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The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Benoit passes away (Page 28)
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Jackson
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#541 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.85
(deleted by Jackson on 7.7.07 1530)
CRZ
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#542 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Nothing new in the Larry King show from last night - guests were John Cena, Bret Hart (from Calgary), Chris Jericho, Ted DiBiase, Steve Blackman and Jerry McDevitt.

Rush transcript is up: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/09/lkl.01.html

I think everybody's points have been made and are well known to everyone paying attention. I don't know that there's anything more to get by further dwelling on the story, pending something really unexpected surfacing (whether it be from the tox report or something else entirely). This won't be the thing that gets a union. I wouldn't be surprised if Jericho is back before WrestleMania 24 (if not a LOT sooner).

Actually, you could say the same thing about this thread - everybody's points have been made and are well known to everyone paying attention. (And me bumping the thread is probably a Very Bad Idea.) Since I'm still up past 3am and posting here, I might as well throw out there that in the end, it only took about 72 hours for this thread to pass the Eddie thread in views, and that includes all those months the Eddie thread was around vs. three days for this one. This is also now, unfortunately, the #2 thread in views on this board - #1 is "Torrie wilson playboy pics..." and we all have the search engines to thank for that. Just like in real life, tragedies and funerals bring all sorts of people out of the woodwork and our "active" number shot back up another 20% (and is sure to fall back down in just about a month) - but at least this time we were (mostly) all civil and let each other talk. Well...at least until I started telling people to shut up.



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#543 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


    Originally posted by CRZ
    Steve Blackman


This got my attention. I haven't seen Blackman in a very long time and as my wife knows, he's my favorite ex-wrestler!




CRZ had to edit my profile and close my table for me. I am a bad man.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
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#544 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.14

It almost looked like a confrontation was about to build when the subject of a union was mentioned. It seemed as though Bret, who was pro-union, got cut-off really quick.

KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
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#545 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.39
A few tidbits from Sunday's Figure Four Daily with Dave Meltzer:

- Before the Raw tribute show went on the air, Meltzer was told by a source in WWE that Benoit had killed his wife and son and himself. "His" meaning Benoit's wife and son, not the source's wife and son. Unless the source was Benoit. CREEPY. Anyway. Meltzer is convinced that Vince would have known before the show went on the air, though he suspects that none of the wrestlers or announcers would have known at that time. The next day when they started getting heat for airing a tribute to a wife beating child murderer, WWE claimed that they didn't know until after the show had aired. Meltzer can accept that Vince was told but did not believe it, as neither Meltzer nor his source believed the report at first. But if that's the case, then they should have said "we were told, but didn't believe it" because "we had no idea" is a huge credibility killer.

- In the hilarious saga of Vince McMahon's exploding limo, it was going to eventually be revealed that Vince faked his own death and framed Linda for it. No idea why. Alvarez and Meltzer joke that this was based on something in real life, like how Santino getting squashed was in response to Italy dropping Smackdown.



JK
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#546 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.32
It makes me wonder how Mr McMahon is going to make a return now.

I also wonder what Bret Hart, Steve Blackman and others are going to do with themselves now that they've just about completed the circuit and they've all beat their point into the ground. Wait for a colorful toxicology report I suppose.

I'm really starting to think that this thing might blow over a lot easier for the WWE because it was such a freak thing.





Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

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#547 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
Bret Hart's line about the janitors that work in the offices having more benefits then the actual wrestlers made me laugh.

I can see why Vince wanted his 'Poster Boy' John Cena there on the show. He represented himself and the company better then the WWE's lawyer did and I almost forgot that I didn't really like him all that much.

It is kinda sad that they wanted to get off the subject of a union so quickly because it could easily be the best idea going for any of them. Seeing as they are basically 'actors', they could conceivable join the Screen Actors Guild.
ekedolphin
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#548 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
I was a little bit irritated how the last question-- about how the wrestlers feel about WWE taking steps to seemingly erase Benoit's existence-- got cut off at the end. Um, Larry, if you don't have time to have the question asked and answered, don't go on the air with the goddamn question! Especially because I was very interested to see how they'd reply to it.



"Finally, finally, my God finally, Chris Benoit is the Heavyweight Champion of this World!"
--Jim Ross, WrestleMania XX

Remembering Chris Benoit (1967-2007) and Eddie Guerrero (1967-2005)

Fan of the Indianapolis Colts-- Super Bowl XLI Champions

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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#549 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62

    I wouldn't be surprised if Jericho is back before WrestleMania 24 (if not a LOT sooner).


Yup. That was probably the one thing that was not annoying about Larry King (yesterday's Nancy Grace was actually a lot better, for all kinds of reasons ["NO DEAL FOR THIS DRUG DEALING DOC"]) -- at least Jericho is almost certainly coming back. I'm guessing in the fall in conjunction with the book.
kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
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#550 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

      I wouldn't be surprised if Jericho is back before WrestleMania 24 (if not a LOT sooner).


    Yup. That was probably the one thing that was not annoying about Larry King (yesterday's Nancy Grace was actually a lot better, for all kinds of reasons ["NO DEAL FOR THIS DRUG DEALING DOC"]) -- at least Jericho is almost certainly coming back. I'm guessing in the fall in conjunction with the book.


Jericho is looking a LOT smaller these days, so maybe it would be a good time to bring in a scrawny guy. I think he may have missed his window of opportunity while HHH was out with his injury, though.
Also, with his new haircut, he looks like he is about 14 years old.




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#551 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.23

I've been wondering something for the past little while with regards to the revelation that Astin was prescribing a "10-month supply of steroids every 3-4 weeks" to Benoit.

I don't know from steroids, so this may be a dumb question, but by "10-month supply" does that mean the supply that would be given to an average person who was using steroids as a hormone replacement therapy rather than for bodybuilding purposes? I'm guessing in that case, the dosage would be way, way lower and someone using the same amount for body building would go through them much quicker (i.e. in 3-4 weeks).

I'm just trying to suss out whether there was any chance that Benoit may have been "sharing" his supply with others. I'm guessing not, or someone else would probably have picked up on it before me, but I am curious about it.
CajunMan
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#552 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
This was on O'Reilly's fox website.

Wednesday, July 11:
Chris Benoit's death exposed the dark side of wrestling. Now 'The Factor' takes the sport to the mat! Don't miss Bill's hard-hitting interview with Linda McMahon


Holy Cow! Set yout tape machines for this one!

FoxNews 7 cent/8 east.



I'm CajunMan and I approve this message.
RYDER FAKIN
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Since: 21.2.02
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#553 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.97
Keller hasn't missed his chance to shine - here's a couple posts from the Torch website that wants ISSUES ADDRESSED in the no spin zone

* * * * *

OPEN LETTER TO FOX NEWS:

I asked the readers of my website (http://www.pwtorch.com) to submit suggestions for questions and topics for Mr. O'Reilly to ask Linda McMahon tonight. WWE's top personnel have a history of avoiding difficult questions or spinning their way out of tough subjects, but the No Spin Zone should be just that with Linda. Here are a few questions written by me and the readers of my website.

* How much notice do WWE wrestlers have before they are drug tested? If it's even five minutes, isn't that enough time to consume masking agents? If so, no other respected sports league gives any notice to its athletes - why do you?

* What is the full procedure followed when a wrestler fails a steroid test?

* When you use the term "passed our test" or "tested clean," does that specifically and always mean there were no drugs in their system, or just a level that your testing allows for?

* When you say someone "passed our test" or "tested clean," does that mean in some cases they tested positive for a drug, but then produced a prescription from a doctor - at which point your policy then allowed for those drugs in his system? If so, would you reconsider that policy in light of what you've learned about how Dr. Astin was prescribing excessive and dangerous numbers of pills to his wrestler patients?

* When you say Chris Benoit "passed your drug test" or "tested clean," what was the T/E ratio of his test? Was it 1:1, or was it 3:1 (below the 4:1 limit that requied a retest)? Or was it between 4:1 and 9:1, which in WWE is considered a "pass" as long as they pass a retest, which they know ahead of time is coming?

* If Chris Benoit did pass your steroid test in April, isn't it possible he took steroids for the two months that followed before he killed his wife and son? How does passing a test in April qualify as proof that he was clean eight weeks later? If it doesn't - and it doesn't - why did you present that as some sort of proof he was clean when you knew that the district attorney found tons of steroids in his house when they discovered his and his family's bodies?

* Please explain the specific key differences between the WWE drug testing policy and those of the Olympics, Major League Baseball, the NFL, and the NBA? Does it seem to you that those differences coincide directly with loopholes that would allow wrestlers to get bigger or remain active while hurt by popping pain pills?

* What steps are taken as part of your wellness policy to screen for growth hormone, insuline, and low testosterone levels which in combination are known to produce massive muscle gain and fat loss, while not being detectable in standard urine-based drug testing? Since that concoction is expensive (six figures a year), if a massively muscular main eventer passes your tests, but you know he could afford expensive alternatives, are you taking steps to protect his health and create an even playing field by conducting a blood test to detect such supplements?

* When Vince McMahon was wrestling various matches recently (including a stretch of time where he had crowned himself the ECW Heavyweight Champion), did he submit as a performer to the same drug tests as the other athletes/performers on your roster?* When you went on Good Morning America and said Chris's son Daniel had Fragile X syndrome, what evidence did you have besides a woman in Canada saying so? What evidence did you have that backed up your assertion that Chris killed his wife because of a dispute over care of their supposedly special-needs child? Or did you use that unconfirmed info to try to distract the issue from all of the steroids found in Chris's house?

* Before Benoit reached a breaking point and asked for four months off last year, when was the last time before that he had planned time off exceeding two weeks that didn't consist of him recovering from an injury? When was the last time any wrestler got to plan a substantial vacation of more than week with his family, not counting the most tenured of the top stars who are into their 40s and basically semi-retired?

* How much vacation time do vice presidents in your company receive? How about any office worker with tenure of five years?

* How many hours a week on average are your contracted performers away from home throughout the year counting the second they leave for the airport to the moment they step back in their house after a road trip?

* In the last five years, what percentage of wrestlers on your full time roster were given time off the road more than once during the year that amounted to more than ten days? How about seven days? Does a period of three or four days off on average, including travel days, really constitute a proper amount of time to recover physically and mentally from the grind of their jobs?

* If a wrestler has to ask for time off, isn't that too late? And can you possibly deny that the culture of WWE among wrestlers makes it shameful to ask for the time off because you're "showing weakness" or "letting your co-workers down"?

* Why was Roddy Piper fired by WWE in 2003 the day after he spoke out about deaths in pro wrestling, drug use, and the psychological impact of life on the road on HBO's Real Sports? What kind of message does this send?

* WWE allowed Kurt Angle to wrestle in the main event of Wrestlemania XIX knowing that he risked paralysis or permanent bodily damage. On the same show you allowed Steve Austin to compete despite spending the previous night in the hospital with cardiovascular issues so severe he thought he was going to die. Wrestlers regularly "gut" through injuries that would sideline an athlete immediately in any other sport. At what point does WWE feel it is their responsibility to say 'No' to wrestlers who are willing to risk permanent disability?

* Why did WWE allow Chris Benoit, after having major neck fusion sugery, to continue to jump off the top rope with a diving headbutt as one of his signature moves? Shouldn't you have stepped in and insisted he stop doing that because it could have led to more neck problems, more pain, and contributed to a reliance on pain pills as he reached age 40? Didn't legendary wrestler Harley Race, who used the same move, publicly advise Benoit to stop doing that move years ago because the cumulative effects were so damaging?

* How often do wrestlers get diagnosed with concussions? When was the last time a wrestler missed a scheduled big match because of a concussion diagnosis?

* Mixed Martial Arts and other athletics in many instances require regular EKG's to detect any looming cardiovascular issues, including enlarged or irregular heart condition. With so many wrestling deaths (most recently Eddie Guerrero) being cardiovascular in nature, what specifically is done in WWE as part of its wellness policy?

* Over the past few weeks, we have heard wrestlers and wrestling experts talk about how Benoit was a fantastic person and one of the best, most respected, and most popular professional wrestlers on the planet. With that in mind, why was he not given the main event opportunities of lesser established and less respected wrestlers such as current headliners Bobby Lashey, John Cena, or Batista?

* Is Bobby Lashley really getting a main event slot right now because he's a great wrestler or a great talker or a great all-around entertainer or super-popular with fans? Or is it because he has "the look" and you're just hoping everything else will fall into place? What kind of message does it send to everyone else on the roster - and teenagers who want to become pro wrestlers - when Lashley is promoted as a main eventer long before his popularity, in-ring skills, or mic skills justify that position?

* Will you continue to have psychiatrists and counselors for wrestlers to talk to on the road even after everyone is done grieving and dealing with the Benoit tragedy?

* Have you ever portrayed a gay wrestling character without negative stereotypes attached? How about Middle Eastern? Or Asian?

* Other than Bobby Lashley currently, of the dozens of black athletes you've employed over the years, name one who wasn't portrayed in a racially stereotypical way?

* Do you really refer to one of your main black wrestling characters as a Silverback Gorilla? Wasn't calling someone black "a gorilla" historically considered a rationalization for dehumanizing them and justification for enslavement or unequal rights? Isn't 25 percent of your viewership kids?

* The IRS tends to classify someone as an employee and not an independent contractor if (1) The employer provides new employee training, (2) The employer provides a strict work schedule, (3) The employer demands exclusivity. WWE applies all three to their wrestlers. WWE wrestlers experience the worst of being an employee (they are accountable to WWE on a micro level and they can't work for any other wrestling company) and the worst of being an independent contractor (no benefits provided, no expenses paid). What is the company's response to playing both sides of the fence seemingly to benefit themselves and deny the wrestlers?

* Vince McMahon personally declared 12 million dollars in dividends for the first quarter of 2007 and the company is sitting on close to $300 million dollars in cash reserves. The percentage of gross revenue that goes to the athletes in wrestling is significantly lower than other major sports. Why are wrestlers not better taken care of in terms of salary, paid accomodations, on the road and health benefits when WWE can afford to do so?

* Have you ever witnessed what you'd consider a temperamental outburst or extreme moodiness related to steroids, or perhaps an all-out episode that might qualify as "roid rage"?

Best regards,

Wade Keller, editor
And Our Readers
Pro Wrestling Torch

* * * * *

and the follow-up


Keller's Take
KELLER: Second batch of suggested questions for Bill O'Reilly to ask Linda McMahon tonight

Earlier, we posted a collection of questions suggested by PWTorch VIP members in our VIP Forum with some additions by me. We now include a second batch of questions suggested by readers. In the interest of WWE having a chance to answer their critics, because as John Cena said - the media is just soooo resistant to giving them a platform to give their side on these controversial issues - we have emailed the questions to Fox News so Linda can walk away from the interview feeling all lingering controversial subjects, to which she has perfectly reasonable answers, have been addressed once and for all...

* Why was a wrestler (Joey Mercury) allowed to wrestle with a facemask just a couple of weeks after having reconstructive surgery for a serious injury in the ring and knowing that this wrestler just recently returned to the WWE roster after a stint in rehab for an addiction to pain medication? Don't you think it would have been better to give him time off to heal from a face and head injury that he received in the wrestling ring instead of putting him back in the ring so soon after surgery? Don't you think that it is in the best interest of the wrestler to sit at home to recover and minimize the pain no matter how "gung-ho" the wrestler is about getting in the ring and "gutting it out?" Do you believe that situations like this where wrestlers wrestle injured can lead to increase pain medication use and is a big factor? (Note to Mr. O'Reilly: that wrestler was fired because his drug problems came up again.)

* WWE claims that only five wrestlers died on their watch? While that may be true...isn't 5 wrestlers alone too much and isn't it also true that many of the wrestlers on the "wrestler dead list" are former WWE wrestlers that died from pain pill abuse? Do you think it is WWE's duty to take action now to prevent some of their current stars from dropping dead in 10-15 years when they are retired and out of the spotlight?

* Isn't claiming only five wrestlers died on our watch sort of like coal mine bosses saying very few employees did in the caves, and some died years later? If there's a common thread among ex-contracted performers, wouldn't you want to do something to change the system - not because you have to, but because it's the right thing to do?

* Did you really run an angle where a heel wrestler generated boos by telling one of the friends of the recently deceased Eddie Guerrero that Eddie was going to "burn in hell"?

* Kurt Angle has said in many media outlets that he requested time off for the specific purpose of checking into rehab and weaning himself off a pain-pill addiction, but Vince McMahon himself turned his request down, ordering him to "rehab on the road." Is this true, and if so, how do you reconcile that?

* Former script writer Vince Russo said he wanted more time to spend with his young children because he was on the road so much. Did his boss and your husband really tell him coldly to just "hire a nanny."

* When was WWE first aware that Chris Benoit was suspected of murdering his wife Nancy and son Daniel? Why did WWE decide to do a tribute show for Chris Benoit before they knew how he and his family died?

* Is it true that there is a culture of secrecy in the wrestling industry and that many wrestlers are afraid to speak out publicly about the drug problems afflicting the industry for fear of being blacklisted by WWE - thus eliminating their chance at full time work ever at their chosen occupation by 90-95 percent?

* Why did WWE fail to drug test their wrestlers between 1996 to 2005 after they had instituted a drug testing policy in 1992?

* What kind of message does it send to the talent when the guys who make the most money look more like cartoon characters than humans?

* Is it true that when wrestlers do fail a drug test and are suspended, they are asked to continue to work without pay? Does any other workplace that suspends people, make them work without pay?

* What kind of message does it send to the talent when the guys who make the most money look more like cartoon characters than humans?

* What did you think of your husband wanting to be the storyline father of your daughter's baby?

* * * * *

I think all of these are easily answered - but should have been spellchecked, maybe.

Of course, if ANY of these questions are asked, we'll never hear the end of it. And of course, if the answer makes sense, O'Reilly will no spin it away with an "oh come on, Geraldo said...". At least Vince was smart enough not to go himself, or send McDevitt. Or Stephanie, for that matter

Here's my question - is Keller (and everyone else for that matter), in using Benoit's death to get himself, his newsletter and his website over with his harebrained "fixes", conspiracy theories, and general disdain of wrestling "as it is" donating this windfall of profits to help the people in need? Or in memory of Nancy and Daniel? Should he? What is the definition of Blood Money? Profiteering from death? Why is it only a one way street?

FLEA








Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high

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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#554 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92

I've never read Keller or the PWTorch, but most of those questions dont have anything at all to do with Benoit (Vince/Steph incest angle? Eddie angle? "Why is Lashley being pushed"??). I call bullshit. This list of questions makes Keller no better than Nancy Grace in my eyes.



CLICK OR DIE
oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#555 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Nice to see Keller being so voraciously and innaccurately aggressive towards an industry which, for all intents and purposes, gifts him his living.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#556 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Nice to see Keller being so voraciously and innaccurately aggressive towards an industry which, for all intents and purposes, gifts him his living.


I was wondering the same thing. Does he WANT the business to go under? What would he do then?




Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#557 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92

    Originally posted by kentish
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Nice to see Keller being so voraciously and innaccurately aggressive towards an industry which, for all intents and purposes, gifts him his living.


    I was wondering the same thing. Does he WANT the business to go under? What would he do then?
Maybe he wants to get on the "Cable news shows covering the Benoit story talking head circuit" and he thinks this is his big chance?

HOPEFULLY if O'Reilly (who I've never watched, either) decides to hit Linda with a bunch of dumbass non-Benoit questions, she'll able to handle herself.



CLICK OR DIE
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#558 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
I don't get it. Most of those questions, while not Benoit-specific, should be addressed by WWE, and some of them (time on the road, drug testing) may have directly had to do with Benoit. It doesn't seem like Keller is "out to get" the industry, just that there is recognition that things could be done better and that change is needed. If anyone has heard/seen Marc Mero on the news programs lately, he's got a good grasp on (what I think) the real issues are here.

This goes a lot deeper into the wrestling industry than Benoit.





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TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 63 days
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#559 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.74
    Originally posted by kentish
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Nice to see Keller being so voraciously and innaccurately aggressive towards an industry which, for all intents and purposes, gifts him his living.


    I was wondering the same thing. Does he WANT the business to go under? What would he do then?


Granted, I could just be a dumb mark here - but maybe it's somewhat unselfish of Keller to potentially damage his livelihood to try and make things better for the beasts of burden that fuel his work and those quarterly dividends for WWE, Inc. shareholders (mostly going to the bank accounts of the McMahon family)?

Seems to be more than Vince (and of course he *is the sole rulemaker when it comes to American wrestling), Linda, Jerry McDevitt, John Cena, or even Chris Jericho appear to be willing to talk about, yes? When you go to Larry King Live to plead your case, there's not a cushier national forum to get your preferred talking points across. I don't watch O'Reilly, so I have no idea if he has the capacity to get beyond demonizing steroids, but hopefully so.

Keller certainly could have edited that list down, but the apparent holes in WWE drug testing, this illogical independent contractor status of the performers, the anecdotal stories of maintaining that unnatural "look", and being pressured to keep going week after week - I think these are legitimate issues WWE should have to explain, if not answer for. Steroids are a piece of the puzzle, but imo not the biggest part. Unfortunately that doesn't fit the national agenda, and so Vince may be able to stall long enough for a new big story to grab the spotlight.

Melodramatic? Maybe. Or possibly I'm mistaken, and we 'smarter' fans are okay with people periodically dropping dead in the name of our entertainment? Personally, I don't like it in wrestling, I don't like it in the NFL. (And I don't like the suspicious records being set in MLB either) I've been a fan of all of these too long to give them up, but that doesn't mean I can't advocate change.






It's the Big "W", I tell ya! The Big "W"!
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

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#560 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.32

    * Why was a wrestler (Joey Mercury) allowed to wrestle with a facemask just a couple of weeks after having reconstructive surgery for a serious injury in the ring and knowing that this wrestler just recently returned to the WWE roster after a stint in rehab for an addiction to pain medication? Don't you think it would have been better to give him time off to heal from a face and head injury that he received in the wrestling ring instead of putting him back in the ring so soon after surgery? Don't you think that it is in the best interest of the wrestler to sit at home to recover and minimize the pain no matter how "gung-ho" the wrestler is about getting in the ring and "gutting it out?" Do you believe that situations like this where wrestlers wrestle injured can lead to increase pain medication use and is a big factor? (Note to Mr. O'Reilly: that wrestler was fired because his drug problems came up again.)



This is actually a fairly good point. I'd never thought about the Mercury situation like that before.





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