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The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Benoit passes away (Page 29)
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CajunMan
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#561 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
Linda/Vince no showed!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm curious if they respond to Bill now?

(edited by CajunMan on 11.7.07 1928)


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Since: 21.2.02
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#562 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.97
Egg on everyone's face! (except Mike Johnson)

But, for anyone who didn't know when to tune in - and were waiting (for nothing as it turns out), got some gay bashing and "you are NUTS to think that anyone fear mongers!". Now's some race baiting. Bonds hating. OJ was named dropped! Enough...I ain't sicking around for Dennis Miller

A conspiracy awaits to be reported! EGG ON YOUR FACE

FLEA



(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 11.7.07 2036)


Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high

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Since: 17.1.02
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#563 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
You all should have watched Nancy Grace tonight. The usual suspects were on, like Billy Graham, Marc Mero (and I didn't even recognize him at first), Bryan Alvarez and others. They also had on Johnny Grunge's widow on, and that was the saddest part of the show.

Overall, the show was very frenetic, and it was hard to follow it all. I had never seen the Nancy Grace show, and I doubt I could do it again. It was way too jumbled and rushed...it's like the TNA Impact of news shows (sorry if I'm the 20'th person to make that joke).



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Since: 8.6.02
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#564 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.93
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Bret Hart's line about the janitors that work in the offices having more benefits then the actual wrestlers made me laugh.


Well, my buddy's a janitor and he's got more benefits than any wrestler. Of course, he works for the city, but still.

Are people actually arguing that because Keller "makes his living" from wrestling, he should be okay with everything that happens in it? Pop psychology that seeks to define his motives is really out-of-place here, in my opinion. While some of those questions were certainly off-base, incest angles and the gay and race-baiting questions in particular, most are still questions that need to be answered, as they speak to the utterly demented carny attitude Vince McMahon has. If this were some carnival-tent two-bit wrestling operation, fine, but Vince's perverse mentality is dangerous when you put him at the helm of a company as rich and powerful as WWE. Someone needs to take this man to task for the shit he's pulled over the years. Benoit is monster according to Vince McMahon---who did everything in his power to get Snuka out of trouble for doing basically the same thing, which has been referenced in this thread. If the press paid wrestling the respect it deserved and just covered it---if not as a sport, than as entertainment---some lives might be saved. And to be fair, Keller has been on about the same things for years, guys. Even if it is off-topic, if this can be spun around to getting every guy two full months off a year, then hey, some good has come of a horrible, horrible situation.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#565 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
There are certainly valid questions buried amongst all the hyperbole and baiting, but most of what Keller puts forward are designed as sticky wicket questions. The BS about WWE "allowing" Benoit to do the diving headbutt, for example. WWE works one of the safest in-ring styles, if not THE safest in-ring style, in the world. Numerous moves are outlawed or placed under strict controls.

The qestion about Benoit being tested in April, and how that allowed for him to take steroids in the two months since, is also asinine. Keller seems to be suggesting that the company should test on every single day, which is impractical and silly.

Refering to Benoit's time off last year as him reaching "breaking point" is incredibly irresponsible journalism. Every single news report last year on that subject stated that Benoit took some well-deserved time off nagging injuries and family time, and that he was also miffed that a match with Dean Malenko at One Night Stand had been kiboshed. Keller makes it sound like the guy was removed from the road due a breakdown.

Giving Kurt Angle's comments any kind of credence whatsoever is especially shoddy. Keller's on the inside as much as anyone else, and he's familiar with the ins and outs of Kurt's dealing with WWE. They fired him when he refused to go to rehab for Christ's sake. And he's spent the last eight months bullshitting about anything and everything. He regularly lied about his age earlier this year. Ditto on Piper.

But this is the part that taes the cake:

"
* Over the past few weeks, we have heard wrestlers and wrestling experts talk about how Benoit was a fantastic person and one of the best, most respected, and most popular professional wrestlers on the planet. With that in mind, why was he not given the main event opportunities of lesser established and less respected wrestlers such as current headliners Bobby Lashey, John Cena, or Batista?

* Is Bobby Lashley really getting a main event slot right now because he's a great wrestler or a great talker or a great all-around entertainer or super-popular with fans? Or is it because he has "the look" and you're just hoping everything else will fall into place? What kind of message does it send to everyone else on the roster - and teenagers who want to become pro wrestlers - when Lashley is promoted as a main eventer long before his popularity, in-ring skills, or mic skills justify that position?"

So WWE were supposed to push Benoit and pay him a bundle because people thought he was a swell guy? It's not up to anyone to dictate who Vince McMahon pushes and why, and it's certainly not the role of a bullshit talkshow host like O'Reilly to quiz him on how "talented" Benoit was compared to guys like Cena and Batista. What's next? A televised intervention on behalf of Shelton Benjamin's career?

Keller's trying to score points, plain and simple. The entire list reads like a plea for wrestlers to be absolved of all personal responsability in favour of blames the great McMahon-shaped Satan, and that's a gross oversimplification of the issue. If he shapes his argument to fit the hysteria of the mainstream press, he stands a chance of being picked up as "respected wrestling journalist Wade Keller, who just happens to agree with every Nancy Grace has to say! We must be right!".That seems to be what he's aiming for.





To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
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Since: 2.11.02
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#566 Posted on
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    There are certainly valid questions buried amongst all the hyperbole and baiting, but most of what Keller puts forward are designed as sticky wicket questions.


In broad agreement with your sentiment, but just to pick up on one more thing from the Keller questions (with apologies if I missed someone else doing so)

How much notice do WWE wrestlers have before they are drug tested? If it's even five minutes, isn't that enough time to consume masking agents? If so, no other respected sports league gives any notice to its athletes - why do you?


The FA's Premiership, along with almost every other top soccer league in Europe gives players significant advanced warning of tests. Rio Ferdinand famously claimed to have 'forgotten' about a test, and of course one can't forget that which you had no advance knowledge of.

Equally one could argue all Olympic athletes know that they will be tested if they win a medal, so you could contend they could simply take masking agents the morning of the compeition.

So uh, yeah, he's wrong in many ways on that point also, not least because masking agents can only do so much.



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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#567 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
My ex-girlfriend just forwarded me this link:

http://www.justiceforbenoit.com/

It's under construction, but so far, it's exactly what you'd think it would be.

You know, I loved the guy and I don't want to think that he did it either. But c'mon. It's one thing to hold out hope - however faint - that something will be revealed which will clear his name (mostly for the selfish reason that I would like to enjoy his wrestling matches). It's another thing to live in complete denial.

(edited by KJames199 on 12.7.07 0938)


JK
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#568 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    There are certainly valid questions buried amongst all the hyperbole and baiting, but most of what Keller puts forward are designed as sticky wicket questions. The BS about WWE "allowing" Benoit to do the diving headbutt, for example. WWE works one of the safest in-ring styles, if not THE safest in-ring style, in the world. Numerous moves are outlawed or placed under strict controls.

But isn't the diving header what led to Benoit needing neck fusion surgery? Don't you think someone would've stepped up upon his return and said, "Jeez Chris, maybe you shouldn't do that move anymore."?

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    The qestion about Benoit being tested in April, and how that allowed for him to take steroids in the two months since, is also asinine. Keller seems to be suggesting that the company should test on every single day, which is impractical and silly.

I think the problem is WWE trying to claim he was "clean" as far back as April, when "clean" doesn't equal "no steroids in his system" as far as WWE's test goes. Even so, WWE is trying to say roid rage was NOT a factor because he tested clean in April, well, that leaves two months he could've been doing them. I don't see Keller "suggesting" they should be testing every day.

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Refering to Benoit's time off last year as him reaching "breaking point" is incredibly irresponsible journalism. Every single news report last year on that subject stated that Benoit took some well-deserved time off nagging injuries and family time, and that he was also miffed that a match with Dean Malenko at One Night Stand had been kiboshed. Keller makes it sound like the guy was removed from the road due a breakdown.

I think the "breaking point" here more referred to him finally saying, "that's it, I need some time off, and I'm finally going to ask for it," not him going crazy. Time off is a big issue, that's what he's referring to. And the question clearly says he "asked" for time off, so I don't know why you think it sounds like they "removed" him from the road.

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Giving Kurt Angle's comments any kind of credence whatsoever is especially shoddy. Keller's on the inside as much as anyone else, and he's familiar with the ins and outs of Kurt's dealing with WWE. They fired him when he refused to go to rehab for Christ's sake. And he's spent the last eight months bullshitting about anything and everything. He regularly lied about his age earlier this year. Ditto on Piper.

If Piper were out of WWE talking on that HBO show, maybe I could say where you could say, "Oh, he's just jealous he's out of the biz now, he's bitter" or something, but the fact that he went out on a limb and said this stuff while he was still employed, IMO, should give it a little more credence.



    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    But this is the part that taes the cake:

    "
    * Over the past few weeks, we have heard wrestlers and wrestling experts talk about how Benoit was a fantastic person and one of the best, most respected, and most popular professional wrestlers on the planet. With that in mind, why was he not given the main event opportunities of lesser established and less respected wrestlers such as current headliners Bobby Lashey, John Cena, or Batista?

    * Is Bobby Lashley really getting a main event slot right now because he's a great wrestler or a great talker or a great all-around entertainer or super-popular with fans? Or is it because he has "the look" and you're just hoping everything else will fall into place? What kind of message does it send to everyone else on the roster - and teenagers who want to become pro wrestlers - when Lashley is promoted as a main eventer long before his popularity, in-ring skills, or mic skills justify that position?"

    So WWE were supposed to push Benoit and pay him a bundle because people thought he was a swell guy? It's not up to anyone to dictate who Vince McMahon pushes and why, and it's certainly not the role of a bullshit talkshow host like O'Reilly to quiz him on how "talented" Benoit was compared to guys like Cena and Batista. What's next? A televised intervention on behalf of Shelton Benjamin's career?

Agreed, and I think these were mostly questions made up by the readers. Their point, of course, at least in the second question, was that these guys who receive push after push despite having no discernable talent (Snitsky, par exemplar) appear to be roided up freaks, and what kind of message does that send others? Considering Benoit's situation, where most feel that HE felt he needed to bulk up to make for his lack of size, I think it's a question worth exploring. Everyone has known for YEARS that Vince favors the muscle-head looks, but is him doing that forcing wrestlers who might not otherwise, try steroids?


    Keller's trying to score points, plain and simple. The entire list reads like a plea for wrestlers to be absolved of all personal responsability in favour of blames the great McMahon-shaped Satan, and that's a gross oversimplification of the issue. If he shapes his argument to fit the hysteria of the mainstream press, he stands a chance of being picked up as "respected wrestling journalist Wade Keller, who just happens to agree with every Nancy Grace has to say! We must be right!".That seems to be what he's aiming for.



When you say he's trying to score points...with whom? Yes, "personal responsibility, blah, blah, blah," but the wrestling industry (to which McMahon has the most power in, which is why HE'S facing the most criticisim) and especially WWE's culture is what leads to these negative decisions to be made by wrestlers. If they had scheduled time off, no need to constantly rely on pain pills, etc. It would just make it easier for the talent to make a wise "personal responsibility" decision.

BTW: Wade noted that you don't see him on cable talk shows because he turns them all down (he doesn't want to take time out of his day to sit there for an hour and not get a word in edge-wise), so I don't think he cares how the media sees him. I don't mean to come off as someone who is defending everything Keller has to say, but for the most part, I agree with his points.

(edited by geemoney on 12.7.07 1654)

(edited by geemoney on 12.7.07 1656)

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Since: 2.1.02
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#569 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
Okay so Keller is turning down dozens of media interviews/$$$??, because he does not want to do them. Whatever!



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#570 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by geemoney
    But isn't the diving header what led to Benoit needing neck fusion surgery? Don't you think someone would've stepped up upon his return and said, "Jeez Chris, maybe you shouldn't do that move anymore."?


Benoit's neck fusion surgery was a cumulative thing, not just from the diving headbutt but from Benoit's overall high-impact style, IIRC. And even then, you're talking about the wrestler, not the company. Unless a doctor said to WWE "you should stop him doing this", this isn't their responsability. Rhino and Edge both needed that surgery since then. Ditto Helms. Which moves should be removed from their repertoire?

And the problem isn't necessarily in that suggestion, it's in the way the question is worded. Keller makes it sound like WWE intentionally put their employees in harm's way, which just isn't the case. They're the safest wrestling company in the world.

    Originally posted by geemoney
    I think the problem is WWE trying to claim he was "clean" as far back as April, when "clean" doesn't equal "no steroids in his system" as far as WWE's test goes. Even so, WWE is trying to say roid rage was NOT a factor because he tested clean in April, well, that leaves two months he could've been doing them. I don't see Keller "suggesting" they should be testing every day.


    Originally posted by WWE statement
    Toxicology tests have not even been completed, so there is no current evidence that Benoit even had steroids or any other substance in his body. In that regard, on the last test done on Benoit by WWE's independently administered drug testing program, done on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative.


No stating definitively that Benoit was clean, just stating what they knew. Namely, that he was tested negative by an independent advisor, and that until toxicology reports are returned such speculation is baseless.

    Originally posted by geemoney
    I think the "breaking point" here more referred to him finally saying, "that's it, I need some time off, and I'm finally going to ask for it," not him going crazy. Time off is a big issue, that's what he's referring to. And the question clearly says he "asked" for time off, so I don't know why you think it sounds like they "removed" him from the road.


It's provocative use of language that has no place in such a question. Why couldn't Keller have simply said "before Benoit asked for time off last year?". It's another sign of how Keller views this entire debate - Vince is a horrible human being, so let's find as much shit to sling at him as possible. And from all reports, time off has never, ever been something that Vince has quibbled about. Mick Foley has gone on record in both his books about Vince being perfectly cordial and generous when he requested time off, and that was when Foley was a midcarder. Keller seems to be takign issue with wrestlers having to ask for time off, which is really splitting hairs and once again suggests that wrestlers should be absolved of all responsability for their own actions. If these guys need time off, all they have to do is ask.

    Originally posted by geemoney
    If Piper were out of WWE talking on that HBO show, maybe I could say where you could say, "Oh, he's just jealous he's out of the biz now, he's bitter" or something, but the fact that he went out on a limb and said this stuff while he was still employed, IMO, should give it a little more credence.


Piper's comments were recorded before he returned to WWE. He's also since stated that HBO took parts of his interview out of context to make them appear more damning than they were. Keller knows these things, - or if he doesn't sure as Hell should.

    Originally posted by geemoney
    Agreed, and I think these were mostly questions made up by the readers. Their point, of course, at least in the second question, was that these guys who receive push after push despite having no discernable talent (Snitsky, par exemplar) appear to be roided up freaks, and what kind of message does that send others? Considering Benoit's situation, where most feel that HE felt he needed to bulk up to make for his lack of size, I think it's a question worth exploring. Everyone has known for YEARS that Vince favors the muscle-head looks, but is him doing that forcing wrestlers who might not otherwise, try steroids?


It's an irrelevent question. Vince favouring big roided-up guys doesn't make him responsible for other people using steroids in order to try and curry his favour. If your boss started promoting heroin addicts, would you turn into a junkie or find another line of employment?

    Originally posted by geemoney
    When you say he's trying to score points...with whom?


The mainstream press, which probably makes him feel a wee bit more legitimate. The fans who loathe Vince, that's another group of people who he seems to enjoy pandering to. If Keller was so concerned about the wrestlers' welfare, I'd have to think he would've avoided the sensationalist baiting of the racial and sexual questions. Instead, the entire list is loaded with irrelevent nonsense designed to embarrass Vince et al. If Wade wants changes in the industry, is going out of his way piss off the guy who could implement them the smartest strategy to take? Or maybe that's what Keller's REALLY trying to achieve - a palpable victory for smark fans everywhere by watching Vince squirm on national TV.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#571 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Vince favouring big roided-up guys doesn't make him responsible for other people using steroids in order to try and curry his favour. If your boss started promoting heroin addicts, would you turn into a junkie or find another line of employment?



Heroin ? Definitely no.

But if he was promoting steroid users who had a chance to make $100,000 to possibly a million bucks a year ?

Yeah, probably.

You would be amazed at the amount of people that would jump at that offer in a second......and there would probably be a good amount of people who would take that heroin addict offer also for the chance to make that amount of money a year.




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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#572 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    They're the safest wrestling company in the world.
Is this true? There's a guy on 411 who does a weekly round-up of the injured list for WWE and TNA, and there are always way more WWE guys on the injured list than TNA guys -- right now that includes HHH, Michaels, Taker, Holly, and Helms, with people like Mysterio and Kennedy and Phoenix just now making their way back. TNA just has Steiner on the injured list.

Same with Ring of Honor. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that's out injured right now, since Mark Briscoe came back from his injury (which was, of course, a great argument for banning the SSP -- at least onto the floor!).

I know that TNA and ROH have smaller rosters, but even proportionally, WWE seems to have more injuries. And it confuses me, because it seems like WWE does have a safer style. So what accounts for the disparity? I don't have long-term numbers, but it feels like it's been that way for a while -- is WWE just having a particularly rough patch right now, or are ROH and TNA just lucking out? Is it just confirmation bias on my part?

Does anyone keep track of lucha or puro or US independents who could shed a little light on their numbers? I'm honestly curious what proportion of the active roster can be injured and still be considered a normal proportion.

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Rhino and Edge both needed that surgery since then. Ditto Helms. Which moves should be removed from their repertoire?
The Spear and the Gore, I guess, although I don't really know how much those moves actually impact the neck. Helms, I dunno.

--K

(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 13.7.07 0155)


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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#573 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Rhyno's problem was pretty definitively identified as the Gore when he went down with the injury.

WWE's higher injury rate probably has something to do with a)the bigger rosters, and b)the larger amount of house shows and TV that they do.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#574 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.54
Don't forget about the relative ages of the rosters. On the WWE's injured list, only Helms is a relatively younger guy, while HHH, Michaels, Taker, Rey, and Holly have all been in the business for over 10 years. Young guys not only are in generally better shape, so they don't get hurt as much, but they also are usually more willing to gut through less severe injuries and keep working.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#575 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Again, most of those questions were NOT written by Keller, but rather, by the members of the PWTorch forum.

EDIT: Might as well wrap things up from my end in this post too. I'll say it again, yes, I think these wrestlers are personally responsible for what they do. But, I don't think WWE is helping them make the decisions on what to do easier. If they gave guys extended time off once or twice a year and allowed some nagging injuries to heal, there would be no need to get addicted to pain pills/any other kind of medication to take the pain away.

If WWE banned steroids instead of allowing a certain amount in your system that would still constitute passing a test, that would get guys off of steroids. People say, "well, no one is forcing wrestlers to take steroids." True, but what are these wrestlers supposed to think when Triple H makes fun of Chris Masters when he's lost muscle mass after the wellness policy is introduced, on national TV? Or when Orton comes back from injury and Vince HIMSELF gets in the ring and makes fun of his body size? What kind of message does that send?

There is so much they could be doing to help these guys rather than sitting back and yelling "personal responsibility." I'm not playing the blame game and equating Vince with the devil or anything, it's just that there is SO MUCH WWE could be doing to help out and they're not.

OSH, I guess we're both reading what we want to read in the questions listed on the Torch website (since we can't even agree on how the question is asked:)). The main crux of my argument is not in blaming Vince, but instead, identifying steps WWE could take to ensure the safety and long-term health of its athletes.

(edited by geemoney on 13.7.07 1402)

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oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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Last activity: 1900 days
#576 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
My issue most definitely is not with you. I absolutely agree that WWE can and should take stronger action when it comes to regulating drug use. My problem is with Keller and the PWTorch readers using this situation to take petty, vindictive potshots at a time when pro-wrestling discussion needs to be at its more serious. Keller's laundry list of inanities does not set a good example for the mainstream media to follow - right now, people like and Meltzer and even Scherer need to be at their most studious and journalistic in order to counter the self-righteous frenzy that's developed amongst the Nancy Graces and Geraldo Riveras of this world. Also....

    Originally posted by geemoney
    True, but what are these wrestlers supposed to think when Triple H makes fun of Chris Masters when he's lost muscle mass after the wellness policy is introduced, on national TV? Or when Orton comes back from injury and Vince HIMSELF gets in the ring and makes fun of his body size? What kind of message does that send?


I would probably think something like "Fuck this, I can ride my WWE name and make money on the indies or in TNA, and I can do it without having to fill my body with poisonous crap. Seeya!" The WWE isn't the only game in town. When someone like Raven can apparently make more money and have more control over his life by working indies as opposed to wrestlnig for the 'E, the issue of personal responsibility again comes to the forefront. People have GOT to stop acting like their is no choice involved here. You could choose to work indies, you could try and make a connection with TNA or RoH, you give Japan or Europe a call, or - gasp! - you could even look into an alternative career. Is WWE the biggest shot of wrestling success? Sure, but not the only one. And that makes this whole thing far more complex than most people are willing to admit.

I think you oversimplify the situation somewhat, though. Two months off a year is a dandy idea and one I'd wholy support, but it's not going to eliminate pain problems and medication abuse. There is no magic wand here.

I'd also like to apologise to CRZ for posting a whole lot on this over the past coupla days, as I know it pisses him off sometimes. I guess I feel that debate such as this is important. This'll be my last post on the subject for a while, I promise.



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CTX
Italian








Since: 11.5.02

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#577 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
There's no way they could outright ban steroids without drastically cutting the schedules, which I can't see happening in the current climate. Steroids help with joint pain and general wear and tear so banning them would just make the users move onto something else to ease the pain. Banning steroids just to end up with a roster full of pillheads isn't solving anything.

I would say the number of people who could work the full time WWE schedule without any kind of drug use/abuse would be very low, especially those international tours where they're working something like 10 shows in 7 days over 3 or 4 different countries.



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JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 56 min.
#578 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
    Originally posted by OSH
    And from all reports, time off has never, ever been something that Vince has quibbled about.


I'm sure that if someone asked outright, Vince would definitely acquiesce, but there's certainly an ingrained mentality, which I figure is perpetuated subtly and not so subtly by management and talent both, that true pros don't take time off and you keep going as long as the company needs you. Like Michaels and Mysterio perpetually putting off their knee surgeries, Michaels for over an entire year until he eventually had no choice.


    WWE's higher injury rate probably has something to do with a)the bigger rosters, and b)the larger amount of house shows and TV that they do.


b) might not necessarily fall under "wrestler safety," but I would say it definitely plays a large part in overall healthiness of the life of the WWE performer. There's a c) too, though, and that's WWE's wrestlers' steroid use, which increases the likelihood of muscle tears. Quadriceps and biceps, for three famous examples, multiple times each, but that increased injury risk applies across the board.
flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 2494 days
Last activity: 2481 days
AIM:  
#579 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
"I'm sure that if someone asked outright, Vince would definitely acquiesce, but there's certainly an ingrained mentality, which I figure is perpetuated subtly and not so subtly by management and talent both, that true pros don't take time off and you keep going as long as the company needs you. Like Michaels and Mysterio perpetually putting off their knee surgeries, Michaels for over an entire year until he eventually had no choice."

True, and that's a point not exclusive to wrestling at all. It's the same vibe in any sport. Guys work through injuries and if you need to take something to gut it out, you do it. The only difference is that in the NFL it might be to get through the playoffs. In wrestling, you work through it until you can't.

About the injuries of the E roster as compared to TNA or the indies, as said the schedule and steroid use tends to play a big part, but I think a lot of it is that guys in TNA and the indies can't really afford to take time off to heal, so you don't hear stuff publicized. Joe has been working hurt forever. Dragon worked forever on a bum shoulder and it's pretty scary to think what he had to take to get through those matches.

probleus
Longanisa








Since: 5.1.02
From: London, Ontario

Since last post: 2268 days
Last activity: 12 days
#580 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    I'm sure that if someone asked outright, Vince would definitely acquiesce, but there's certainly an ingrained mentality, which I figure is perpetuated subtly and not so subtly by management and talent both, that true pros don't take time off and you keep going as long as the company needs you.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the reasons that RVD chose not to resign because they wouldn't grant him an extended vacation?
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Shoemaker built his rep up from his Dead Wrestler of the Week column on Deadspin: http://deadspin.com/tag/dead-wrestler-of-the-week I'm not sure what he was doing before that but those articles were what led him to the Grantland gig.
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