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The W - Movies & TV - Charlie's Greatest Hits (5/16/07)
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Mr Shh
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
Very powerful, very emotional episode to build up to what should be an awesome finale.

We're getting into some curious literary symbolism here: the "looking glass" hatch, the white rabbit Dharma logo, the white rabbit that Alex (Alice?) was gutting in front of Ben...but what's it all mean?? I'm dying to find out what other purpose the hatch serves besides docking subs. But I'm glad we FINALLY found out what that damn underwater cable was.

Jack is still a tool, but he did gain back some significant bad-assery points tonight. That scene where Jack laid out the revised gameplan to the camp was awesome.

What's making me scratch my head now (probably more than it should) - Nadia has been making more than a few seemingly meaningless cameos. What in the heck is going on there?

Seeing Rose and Bernard makes me happy. Seeing Locke will make me much happier.

Does anyone else find it curious that we did NOT see Desmond's flashes this time around? Was he being entirely honest when telling Charlie about his flash? I wonder if he really did see Claire and Aaron getting rescued. Was he manipulating Charlie, maybe? But if that's the case, then you really can't explain why Desmond was willing to go in Charlie's place (Actually, I can't explain at all why Desmond was willing to go in Charlie's place. That does not make sense to me.).

Charlie's flashbacks and the whole flashback structure were very,very good, but it reminded me of a nagging question I had after last week. When we see flashbacks, we are seeing them at the same time as the character is having them, right? We are "watching" the memories at the same time as the character is remembering them. Well, during last week's opening flashback, Ben surely was NOT remembering the moment he was born just outside of Portland. I wonder if there's something to that or if it's dramatic license on the writers' parts.

(edited by Mr Shh on 17.5.07 0110)
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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
If I'm making a top five of my list, I probably include the three-way in Helsinki. I'm just saying, is all.


    Does anyone else find it curious that we did NOT see Desmond's flashes this time around? Was he being entirely honest when telling Charlie about his flash? I wonder if he really did see Claire and Aaron getting rescued. Was he manipulating Charlie, maybe? But if that's the case, then you really can't explain why Desmond was willing to go in Charlie's place (Actually, I can't explain at all why Desmond was willing to go in Charlie's place. That does not make sense to me.).


If Desmond really was lying about the details of his flash, then maybe his last-minute offer was because he had a change of heart and didn't want Charlie to sacrifice himself. As we saw in Catch-22, Des is a good guy at heart --- he just can't let his selfishness cost someone their life. Now, this may mean that Desmond spends next episode waking up and thinking 'Oh crap, Charlie went after all, I have to go save him!'





Quezzy
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Since: 6.1.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
It was good to see Rose and Bernard but I have to think when two characters have not been used for as long as they have and they suddenly reappear then it's probably so they can have somebody get killed without having to kill a main player. The tent bombings have to go wrong in some way and they're not killing Sayid and hopefully not Jin, so I'm betting Bernard bites it.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
Boy, what an emotional episode. I don't ever get emotional watching television, but this one really got to me. Excellent stuff. Emmy nomination for Dominic Monaghan?

However, when he made it into the Looking Glass station and started screaming and carrying on, you just KNEW someone was going to run into the room. I was afraid they were going to kill him on the spot, so I guess it's nice that Charlie's around for at least a little longer.
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    When we see flashbacks, we are seeing them at the same time as the character is having them, right?

I don't think so. I never got the impression that the flashbacks are memories. There are plenty of examples of why that wouldn't work: Ben's birth scene, Libby's presence in one of Hurley's flashbacks, Sawyer appearing in the background of one of Boone's flashbacks, etc. Where'd you get the idea that they are memories that the characters are currently remembering?

- StingArmy

(edited by StingArmy on 17.5.07 0132)
EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.76
I have my own theory that the flashbacks are the characters actually reliving the past. However, they don't realize they are reliving it, so they passive allow things to happen as they did. Desmond's one flashback, when the Swan implosion allowed him to sorta remember who he was, was the only time someone was conscious and could alter events.

That said, its interesting to note that Charlie was playing Wonderwall and Desmond did NOT interrupt him with his whole "I know you..." crazy talk. I suppose that gives credence to the theory that Desmond's super-flashback didn't really happen and was just a dream, but if so, what does that say for his current flashes?

Maybe he wanted to go instead of Charlie cuz he had a flash at the last moment and realized that there were two hot chicks under the water...

I fear for everyone who volunteered to be a shooter.

Jack's assyness is offset by the awesomeness of the fact that he's working with Rousseau and the dynamite. I know that we 'sacrificed' Arzt (if offing a character introduced solely for the purpose of offing him counts as sacrifice) to establish that the dynamite is deadly and accidents happen, but it seems we've gone too long without a random dynamite incident. Is everyone that careful or did they find a fresh batch that somehow didn't sweat so much? (The sticks Juliet and Jack laid in the tent looked pretty clean.)

I enjoyed watching Charlie write out his list, and especially the end with the reveal that he's giving it to Claire. For someone who can see the future, Desmond turns around and gets clocked alot. (Or maybe he knew Charlie would bean him anyway, so his whole "I'll go instead of you" speech was just a gesture.)

I dread having to spend the next week avoiding spoilers...



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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.07
I always thought the flashbacks were just the show format - a device to fill in the motivations of the characters and why they are acting the way that they are. I never thought they were intended to be real-time inserts into the show, or that the character was actively remembering them at the moment they were being shown.

Eddie - thanks, I was trying to remember how Des tied into the earlier Charlie guitar scene. I was expecting to see him and was surprised when that didn't happen.

I'll admit I read the spoilers, and combined with the preview for next week I am definitely looking forward to see where all this goes.




"As you may have read in Robert Parker's Wine Newsletter, 'Donaghy Estates tastes like the urine of Satan, after a hefty portion of asparagus.'" Jack Donaghy, 30 Rock

kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
Well, it was a great episode, but it would have been better if Charlie had died. Seriously though, they set it up perfectly for him to die. The list was sweet, he got to kiss Claire for the 1st time. Then he stumbles into the Atlantis hatch with the gun toting Amazon chicks? Hmm.

The worst part of Charlie not dying is now there is a possibility that we might year his shitty "hit" song yet again!

Good episode though, even though nothing important happened.




Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    That said, its interesting to note that Charlie was playing Wonderwall and Desmond did NOT interrupt him with his whole "I know you..." crazy talk. I suppose that gives credence to the theory that Desmond's super-flashback didn't really happen and was just a dream, but if so, what does that say for his current flashes?

I'm glad you brought this up, I somehow almost forgot what might have been the most important part of the episode. Desmond didn't run up to talk to Charlie because that didn't happen the first time around. What that says to me is that Desmond is actually reliving past events.

Last night when we saw Charlie playing the guitar on the street corner in his flashback, that was the first time that occurred. When we saw Charlie playing the guitar on the street corner in DESMOND'S flashback, that was the second time that occurred.

Desmond may not have been there with Charlie during the original occurrence, but it still happened. Note, for example, how he knew it was about to rain before the showers started. This tells me that his current flashes are the same thing: he may not have been around the first time these events occurred on the island, but they definitely occurred. He is seeing how they would unfold again if everything leading up to those flashes remains the same.

Thoughts?

- StingArmy
estragand
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Since: 18.6.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.59
Nadia's lines sounded a little stiff or forced to me. There's probably a whole 'nother level of significance to her character, though.

For StingArmy's theory about Des's flashback and time loop: "aye".

I kept waiting for it, but I don't think Desmond said "Brother" in this episode. That's like Hurley without a "dude" or Ron Simmons without a "damn".

Oh yeah, I'm sure some nerd, somewhere, is making a joke about Charlie the Hobbit being a "ringbearer". I didn't care for Charlie's previous flashbacks, but this one was okay. I liked his little going away scene with Hurley, too. At times, Hurley comes off like a little kid and he seemed so in that scene.

I also think that the flashbacks are a bit of dramatic license. Sometimes they're relevant to what the character is thinking or doing in that episode. In that case, they're probably remembering some portion of their flashback. Like when Hurley found the van, he was probably actively thinking of his dad and the old car. Or when Kate saw the horse. But others, like Ben's, weren't actively being thought of by the character.

Yeah, I was another who read the spoilers before last night's episode. They were accurate, but there was still a lot of stuff that had to be played out. I don't think they'll ruin the season finale for me at all.



-ES
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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
Was Charlie's busking actually the same as in Desmond's flashback? Surely there was more than one instance in Charlie's life where he was busking on a street corner, and playing Wonderwall.

Some of the wilder theories I've heard about the flashbacks are that they're the knowledge of the characters that the island (or the monster, or Jacob) is collecting to create its visions. Also, from the Matrix-esque "They're all hooked up to some machine" theory, the flashbacks are the implanted memories that the uber-villains (Others, Dharma, whomever) have placed into the minds of these people. This explains why some images and people like Nadia appear in more than one.

But seriously, they're probably just the show's format.



SKLOKAZOID
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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.95
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    Does anyone else find it curious that we did NOT see Desmond's flashes this time around? Was he being entirely honest when telling Charlie about his flash?
Didn't we only see Desmond's flashes when it was a Desmond-centric episode? The episode was filled with Charlie flashbacks, so there wouldn't be room for that.

Good setup episode for the finale. Looking forward to next week.
whatever
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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.07
    Originally posted by estragand
    Nadia's lines sounded a little stiff or forced to me. There's probably a whole 'nother level of significance to her character, though.


    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    What's making me scratch my head now (probably more than it should) - Nadia has been making more than a few seemingly meaningless cameos. What in the heck is going on there?


Please, do you mean Naomi the parachutist? 'Cause Nadia is Sayid's childhood friend. Just want to make sure I'm not missing something.




"As you may have read in Robert Parker's Wine Newsletter, 'Donaghy Estates tastes like the urine of Satan, after a hefty portion of asparagus.'" Jack Donaghy, 30 Rock

Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
    Originally posted by whatever
    Please, do you mean Naomi the parachutist? 'Cause Nadia is Sayid's childhood friend. Just want to make sure I'm not missing something.


Sayid's girl Nadia is the one Charlie rescued from the mugger after Wonderwall was rained out. She was also the one whose house was inspected by Locke last season. Are there other non-Sayid-related appearances by Nadia?

Random thought...blond girl aiming rifle at Charlie in the Looking Glass = Annie?
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
My favorite part of the episode was Charlie's very visibly emotions when Naomi was talking to him being a big star after his death (thrilled), Drive Shaft putting out another album (shocked he was replaced), but it's a greatest hits (relief.)

I think there's something up with Naomi - she seems to know everything too well. We don't actually know that the Lost plane was found underwater with all the bodies inside, we only know that's Naomi's claim.



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samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I think there's something up with Naomi - she seems to know everything too well. We don't actually know that the Lost plane was found underwater with all the bodies inside, we only know that's Naomi's claim.


And Cooper's



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Since: 10.12.01
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
ohhhhhh, that's right. Well, he tended to lie.



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Since: 2.1.02
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
It's been pointed out that Charlie's 2 busking performances apparently occurred on separate days:
Click Here (lost.cubit.net)

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 17.5.07 1620)

EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.76
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    It's been pointed out that Charlie's 2 busking performances apparently occurred on separate days:
    Click Here (lost.cubit.net)

    (edited by Spaceman Spiff on 17.5.07 1620)


Hmmm... that's strange that the writers would have two busking performances so similar (the song AND the rain) and yet not the same without making a point of it. I seem to recall something about the Jin/Sun flashbacks from Exodus, where slight details were off between the two. Is it possible that Desmond didn't entirely remember Charlie's warddrobe correctly?

The only way Desmond's flashes make any kind of sense is if we are watching him on his last go through. Think of Desmond as playing a Lost video game, and his objective is to keep Charlie alive or he gets a game over message. Desmond plays the game and then learns about where all the pitfalls are through trial and error, until the last time, when he's acquired the knowledge and experience he needs to win. That means that the run we are watching is the successful one where he keeps Charlie alive (until Charlie HAS to die, however that may come about.) If this is Desmond's final run, then his encounter with Charlie's busking HAD to have happened -- that's the equivalent of the first stage of the game he played. Unless Desmond can change events but not memories, which doesn't make much sense because that would mean Desmond did interrupt Charlie except that everyone who saw it won't remember it. Perhaps what all this means is that Desmond will 'go back' again, and do something that will stop him from meeting Charlie and also change what Charlie was wearing, such that Charlie's memory last night is the 'final' version. Time travel is never good. Events need to either be static or dynamic, and unless you know EXACTLY how everything plays out (including matching warddrobe), you are setting yourself up for trouble. The more I say, I get the feeling the most parsimonious solution is that it was different days. Oh well...

And good catch on identifying Nadia. I totally missed her at the time. I just figured she was someone important. I wonder if we'll ever find out who any of those three passers-by might have been.



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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.94
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    Jack is still a tool, but he did gain back some significant bad-assery points tonight. That scene where Jack laid out the revised gameplan to the camp was awesome.



Why would Jack want to stay behind as the shooter when Sayid has a military background? It makes me wonder if the fix is in and he's a part of it. Also if they are so short on wire couldn't Jack just have told them about the explosions instead of wasting one?


I think Charlie was wearing a different shirt, it's possible he has played this song a lot on the streets.

Someone mentioned Locke searching Nadia's house in season two, can someone refresh my memory?

The boat scene with Desmond and Charlie might have been one of the better acted ones of the series. Really good stuff there.

Hurley is too fat to ride in the boat.




Stansbury Alum
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Since: 18.5.07

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#20 Posted on
Why couldn't they just cut the cable? Shouldn't someone have at least brought up the possibility?

You could have had Juliet dismiss it by saying it was titanium or something, but I couldn't ignore this obvious question.
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I like the direction they are going with Daryl. Daryl continues to look like the real hero by sticking with his family even though that might be the harder decision.
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