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22.7.14 1354
The W - Pro Wrestling - Chris Benoit passes away (Page 17)
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Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#321 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.14
    Originally posted by rv581
    Or am I grasping at straws?


I am by no means an expert in this, but I do think you have a good point. That being said, it still sickens me that anyone can think that they're "bettering" their child's future by killing him/her. There has to be some mental sickness for one to think like that.

We could all sit and debate this all day or for the rest of our lives, but the reasons why Chris Benoit did this will probably never be fully known in this lifetime.
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 279 days
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#322 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
The last time I saw the picture that is used in today's banner I probably thought "awesome." Now what I think is "scary."

Will anybody ever be able to do a flying headbutt or multiple German suplexes in a row without it feeling weird? I don't think so, not for a few years at least. I wonder what Dynamite Kid Tom Billington is thinking about this, as he was pretty much Benoit's idol.



Lloyd: When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I'd do anything to bone her.
Harry: That's a special feeling.
Captaincuba
Italian








Since: 25.10.05

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#323 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.61
Benoit was a perfectionist. His workplace was the only place he was succeeding at. Case in point:

Fragile X Syndrome - Is INHERITED. I can see where this might be the start of his depression. An imperfect son, which I'm sure he believed he himself caused (steroids, etc). OR he blames her for his condition.

His marriage was not perfect.

Now, being that he had paranoid tendencies, he gets demoted to ECW champ. The one place where he could be perfect...the end is near.

What does he have after WWE? Road Agent? The vicious cycle continues.

I don't think he snapped, I think he was walking a razor's edge for a while and it all came crumbling down on him. I'm not making excuses for him, but a picture is coming together.

CC
Cheesehead
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Since: 24.10.03
From: WI, now in the land of the Vikings...*shudder*

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#324 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by Mayhem
    I am by no means an expert in this, but I do think you have a good point. That being said, it still sickens me that anyone can think that they're "bettering" their child's future by killing him/her. There has to be some mental sickness for one to think like that.


I'm no expert either but unfortunately I do have some experience with schizophrenia. I am not saying that is what happened with Chris, but the paranoia makes me wonder. My uncle, who has schizophrenia, killed my grandmother so that she could be with my grandfather(previously deceased)and not with her then boyfriend whom everyone thought was a jerk. This was his reasoning--completely irrational, but rational to his troubled mind. It was also premeditated.

Mental illness is a scary thing, and unfortunately most of the time goes untreated. I am not trying to make excuses for Chris, nor saying that is what happened...its just another perspective.



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Since: 24.6.07
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#325 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.67
I just have a feeling this story is going to keep getting worse and worse. :(



http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/9471.html
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#326 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.54
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

    Originally posted by Captaincuba
    Fragile X Syndrome - Is INHERITED. I can see where this might be the start of his depression. An imperfect son, which I'm sure he believed he himself caused (steroids, etc). OR he blames her for his condition.

If Daniel had Fragile X syndrome, simple genetics says Nancy would be the carrier, not Chris (since the man always passes the Y chromosome to his sons). So definitely the latter is a possible.



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While the switch from Cena to RVD should alleviate some complaints, the inevitability of the belt's return to Cena (note where Summerslam is this year) and the poor initial showing by the new ECW are enough to keep the indicator where it is for now. The pieces are in place, though, especially on RAW, for improvements to be made to the IWC's psyche in the near future.
Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#327 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
So a guy killed his wife and sick child, then turned the gun on himself.

Psychology aside, just repeat that last sentence to yourself a few times. It's irrational and monsterous.



Hold nothing sacred and you'll never be dissapointed. Especially not this statement.
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 84 days
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#328 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86

Latest article at CNN.com with more crime scene details and some steroids talk:


    FAYETTEVILLE, Georgia (CNN) -- The discovery of anabolic steroids in pro-wrestler Chris Benoit's home has raised speculation that the performance-enhancing drugs may be linked to his death and the killings of his wife and young son.

    The 40-year-old champion strangled his wife, Nancy Benoit, and suffocated his 7-year-old son Daniel, authorities said, before he hanged himself on a portable weight machine inside his lavish home outside Atlanta. Police have said no motive has been determined.

    "A lot of prescription medication" was found in the home, including anabolic steroids, said Fayette County Sheriff Lt. Tommy Pope. (Watch the house where Chris Benoit, police say, killed his wife and son Video)

    But authorities were still waiting on toxicology reports, which could take several weeks, to determine what, if any, medication was found in the bodies.

    Chris Benoit was a pro-wrestler for 22 years and star of World Wrestling Entertainment, which strongly denounced any suggestion that steroid use could be connected to the tragedy.

    The WWE said Benoit tested negative for drugs during an independently administered evaluation on April 10.

    CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta said Wednesday that it may never be known whether the deaths were linked to steroids or so-called "roid-rage."

    "The drugs said to be found in the home are a synthetic form of testosterone," Gupta said. "A lot of people use it to build muscle mass, but there are longstanding known relationships between the steroids and roid rage. It could lead to psychosis and anti-social behavior and depression."

    But the WWE said evidence gathered in the investigation indicates "deliberation, not rage."

    "The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death," said a statement posted on the company's Web site. "By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage."

    Investigators found the bodies of Nancy and Daniel Benoit with Bibles placed next to them, authorities have said. "The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage," said the WWE.

    Former professional wrestler Del Wilkes said athletes use steroids to gain strength and size, which are key to success in the wrestling world. But he warned that the drugs sometimes come with "moments of uncontrollable rage."

    "You can feel it coming on but there's nothing you can do about it," Wilkes said. "The next thing you know, a minor argument has gone into a full-fledged rage, when you've got your hands around somebody's neck. You're in a fight and doing things you wouldn't normally do."

    Wilkes also said the drugs can also cause "tremendous" depression "when guys are coming off steroids after they've been on it for a long period of time."

    An official who is part of the investigation told CNN that Benoit's name was on receipts that indicated he had purchased shipments of anabolic steroids and human growth hormones from Signature Pharmacy, an Orlando, Florida, facility that is at the center of a nationwide investigation into the sale of illegal steroids.

    As the investigation unfolded Wednesday, details about events inside the home began to emerge.

    Needle marks were found in Daniel's arm, said Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard. He said authorities suspect "that the boy had been taking growth hormones for quite some time," and are hoping to prove that with toxicology. The boy, Ballard said, was diagnosed with a form of dwarfism.

    Daniel was found face down on his bed, but authorities said they do not know whether he was sleeping when he was killed. Ballard said authorities believe the child was asphyxiated using a choke hold. Benoit hung himself using the cord on a portable weight machine, Ballard said.

    Ballard said Nancy Benoit's body was found face down on the floor in an upstairs family room, wrapped in a blanket with her feet and wrists bound and blood under her head.

    Two days before Benoit and his family were found dead, the wrestler told co-workers by phone his wife and son were sick with food poisoning and he had been having a stressful day, according to the WWE.

    Chris Benoit left no suicide note, Pope said, but had sent text messages to a co-worker early Sunday, which was received several hours later. He refused to divulge the contents of the messages.

    The WWE, however, said the five text messages were sent to co-workers between 3:51 a.m. and 3:58 a.m. using both Chris Benoit's and Nancy Benoit's cell phones. Four of them were the Benoits' address; the fifth said that the family's dogs were in the enclosed pool area and noted a garage side door was open.

    The WWE said it made numerous attempts to contact Chris Benoit at his home and at Atlanta-area hospitals. At 12:30 p.m. on Monday, it learned of the text messages and contacted police, the statement said.

    "In a community like this, it's just bizarre to have a murder-suicide, certainly involving the death of a 7-year-old child," Ballard told reporters. "I think that's what I'm struck by most ... there's a 7-year-old boy who is dead."

    Chris Benoit once had been arrested on a charge of driving under the influence in another Fayette County jurisdiction, authorities said, but had no other criminal record.

    CNN learned that divorce papers for the couple were filed in Fayette County in 2003, but the divorce never took place. Ballard said it was his understanding that a protection order was sought in 2003, but later dismissed. He had he had not seen the filings.




CLICK OR DIE
Parts Unknown
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

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#329 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
(deleted by Parts Unknown on 27.6.07 1350)
Hokienautic
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 53 min.
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#330 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
Alex Marvez had an online chat at Washingtonpost.com starting at 230pm today. You can check out the transcript here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/06/26/DI2007062601477.html

Nothing really new, but some interesting questions.
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 days
#331 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.25
As a father if an autistic 8 year old son AND a wife that suffers from depression, I feel this is an act of a coward. In addition to my son, I have three other children all younger than him. As many of you know, raising a child is stressful. Raising a autistic or developmentally challenged children is stessful times one million. My son consumes my life more so than my other three kids combined. There is worrying about him socially, intellectually and emotionally - both now, in the near future and the distant future. Whereas I do not worry about my other three childrens future, I worry about who is going to be there for my son when he is 40 and I am either too old or deceased to help him. It is my last thought when I sleep and my first waking thought. And, having a wife who is suffering from depression, which is a lifelong battle, it makes the stress even more prevelant. But I know this. And I knew when my son was diagnosed that there were certain things I needed to do to be a better father to him. I stopped drinking (except for light social affairs) even though I did not have a problem because I knew alcohol makes things worse. I turned down and promotion because i knew the added stress and travel would be too much for my family to deal with. And through it all I do not regret a thing because in the end, I am doing it for the people I love and the people who count on me to make their lives better, day in and day out.

However, I can see how he could have snapped, even wothout steroids. It is so draining physically and emotionally some days raising a developmentally challenged child. There are times where I have snapped and yelled at whoever was near just to vent. Thankfully, those times have not been frequent. I also belong to a support group so I can talk to people who are int he same boat and can understand my frustrations and pain. But never in his almost 9 years of live have I ever regretted having him or even thought once of hurting him. Or my other children for that matter.

If things were bad for Chirs Benoit and he was at then end of his rope, then he should have killed himself and spared his kid and wife. At to make matters worse, the coward he was in killing them is nothing compared to the ultimate act of cowardness - killing himself afterwards to avoid repercutions.

I do not care what comes out of this as Roid Rage is no longer a viable excuse since this took place over three days. He was one of the best wrestlers ever. Nothing will change that. But my appreciation of him and his matches will be non existant. I will never be able to watch one of his matches ever again. Because every time I see his pocture, I don;t think wrestler - I think murderer and coward.

If there is one, I hope he is burning in hell.



Fry crack corn and I don't care
Leela crack corn I still don't care
Bender crack corn and he is great
Take that you stupid corn!

"just because you ARE a character does not mean you HAVE character.."
Venom
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Since: 15.1.03

Since last post: 2512 days
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#332 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
Iím at the point now where I simply DONíT want to remember Benoit, in ring or otherwise. I was never that big of a Benoit fan to begin with, being a first and foremost Jericholic from the late 90ís onward. I always appreciated and understood that he was a great wrestler and could put on great matches, but I could just never get into him as much as other people obviously could. Maybe that makes my posts and condemnation of him that much easier.

Iím glad the WWE erased him from history. I donít want to fill my heart with hatred and condemn the man to hell and fantasize about him roasting. I simply want him to go away and be forgotten, mostly because I donít want him to eulogized and memorialized as a ďgreat wrestler who was caught in a tragic ending.Ē

I donít want this man to be remembered alongside true tradgedies like Owen and Eddie. Owen was an underappreciated great, a fun-loving guy who I met several times before his death, who died in a freak accident doing a stupid stunt. Eddie was a man who had turned his life around, for his family and himself, only to find out that the damage had already been done from years prior and it was too late to stop. These were truly great men, worthy of tears and praise in their afterlife.

Benoit, on the other hand, I just want to forget.
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 84 days
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#333 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.88

Of course my heart goes out to Nancy & Daniel and their families. And of course Benoit was a sick bastard and a coward to do this. And I completely understand all of the Benoit-hate in this thread, but am I the only one who feels a little sorry for him at the same time?

Not because he is dead, and not because I think he is a victim in any sense here, but because of the state of mind he must've been in to do all of this in the first place.

Now that most of the shock has worn off (even though it felt weird to type the words "Benoit" and "coward" in the same sentence above), I am left feeling more sadness than anger. Maybe the anger comes next? I dont know.


And please, re-read everything I said above a couple times before you crucify me for saying things that I didnt say.






CLICK OR DIE
Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

Since last post: 15 hours
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#334 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    Of course my heart goes out to Nancy & Daniel and their families. And of course Benoit was a sick bastard and a coward to do this. And I completely understand all of the Benoit-hate in this thread, but am I the only one who feels a little sorry for him at the same time?

    Not because he is dead, and not because I think he is a victim in any sense here, but because of the state of mind he must've been in to do all of this in the first place.


I keep thinking to myself - if I had a friend who had done something like this, I would beating myself up trying to figure out if there was something I could have done, something I should have noticed... anything that could have helped my friend not reach this point. I would be completely devastated that I didn't notice even the slightest sign of something wrong.



"Oh my God! They have a shit-load of Cockapoo stuff!"
-Jennifer's greatest quote... ever.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#335 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by Leroy
    I keep thinking to myself - if I had a friend who had done something like this, I would beating myself up trying to figure out if there was something I could have done, something I should have noticed... anything that could have helped my friend not reach this point. I would be completely devastated that I didn't notice even the slightest sign of something wrong.


I've been having similar thoughts, especially after seeing the West Coast feed of the tribute and knowing that the details were coming out. There are plenty of people to whom Chris Benoit was more than a beloved wrestler, he was a father, a brother, a son, and a friend. It's easy to be dogmatic and curse him behind the comfort of anonymity and distance from the situation, but the amount of pure sadness, REAL sadness, that this has caused is as tragic as the loss of life.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
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Since: 19.3.02
From: Ontario, Canada

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#336 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88
An article on the concept of family annihilators that was posted on another board. I don't know if I'm going through this with 20/20 hindsight, or trying to cold read for hits, but a lot of this rings scarily true. I made a slight edit to the story, just because there is a reference in there that could be taken the wrong way in a wrestling forum.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,,1939797,00.html

'The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, a good provider who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father,' Levin said. 'He quite often tends to be quite isolated. He is often profoundly dedicated to his family, but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy, but then suffers some catastrophic loss. It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship. He doesn't hate his children, but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life. He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness. He wants to execute revenge and the motive is almost always to "get even".'

Research from the States shows that family annihilators rarely have a prior criminal record. However, many experts believe there is often a prior pattern of domestic abuse. A report published two years ago in Britain by Women's Aid, called Twenty-nine child homicides, found that, out of 13 families studied, domestic violence was a feature in 11. In one of the other two cases, the mother spoke of her ex-partner's obsessively controlling behaviour.

'To the outside world, these crimes seem to come out of nowhere,' continued Levin. 'The perpetrators have not previously been involved in criminal behaviour. Nor do they tend to be on drugs or drinking heavily when they commit the crime. However, if psychologists had seen them in advance, they would have spotted the warning signs. They would have noticed how the person reacted to things not going his way - the irrational rage and the blaming of others. These people often also regard their partner and children as their own possessions.'

In the majority of cases, if the perpetrator fails in his own suicide, as in the (X) and (X) cases, they almost always plead some form of insanity.

But Levin rejected this: 'These are executions. They are never spontaneous. They are well planned and selective. They are not carried out in the heat of the moment or in a fit of rage. They are very methodical and it is often planned out for a long time. There are certain people the killer blames for his problems. If a friend came along, he wouldn't kill him or her. He kills his children to get even with his wife because he blames her and he hates her. The killer feels he has lost control. Annihilating his family is a way of regaining control. It is a methodical, selective murder by a rational, loving father. That's why it is so terrifying.'

Although these cases are more common than child murders by a stranger, they often do not receive the same media coverage. Part of the reason is that the perpetrator often takes his own life as well - meaning there is no court case. But Levin said he also felt people were reluctant to think too much about such abhorrent crimes.



JustinShapiro
Scrapple
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 1 min.
#337 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
    Originally posted by Wpob
    At to make matters worse, the coward he was in killing them is nothing compared to the ultimate act of cowardness - killing himself afterwards to avoid repercutions.


The repercussion of ... death? He really swerved us there.

Tragedy #4: that Chris Benoit isn't still alive for other people's catharsis? I dunno, it's f'd up to talk about but I look at suicide as a remorseful or at least despondent act. I don't really see how Benoit killing himself makes matters any worse.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 27.6.07 1742)
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 118 days
Last activity: 1 day
#338 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.10
I wrote a post back in the Virginia Tech shooting thread (The W) which has some applicability here as well.

This is mental illness. It can be chronic, it can be incremental, it can appear as an accute onset "snap". Many people with mental illness can be highly functional & rational in parts of their lives, while being plagued with psychotic thinking in other areas.

It is a fact of life that, sometimes, people "lose their minds". Sometimes they shut down, sometimes they act out only upon themselves, & sometimes they act out upon others. Sometimes that acting out can be horrific by all rational standards.

This is a very scary fact. And because, by definition, there is no rational explanation for such an event, it's very difficult to grasp. Fortunately, events of this severity happen fairly rarely; it isn't something that most people have much experience having to deal with. But mental breakdowns at varying degrees of severity do happen as part of the human experience.

It is not reasonable or rational to expect psychotic behaviour to make sense in the context of "sane" or "right" thinking. It doesn't. It won't. It can't. There is no rational justification, there is no sane reason. You simply cannot apply "right thinking" principles to psychotic thinking. That's part of what makes it so scary.

If an outside observer needs to feel angry, that's their feelings, their prerogative , & their grief handling.

As somebody upstream already mentioned, it is a very normal, natural & human thing to want to make sense of horrific events, or at least derive some meaning from them. Making "sense" of insanity doesn't make sense, so we're left with trying to derive some meaning. Topics like steroid abuse or repeated concussive damage are handy specific, tangible topics, with some chance that those things might be controllable. That makes them handy targets for "blame".

I personally believe that the meaning to be taken from this tragedy is in the area of public understanding of mental health. But that's a difficult problem -- pinning "the blame" on something more tangible is easier.

------------

Here's a specific homework for anybody reading this: Identify at least 2 people in your current life in whom you can confide any of your deepest, real feelings. Not just "I'm pissed at my boss.", but "My boss makes me feel like a moron." That sort of thing. Check in with them: "Y'know, this Chris Benoit thing has me kinda shaken/angry/concerned/... If somebody like that didn't have anybody he could go to ... What if I needed somebody to really talk to? And what if you did?"

If you don't have somebody like that, what would you do if your world caved in? The macho response is "Just handle it myself." Like Chris did.
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#339 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
I have read all the posts here and want to thank everyone for their well-thought. honest and mature posts.
It helps a little to deal with this when you can read what everyone else is thinking and feeling.

This has really been upsetting because it throws out of whack my whole sense of good person versus bad person. I think most people like to think they are a good judge of character. You follow a person- even on TV- long enough and you think you know who they are. Even in the fake world of wrestling, you can get an idea of real personalities-sometimes with the help of the internet rumor mill.
I knew about Stone Cold's marital troubles, Hogan's politics, HBK's tantrums, Scott Hall's drinking, the Edge/Lita/Matt Hardy thing etc....

But Chris Benoit?????

I never heard a thing! Not even him refusing to sign an autograph. I guess the way he ended up with Nancy was a little shady but that was years ago.

What's next? John Cena operates an orphan sweatshop in his garage? Rey Mysterio beats puppies? I don't mean to sound flip, but this is just INSANE.

I guess the fact that this was so extreme will guarantee it doesn't get turned into an angle.
It was horrible watch HHH look in fear as the "ghost" of Eddie was messing with him and watch Eddie's widow become an on-screen character. This makes the Referee Tim White "suicide as comedy" bits even less funny than they were.

MSNBC had Bret Hart on last night and after kept showing clips of Benoit celebrating in the ring at WMXX and hugging Nancy and hugging Daniel and they all just looked so happy.
I remember being happy for him and I barely watched him prior to 2000.

Can I seperate the man and the performer?
I really don't know the answer yet. Time will tell.



(edited by dwaters on 27.6.07 1539)


Michael Scott: A boss's salary isn't just about money, it is about perks. It... for example, every year I get a $100 gas card... Can't put a price tag on that.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 79 days
Last activity: 1 day
#340 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Wpob
      At to make matters worse, the coward he was in killing them is nothing compared to the ultimate act of cowardness - killing himself afterwards to avoid repercutions.


    The repercussion of ... death? He really swerved us there.

    Tragedy #4: that Chris Benoit isn't still alive for other people's catharsis? I dunno, it's f'd up to talk about but I look at suicide as a remorseful or at least despondent act. I don't really see how Benoit killing himself makes matters any worse.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 27.6.07 1742)


Not even talking about this case specifically, in general I think suicide is one the most cowardly acts one can perform. It is generally done to avoid something, whether it is living with guilt, having to face consequences for one's actions, having to face those impacted by your decisions, having to live with the pressures of daily life, etc. You decide life's too tough so you quit. I don't know if it makes matters any worse in this particular case, but I am pretty sure it didn't make anything better and I personally have no problem with anyone characterizing the act as cowardly.

Edit: Actually thinking about your question of "other people's cartharsis", if by other people you mean people on this message board, then no, it's not a tragedy. But if you mean family members and friends, perhaps it really is. Some people do seem to get some sense of closure if they can find out some sort of "why". Some people really appear to feel better when they get an apology and some sense of remorse, even for crimes as heinous as this one. But when a guy takes his own life, none of these things can happen.



(edited by ges7184 on 27.6.07 1740)

The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
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- tomvejada, XWF PPV Tomorrow? (2003)
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