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The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Benoit passes away (Page 21)
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DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 5 days
#401 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.22
This is from Meltzer:

Monday's issue is done. It will be about the Benoit case. There will be a tremendous amount in there that I don't believe has been reported anywhere else. I believe that while in the end, there is no way to not be outraged at the situation, nor any valid excuse whatsoever, you will see what is a very complex, sad and horrifying story. I don't believe it's a roid rage story. I don't rule out steroids being one of numerous aspects that could have played a part in the story. There were numerous stresses, personal, professional, and Chris had a dark side.


He seem to know Benoit pretty well, so I'm going to take him at his word and say this wasn't 'roid rage'. I agree with what a lot of columnists have out there about the WWE needing to change their culture (Keller did an excellent article about the 5 points they need to change), but I'll still always believe that Chris Benoit had this inside of him and was evil to the core. If he wasn't a wrestler, this would have probably come out in some way shape or form. Some dude here recently killed his gf and her mother, then killed himself and as far as I know, he never wrestled, used steroids nor was hit in the back with a chair.

One thing I will say is it's really weird how people are saying that the stress of having a mentally challenged child could have contributed to this. Chris made a half million dollars a year from wrestling. Couldn't they have hired good healthcare and workers to help take care of Daniel to relieve the stress? I'm pretty sure they weren't the only family that were famous that had the husband go away for long stretches that had a child that was sick or challenged (Derek Fisher and Boomer Esiason come quickly to mind).



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
tlmkr38
Bauerwurst








Since: 15.12.03
From: West Tennessee

Since last post: 2531 days
Last activity: 2426 days
#402 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.77
I'm reading and seeing on tv about the steroids. realistically here, the way the news is talking whoever takes steroids is automatically going to have rage and mental problems. If this is so truelike they are pushing it how come every performer in wrestling or even the baseball bassketball,football,etc. hasn't gone off the deep end and done something like this?

Jeez I mean how much of the stuff was he taking? If the physique is any indication of how much someone is taking Chris Masters should have already blown his top. I use him as am example as there are many more who have used them too.

My point is I just watched something on Fox that was pretty much blaming WWE for making him take Steroids which in turn makes then responsible for the deaths. Wrong! Chris Benoit is responsible. He was 40 yrs old and knew what effects they have on a person. He chose to take them, I doubt anyone held him down and forced him to take them.

Some will say well if hte didn't he wouldn't have a job. That's BS.True he might not have worked for WWE but I am sure he wouldn't have been unemployed. If the steroids had any influence on this it was Chris's responsiblility and I think the news needs to remember that.

No I don't think that these guys should be taking them but I guess that they feel they have to to keep the level of entertainment where it is. Of course I am an old wrestling fan and like to watch good mat wrestling instead of the showboating. Watched the Benoit/Malenko match they showed Monday night, now that is wrestling!

Anyway, I have vented, just getting tired of the news blaming everyone involved except the person who commited the murders.



Whatever
Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2239 days
Last activity: 1670 days
#403 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
    Originally posted by tlmkr38
    I'm reading and seeing on tv about the steroids. realistically here, the way the news is talking whoever takes steroids is automatically going to have rage and mental problems. If this is so truelike they are pushing it how come every performer in wrestling or even the baseball bassketball,football,etc. hasn't gone off the deep end and done something like this?


I think the media's problem with this angle is that they're fascinated by the idea that there's proof positive that an active athlete in the prime of his career was in possession of steroids. For them, this is like getting a peek into Barry Bonds's medicine cabinet, or at least as close to it as they can hope to come.

That's weird to those of us who follow wrestling because we simply take it on faith that virtually every pro wrestler uses steroids, and we'll accept circumstantial evidence like back acne, premature hair loss, and frequent muscle tears. From our perspective it's obvious that steroids alone can't explain all of Benoit's behavior because if that were so, with so many data points in the field of wrestling we'd be seeing far more tragedies of this nature. (For all I know it was the steroids; I'm just saying that this is why I think a lot of wrestling fans find that hard to accept.)

But I'd dare say most of the people covering this story don't often pay any attention to wrestlers--it's entirely possible that people like Anderson Cooper or Meredith Viera have never seen Scott Steiner in their lives, let alone noticed the changes in his body since the early '90s. So as far as they know, as far as they can confirm, and as far as they can report, Chris Benoit was the most roided-up roider in the history of wrestling. (And if you were to respond to that with "Geez, have you seen Chris Masters?" they would most likely say "Who's Chris Masters?") To them Benoit is now uniquely associated with owning steroids, and since he's also uniquely associated with being a wrestler who killed his family they can't help but assume there's a connection.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 2 days
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#404 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.54
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    One thing I will say is it's really weird how people are saying that the stress of having a mentally challenged child could have contributed to this. Chris made a half million dollars a year from wrestling. Couldn't they have hired good healthcare and workers to help take care of Daniel to relieve the stress? I'm pretty sure they weren't the only family that were famous that had the husband go away for long stretches that had a child that was sick or challenged (Derek Fisher and Boomer Esiason come quickly to mind).


Well, it's because the child was mentally, behaviorally, and developmentally challenged instead of simply physically challenged that this would create tremendous stress. It's not just a matter of taking care of the child and seeing to it that his needs are met. This is a child that, depending on how severe his condition was, might not ever be able to tell his father he loved him, or even understand the concept of love. This is a child that might never have a functional behavioral schema. It's the emotional and psychological stress that we're talking about here, not necessarily stress related to caregiving.
CxMorgado
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 243 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#405 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I haven't posted here in I don't know how long, and I hate that this is what brought me back, but I really haven't been able to get any sort of catharthis or dialogue about this tragedy anywhere else (just lots of tasteless photoshops).

Benoit was a personal hero of mine, as a teenager watching him is part of what got me into the gym, and his story was inspirational to me. Like everyone else, when I found out he and his family had died I was saddened, and then sickened when the details started coming out. But the more details that come out and the more I see the media spewing venom and nonsense out there, the more I find that I am actually sick before I am sad. Sick over the handling of the case by the media, and saddened that what is a tragedy on all sides is being handled more like a horror movie.

The media has really been disgusting with this. I just saw Bill OReilly and Geraldo using the Wikipedia article to insinuate that the WWE knew Benoit had killed his family, and that perhaps there was some sort of quadruple murder conspiracy involving steroids going on (Benoits + Sherri + Kevin Sullivan SHOCKINGLY knowing all of them = steroid conspiracy, apparantly), and its all just so pathetically sick and vulture like.

Steroids certainly had some role in this, but to insist that this was strictly a roid rage incident over and over again and coming up with bizarre steroid conspiracy theories while ignoring all the signs that seem to point to this actually being yet another complicated story of family annihilation to me is a disservice to the memory of the departed.

I don't mean to cut a promo on you all, but I didn't have anywhere else to vent this really. The usual messageboards I post on are full of 14 year old punk rock kids who just think this is all a big laugh and don't actually want to discuss anything.



Biddip-bo!
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 67 days
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#406 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80

I just heard that longtime CRZ favorite STEVE BLACKMAN has made an appearance on one of those TV news programs.



Mark Coale
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CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#407 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
Has anybody heard or seen Hogan lately?? His website has been "Under Construction" for 2 years now.



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Deputy Marshall
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Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 22 hours
#408 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Has anybody heard or seen Hogan lately?

I'm sure he's been inundated with phone calls, just as I'm sure he'll keep turning down every single one of them.

Call it a hunch.
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 54 days
Last activity: 50 days
#409 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    I just heard that longtime CRZ favorite STEVE BLACKMAN has made an appearance on one of those TV news programs.


I caught this, it was Blackman, Marc Mero and Meltzer for much of the show with Dan Abrams (sitting in for Scarborough) on MSNBC. I thought they came off pretty well, trying to educate the media that while the steroid angle may be a part of the explanation, the story they should be looking at is the lifestyle associated with getting through 200+ nights of performing per year.

Meltzer also debunked the Wikipedia angle that seems to be the controversy du jour tonight. But I really haven't seen anyone get out the word that WWE saying that Benoit was "negative" on his last drug test does not necessarily mean he had no steroids in his system for that test. At least I believe the "wellness policy" allows certain levels of steroids if you have a prescription.
jwrestle
Lap cheong








Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

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#410 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.46
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    But I really haven't seen anyone get out the word that WWE saying that Benoit was "negative" on his last drug test does not necessarily mean he had no steroids in his system for that test. At least I believe the "wellness policy" allows certain levels of steroids if you have a prescription.


Just to give you some kind of idea of what we're talking about just in case you haven't done your own research by now.

The article is not about wrestling or Benoit

    Originally posted by The Washington Post

    Ratios over 6-to-1 are considered high. The "B" sample, which was not analyzed until late January, showed a similarly high level, around 14-to-1.

Washington Post Article

I heard this on Between the Ropes last night as part of serious discussion. What is quoted above is the Olympics standard for screening for the allowed level(s).

The WWE "standard" is 10-to-1 from what I heard reported which is fairly high. Yet the baseline could be higher just to say that someone tested 12-to-1 then came in for another then tested 10-to-1 it is considered improvement by the WWE. So, yes, the wellness policy is in huge question, scrutiny, right now.




Soapbox Heroes
"World, Canadian, Celtic, Fusion all pulled off as there own."
CxMorgado
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 243 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#411 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by jwrestle
      Originally posted by TheOldMan
      But I really haven't seen anyone get out the word that WWE saying that Benoit was "negative" on his last drug test does not necessarily mean he had no steroids in his system for that test. At least I believe the "wellness policy" allows certain levels of steroids if you have a prescription.


    Just to give you some kind of idea of what we're talking about just in case you haven't done your own research by now.

    The article is not about wrestling or Benoit

      Originally posted by The Washington Post

      Ratios over 6-to-1 are considered high. The "B" sample, which was not analyzed until late January, showed a similarly high level, around 14-to-1.

    Washington Post Article

    I heard this on Between the Ropes last night as part of serious discussion. What is quoted above is the Olympics standard for screening for the allowed level(s).

    The WWE "standard" is 10-to-1 from what I heard reported which is fairly high. Yet the baseline could be higher just to say that someone tested 12-to-1 then came in for another then tested 10-to-1 it is considered improvement by the WWE. So, yes, the wellness policy is in huge question, scrutiny, right now.



According to this article, the WWE's ratio is 4 to 1...

http://www.nysun.com/article/57511

    Originally posted by NY Sun
    According to documents to be found on the company's Web site, for instance, "A Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of four (4) or less shall be regarded as a negative test result." Without going into eye-glazing detail, T/E ratio is the chemical clue steroid tests are often actually used to find. A normal ratio is 1-to-1; baseball, following World Anti-Doping Agency standards, considers 4-to-1 a failure.




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jwrestle
Lap cheong








Since: 4.4.03
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#412 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.46
    Originally posted by CxMorgado
    According to this article, the WWE's ratio is 4 to 1...

    http://www.nysun.com/article/57511

      Originally posted by NY Sun
      According to documents to be found on the company's Web site, for instance, "A Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of four (4) or less shall be regarded as a negative test result." Without going into eye-glazing detail, T/E ratio is the chemical clue steroid tests are often actually used to find. A normal ratio is 1-to-1; baseball, following World Anti-Doping Agency standards, considers 4-to-1 a failure.



Well that clears that up...thank you! I just used the Olympics because was the example used to relate to the WWE one. Apparently they have a fairly strict standard if that article is considered correct. Considering the news source I can say it is highly likely that it has a fair amount of validity.



Soapbox Heroes
"World, Canadian, Celtic, Fusion all pulled off as there own."
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

Since last post: 1038 days
Last activity: 175 days
#413 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.97
(deleted by CajunMan on 28.6.07 2252)
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#414 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.47
I find this interesting, and I'll tell you why afterward ...

    Originally posted by RVD's Myspace
    Thursday, June 28, 2007

    Benoit Balls

    Well, there's no need to wait until we have our heads wrapped around this, because I doubt that'll happen, so here it is. I know that a monster committed those terrible, unforgivable acts of horror. Just like everyone who knew Chris Benoit, I can't think of him as a monster. Not Chris.
    Chris was truly a role model's role model. You simply had to respect him and admire his focus and unmatched discipline. If I ever got asked a question about who I looked up to the most in the business, you guessed it. That's me sharing a real feeling with you. Not talking about bull shit that I have little interest in, like who would I like most to wrestle with, or what's my favorite color, but who I actually looked up to in the dressing room. It's Chris Benoit- in the ring and in the dressing room and with his family.
    The last time I talked to Chris, a few weeks ago, he told me how much he respected me for stepping away from the business. His message now comes to me from beyond. He said "Some of us don't know when to get out." I told him that I always held a little contempt for him telling me back in 1992 that I was a dumb-ass for wanting to quit WCW, and mentioned the irony.
    Over the last several years, on overseas tours I'd always see Chris in the gym when the other guys were recovering from the night before. He'd train hard and sometimes I'd see him allowing young wrestlers to follow his lead and get a guaranteed killer workout. He took pride in what he did and set a great example for others, myself included, to follow.
    How many murderers…baby murderers at that… are praised so highly by EVERYONE who knew them? This is all so bizarre and new information seems to come out every few hours but I can't imagine we'll ever understand what happened here. It appears that Chris took the answers with him. To tell you the honest truth, the easiest thing for me to believe at this moment is that if no frame work was involved, he was taken over by demonic energies with no compassion. I have to believe this is often the case with such inhumane acts.
    Nancy, Daniel and Chris's tragic deaths obviously have affected a lot of people. Just remember, there's enough hate in this world. Hateful thoughts do not move us in the right direction, so make a conscious effort to remember that. It's important now and always.




Now maybe I'm wrong, but I remember hearing a major sticking point in the RVD contract signing was him wanting to take a couple of months off to 'recharge'. The way RVD puts it Benoit seems envious of the fact that RVD was able to stand firm and just take a time out.

Looking back at this RVD/WWE impasse now it really makes the business seem a little harsher. I have a feeling most of the wrestlers would like some time off to recharge but many are too afraid of losing whatever spot they have and only a few like Jericho, Big Show and RVD actually do it.

Then again it's possible that some of these guys are like war veterans in a way and just can't get reacquainted with normal life and have to go back out on the road.

Then again it is just a modern day carnivale, just on a larger scale.






thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 15 hours
#415 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

    According to this article, the WWE's ratio is 4 to 1...

    http://www.nysun.com/article/57511

      Originally posted by NY Sun
      According to documents to be found on the company's Web site, for instance, "A Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of four (4) or less shall be regarded as a negative test result." Without going into eye-glazing detail, T/E ratio is the chemical clue steroid tests are often actually used to find. A normal ratio is 1-to-1; baseball, following World Anti-Doping Agency standards, considers 4-to-1 a failure.



This is not completely correct. Figure 4 reprinted the relevant section on this from the drug policy, back March 6th, 2006


    (c) For testosterone, the following standards shall apply: 1. A Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T/E) ratio above ten (10) shall be conclusively regarded as a positive test result. 2. A Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T/E) ratio greater than four (4) but less than ten (10) shall require follow-up testing and/or medical evaluation to determine if the test shall be interpreted as positive for the active use of Testosterone or evidence of other steroids influencing the T/E ratio. 3. A Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of four (4) or less shall be regarded as a negative test result.


So anything from 4:1 to 10:1 means a retest. You have to beat 10:1 to get an immediate failure, unless they've changed this and I forgot.



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2476 days
Last activity: 2363 days
#416 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.05
Do you really all think this was related to steroids? I mean come on! Is it really that great of a story that steroids "make you fucking insane crazy!!!!!" Let's get serious.

If you want to learn about steroids, you need to look no further than pro bodybuilding. The most obvious case is that of Craig Titus.

He is also a murderer and he has more than most likely taken many many many more steroids than Benoit. But he is not the biggest bodybuilder. Has Ronnie Coleman killed anyone? Jay Cutler? Dexter Jackson? No.

Roid rage causes MOMENTS of anger. Not days. Even IF (and it is a great if) Vince and WWE Inc. caused (quite a strong word!) Benoit to kill Nancy, to call the murder of the Daniel to be beyond Benoit's fault is ridiculous. If he was too afraid to face public scrutiny, he could have just killed himself. He was messed up. Maybe he wanted to "save" his son from living with his condition. We will probably never know.

Should we blame antidepressants? I don't know. People say that they cause suicide attempts. Well, really? People that are prescribed those drugs are ALREADY AT RISK for suicide, so the numbers of suicided attempts should already be at risk.

To summarize my sentiment. Speculation won't help. Chris Benoit was the author of his deeds, not VKM or the WWE. (and this is coming from an inactive wrestling fan with no real dog in the fight).
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
#417 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.97
Excerpts from an e-mail, sent to my by a friend.

"Fragile X is a condition in which after around 200 permutations of the male X gene, it degrades, causing loss of genetic information during foetal gestation that leads to cognitive defecits presenting similarly to autism. The important thing to note here is that if his son has Fragile X, that makes Chris number 199. This will inevitably mean he'll have cognitive deficits in higher-order thinking, which would explain his woodenness on the mic and the Chris Houdini stuff. Again, many of his quirks would fit with an aspergers or autistic framework. If he already has cognitive problems which centre on a deficit in interpersonal relationships, he's instantly more vulnerable to a whole host of personality disorders. Add to that a life portraying physical violence and the likely abuse of steroids at some point in his career, and you have a cocktail of problems that can start to express what may have been affecting his mindset."

Now, we have since learned he was using hard drugs, increased his painkiller consumption, under massive amounts of stress particularly due to the loss of Eddie Gurerrero, had diminished testerone levels which usually causes depression, was paranoid, wouldn't let his wife leave the house, thought he was being followed, and was taking severe blows to the head as a part of his job.

I bring this up not to defend what he did, which I don't think anyone is attempting to do, but to try and draw a distinction between "Chris Benoit was evil" and "Chris Benoit was mentally ill", while "Author of his deeds" is becoming the new "stay the course" for people who don't like, or want, to think.



Was It Something I Said?
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1929 days
Last activity: 1454 days
#418 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.85
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Excerpts from an e-mail, sent to my by a friend.

    "Fragile X is a condition in which after around 200 permutations of the male X gene, it degrades, causing loss of genetic information during foetal gestation that leads to cognitive defecits presenting similarly to autism. The important thing to note here is that if his son has Fragile X, that makes Chris number 199. This will inevitably mean he'll have cognitive deficits in higher-order thinking, which would explain his woodenness on the mic and the Chris Houdini stuff. Again, many of his quirks would fit with an aspergers or autistic framework. If he already has cognitive problems which centre on a deficit in interpersonal relationships, he's instantly more vulnerable to a whole host of personality disorders. Add to that a life portraying physical violence and the likely abuse of steroids at some point in his career, and you have a cocktail of problems that can start to express what may have been affecting his mindset."

    Now, we have since learned he was using hard drugs, increased his painkiller consumption, under massive amounts of stress particularly due to the loss of Eddie Gurerrero, had diminished testerone levels which usually causes depression, was paranoid, wouldn't let his wife leave the house, thought he was being followed, and was taking severe blows to the head as a part of his job.

    I bring this up not to defend what he did, which I don't think anyone is attempting to do, but to try and draw a distinction between "Chris Benoit was evil" and "Chris Benoit was mentally ill", while "Author of his deeds" is becoming the new "stay the course" for people who don't like, or want, to think.


You know what fuck it. I never should have deleted my previous post but I am going to call you on your bullshit for what may be my last time.

While I never gave a shit that the majority of this board never saw through your trolling, I could chalk most of it to playing devil's advocate. Wrestling fans = easy targets. We both know what you are doing.

Tell me though, is it your difficult job, drug use or stress level that is to blame for your fucked up posting?



Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#419 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.98
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Excerpts from an e-mail, sent to my by a friend.

    "Fragile X is a condition in which after around 200 permutations of the male X gene, it degrades, causing loss of genetic information during foetal gestation that leads to cognitive defecits presenting similarly to autism. The important thing to note here is that if his son has Fragile X, that makes Chris number 199. This will inevitably mean he'll have cognitive deficits in higher-order thinking, which would explain his woodenness on the mic and the Chris Houdini stuff.


Your friend doesn't have the foggiest clue what he's talking about. It's not that the gene "degrades"; it's that there are more than 200 copies of the gene on one chromosome. And in any event Fragile X is always inhereted by boys from the mother, as they only get an X chromosome from a mother (they get a Y from the father). So this makes no sense.

http://www.dnadirect.com/patients/tests/infertility/more_about/whatIsFX.jsp
crimson
Weisswurst








Since: 12.4.07

Since last post: 2609 days
Last activity: 2561 days
#420 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.32
http://winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2007/06/29/4299551-sun.html

Whoah, what got into Bruce Hart? He SOOO flat out contradicts what every other person who knew Benoit keeps saying!
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