybody know how Scott Hall is doing?



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#622 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.52
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Anybody know how Scott Hall is doing?
Fat.



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#623 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.94


You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"Yep....and was it really necessary having the woman keep glancing down at his penis?" (Kevintripod)


    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by CajunMan
      Anybody know how Scott Hall is doing?
    Fat.


Old news. Here's some newness:




From WWC, and allegedly blind stinking sober.

(edited by drjayphd on 19.7.07 0211)


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Since: 11.5.03
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#624 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
(From PWTorch.com)

>The NY Daily News reports that the family of Nancy Benoit is infuriated with WWE for allowing Jim Ross to attend the memorial service for Nancy and Daniel. The News reports that Ross was not an invited guest, and "were incensed he made a colorful entrance, including his trademark black cowboy hat."<

I wonder if Fit Finlay and Vickie Guerrero weren't invited either, but for them the family let it slide.






(edited by Kevintripod on 19.7.07 0721)


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Since: 19.8.05
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#625 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
Quite a turnout at that Scott Hall event pictured above, huh?
I really hope he is staying clean, as he has one of the most creative minds in wrestling, and could still really contribute to the industry in a creative capacity. As one of my favorites in the 90s, I hope I never have to read a Scott hall thread similar to the one on Kronus right now.




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Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

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#626 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
To bring it full circle, Scott Hall faced Carlito in a show in Puerto Rico quite recently. I hope he is doing well, because those pictures are scary.

With another low Raw rating this week, are we ready to say that the Benoit stuff has indeed impacting the viewership of WWE? I know that Smackdown last week actually was up a few points (2.7 from 2.3/2.4), but Raw has been down and ECW is back down even lower than it used to be (1.37).

What can Vince do to get fans disenfranchised back after all this whirlwind of junk from the Benoit story? Can he change the Wellness Program, or at least ramp up the testing schedule? Or will the Jackass angle magically bring people back?

Benoit loved the business of pro wrestling, but as I stated before, his actions might be what cripples the very company he loved.



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Since: 7.2.02

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#627 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    Old news. Here's some newness:


Is it me or does he look like Ian McShane from Deadwood?








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Since: 25.1.02
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#628 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
    Originally posted by Leroy
      Originally posted by drjayphd
      Old news. Here's some newness:


    Is it me or does he look like Ian McShane from Deadwood?






That might be the greatest gimmick ever.

No one tell Vince.



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Since: 11.5.02

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#629 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.75
    Originally posted by kentish
    I really hope he is staying clean, as he has one of the most creative minds in wrestling, and could still really contribute to the industry in a creative capacity.

Really?

Nothing has ever suggested to me that Hall has anything special to add to the creative side of the business. He's never really been involved in any booking and even admitted in the recent Torch Talk interview that he would refuse to come up with any of his own stuff in WCW just to be awkward after Bischoff fired Sean Waltman.

I'm a huge Scott Hall fan by the way. I've just never heard his name referenced when discussing the creative side of things.



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Since: 25.3.06

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#630 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
Ive heard of Scott Hall being a "creative mind" several times in shoot interview, and even as recently as the latest WWE 24/7 show, Heatseekers. The panel all take turns talking about what a creative mind he had, though they never give any specifics. Maybe it's a joke or something, like when you call a big fat guy "Tiny" (ex. Tiny Lister)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#631 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
    Originally posted by Torchslasher
    Benoit loved the business of pro wrestling, but as I stated before, his actions might be what cripples the very company he loved.


I don't know that you can say with certainty that he loved that company, specifically, at least not after the way they handled the aftermath of Eddie Guerrero's death. I'm not saying he disliked them, considering he continued to work there and never publicly complained about their exploiting his death (and considering he himself didn't stop using steroids). But I wouldn't guarantee he was all that enamoured with them.

His actions could cripple the company, but they could also bring about positive change, even if it's only something as minor as closing the prescription loophole in the Wellness Policy as opposed to sweeping changes brought on from the outside.
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Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#632 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by CTX
      Originally posted by kentish
      I really hope he is staying clean, as he has one of the most creative minds in wrestling, and could still really contribute to the industry in a creative capacity.

    Really?

    Nothing has ever suggested to me that Hall has anything special to add to the creative side of the business. He's never really been involved in any booking and even admitted in the recent Torch Talk interview that he would refuse to come up with any of his own stuff in WCW just to be awkward after Bischoff fired Sean Waltman.

    I'm a huge Scott Hall fan by the way. I've just never heard his name referenced when discussing the creative side of things.


While never a part of booking committees that I am aware of, he apparently had plenty of creative ideas during his hey day in WCW. As mentioned above, I have also seen shoots by Shawn, Russo, and Nash where they talk about how creative he was. The Bischoff and Shawn books discuss it as well, I believe. I have heard from several of these sources that he came up with most of the NWO stuff, including the logo, the black and white color scheme, and most of the hand gestures and catchphrases.

Plus playing your character perfectly is a sign of creativity in my opinion. Whatever happened after he fell apart may be a different story, but from everything I have heard, he had a lot to contribute to the industry, and still could.




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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#633 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
He suggested the Sting Crow gimmick and was also supposedly very good on coming up with finishes.
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Since: 17.11.02

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#634 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
Seeing as this thread has finally started to get off topic and it seems that most of us are wanting to get this whole mess behind us, how about just closing this up?

Can we maybe put it to a vote or something?

It's been three weeks already, I'm pretty sure there's not a whole hell of a lot more you people can add that would have any deep seeded meaning or what not.
CxMorgado
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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

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#635 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I watched Fit Finlay on Nancy Grace, and read the transcript, and I still don't see why everyone keeps saying he embarrassed himself because he didn't know the company drug policy. His information was exactly the same as Alvarez', only with the additional statement that the prescription only "saves" you if Dr Black feels it is legitimate. The only thing I saw that made him look bad in regards to the policy was that it turned out Alvarez had gotten his info from Jerry McDevitt, the WWE attorney, and so in that regard him ever being backstage or a wrestler was irrelevant. And even then, Alvarez was implying that the prescription was a get out of jail free card that instantly gets the wrestler off scot free, when it supposedly requires the testing agency to investigate before clearing the wrestler; Finlay's point was that Dr. Black can call it bogus and then you're effed. Now as to whether or not that actually happens... I couldn't say.

I dunno, it seems to me theres an awful lot of nit picking going on, not just from the expected "media" sources, but from wrestling fans and writers when it comes to any statements meant to show that the WWE actually has been trying to combat the drug problem in wrestling. As recently as a year ago people were complementing the WWE on enforcing the Wellness Policy; now they are attacking it as a complete failure due to the deaths of either people who never were involved with the company when the Wellness policy was in effect or who had developed their addictions before coming to the WWE. The point being made regarding these "wrestling death lists" being almost all wrestlers who got started in the late 70s/80s/early 90s time period IS a very valid point, yet every where I turn I see it being nit picked at ad nauseum. Meltzer even has a letter on the front page of the Observer site right now about how awful it is of Chavo to go on tv and say that its a problem with 70s and 80s era guys when both his uncle and his best friend are now dead, but that "party like a rock star era" being talked about was the era those guys broke into. Should they be giving us the exact dates of just when that era of lifestyle started and when it petered out and calmed down? I find it hard to believe that we will only believe the wrestler's who haven't been around the company since they have started testing over the guys who have dealt with this version of the Wellness policy, just because those guys still draw a paycheck. And if they don't draw a paycheck but have dealt with policy? Then they're kissing McMahons ass. That makes no sense to me.

People go on and on about Benoit's 59-1 testosterone to epi-testosterone ratio and the WWE's "spin" to make it sound like that isn't an obscene amount of steroids, but the fact is 59-1 is not 10x the normal amount of testosterone; its a ratio of 59 testosterone for every 1 epi-testosterone. A guy on the Wrestlecrap forums brought this up, and I confirmed it with several friends of mine who have experience with steroids. Benoit's testosterone was 207 nanograms. The normal amount is 150. His epi-testosterone was 3.51. If the ratio is supposed to be 1-1 and the normal amount is 150, then that's incredibly low. So while the testosterone is higher, it's only about 30% higher, and the epi-testosterone is very low, which DOES in fact coincide with having had a recent hormone therapy treatment, as testosterone converts to epi-testosterone. If it hadn't been a recent shot, the levels would have been different as the testosterone would have had time to break down. Thats why experienced steroid users DON'T use straight testosterone alone; they stack it with other types of steroids so as to avoid the side effects of the extra epi-testosterone that starts developing. Yes, testosterone is a steroid, but not in the sense that the media wants to use it, which is as an anabolic steroid used for body building. Thats what the WWE is trying to say, the problem is they apparantly don't trust anyone to understand how it can be a steroid but not be a "STEROID".

The NFL and MLB may have better and more stringent testing, but athletes there are still using steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Is it really fair to attack wrestling and say they aren't trying hard enough for having a drug test that some guys are probably getting around when guys are getting around the drug tests in the sports whose programs are being held up as better than the WWE's?

(My computer is being so slow that I actually started writing this before Cerebus' suggestion; if people don't want to discuss this mess anymore and want to close the thread thats fine, I'm not trying to open it back up again just cuz it went off topic or cuz someone suggested it be done or anything.)

(edited by CxMorgado on 19.7.07 2252)


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#636 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.97
It's been three weeks already, I'm pretty sure there's not a whole hell of a lot more you people can add that would have any deep seeded meaning or what not.

Thank you, Ross Perot





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Since: 13.2.03
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#637 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.74
    Originally posted by CxMorgado
    People go on and on about Benoit's 59-1 testosterone to epi-testosterone ratio and the WWE's "spin" to make it sound like that isn't an obscene amount of steroids, but the fact is 59-1 is not 10x the normal amount of testosterone; its a ratio of 59 testosterone for every 1 epi-testosterone. A guy on the Wrestlecrap forums brought this up, and I confirmed it with several friends of mine who have experience with steroids. Benoit's testosterone was 207 nanograms. The normal amount is 150. His epi-testosterone was 3.51. If the ratio is supposed to be 1-1 and the normal amount is 150, then that's incredibly low. So while the testosterone is higher, it's only about 30% higher, and the epi-testosterone is very low, which DOES in fact coincide with having had a recent hormone therapy treatment, as testosterone converts to epi-testosterone. If it hadn't been a recent shot, the levels would have been different as the testosterone would have had time to break down. Thats why experienced steroid users DON'T use straight testosterone alone; they stack it with other types of steroids so as to avoid the side effects of the extra epi-testosterone that starts developing. Yes, testosterone is a steroid, but not in the sense that the media wants to use it, which is as an anabolic steroid used for body building. Thats what the WWE is trying to say, the problem is they apparantly don't trust anyone to understand how it can be a steroid but not be a "STEROID".

    The NFL and MLB may have better and more stringent testing, but athletes there are still using steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Is it really fair to attack wrestling and say they aren't trying hard enough for having a drug test that some guys are probably getting around when guys are getting around the drug tests in the sports whose programs are being held up as better than the WWE's?


The reason we are having to get into such minutiae such as t/e ratios is that WWE is such a closed business. There's no mainstream media that covers pro wrestling, and the WWE is as tight-lipped as they can manage to keep things from leaking out to the "dirtsheets". Meltzer, Alvarez, Keller, etc. is what we have for journalism in this industry - or you can go with the party line, and accept what is spoon-fed onto WWE.com, right?

So what has the WWE response been to date? One-sided press releases, plenty of blaming the messenger, taking their "Wellness Policy" offline to keep people from examining it too closely, sending Cena out to handle softballs from Larry King, while having lawyer McDevitt go on the "harder" shows - and even then he refuses to have any dialogue with guests that know better (possibly embarrassing to WWE) questions.

Instead of pointing to the Wellness policy put into place as evidence that they've been proactive, and willing to look at how they might improve, it's been a stonewall so far. As Lance Storm said, the industry tends to default to it's carny roots when criticized.

Getting back to testosterone levels, I believe I saw something that said that the 150 nanogram 'normal level' quoted by Dr. Black was misleading, in that 150ng is the highest theoretical level that can happen naturally (as in "genetic freak" level), but for the average person a normal level is 30 to 60 nanograms. I had this same question when Floyd Landis popped on last years' Tour de France - he tested at something like 11:1, but could one have a "normal" level of testosterone, and a high ratio because your epi-testosterone is unnaturally low? (Benoit's 3.51 epi-testosterone level was 10 times below that of a "normal" person, apparently due to past steroid abuse.)

** What I would like answered, did I hear Dr. Black say that once an athlete is approved for testosterone replacement therapy, the t/e ratio test is no longer useful for identifying steroid abuse? That would certainly explain how Benoit could get a 10-11 month supply of testosterone every 3 weeks, and never fail the WWE test. And I believe Dr. Black went on to say that you can only find the # of nanograms present with a blood test - are wrestlers like Benoit given blood tests in lieu of the urine tests which apparently are invalid in those cases? **

The alternative would appear to be that if you can get a doctor to prescribe replacement therapy, a worker could abuse testosterone without triggering a "positive" test.




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Since: 5.7.03

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#638 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    I had this same question when Floyd Landis popped on last years' Tour de France - he tested at something like 11:1, but could one have a "normal" level of testosterone, and a high ratio because your epi-testosterone is unnaturally low?

I think that was Landis' defense, that his epitestosterone was low. Or one of his defenses, at least.

    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    ** What I would like answered, did I hear Dr. Black say that once an athlete is approved for testosterone replacement therapy, the t/e ratio test is no longer useful for identifying steroid abuse? That would certainly explain how Benoit could get a 10-11 month supply of testosterone every 3 weeks, and never fail the WWE test. And I believe Dr. Black went on to say that you can only find the # of nanograms present with a blood test - are wrestlers like Benoit given blood tests in lieu of the urine tests which apparently are invalid in those cases? **

    The alternative would appear to be that if you can get a doctor to prescribe replacement therapy, a worker could abuse testosterone without triggering a "positive" test.


They shouldn't be able to abuse anything if the levels in their body are tested. I would imagine that goes into what the policy doctor was saying about doing blood tests instead of paying attention to their ratio, but who knows.
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#639 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.66
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    It's been three weeks already, I'm pretty sure there's not a whole hell of a lot more you people can add that would have any deep seeded meaning or what not.

    Thank you, Ross Perot




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Since: 15.7.02

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#640 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.07
So the Toxicology report comes out, shows Xanax in his system, and noone makes ANY mention?

The side effects from Xanax, mirror this situation in a scary scary way.

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