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The W - Football - Charlie Weis done at Notre Dame
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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.03
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4700891

Weis is out, and the Interim Coach is the WR coach. (can't get an accurate spelling of his name). It's about time. Weis has been an embarrassment.
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Psycho Penguin
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
The curse of Lou Holtz continues.



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lotjx
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
Well, its not breaking news since he has been fired since the Pitt or Navy game, this just makes it official. I don't think Weis was an embarrassment. He got them to two BCS bowl games, had a down year after graduating a good chunk of those players and spent the last two years creating a high power offense. Clausen will be a first round pick as well as Brady which if Ty was there wasn't going to happen. His real problem was that he never got those guys motivated to play for big games or after big loses. He has worried too much of the quick strike offense, he never built a defense that could be on the field 65% of the time. Hell, not many defenses can do that at all. People don't like Weis, because he is came off as the fat know it all. Same could be said for Carroll, Meyer, Sabin and Les Miles expect the fat part. But, they win championships either national or conference.

I do hope they look long and hard for the next coach and he be someone that can relate to students, motivate them and win big games as well as some of these smaller loses. I don't think an NFL head coach is the answer. I also hope ESPN doesn't railroad them like they did with Ty. Ty was the real embarrassment. He fit in Standford where there was zero or little expectations for the program. Its a big fish in a little pond for him and he failed when it was the reverse. I have to hear John Saunders or some other black announcer say why not some black assistant coach or head coach in division II be the head coach. Tell that to Florida, USC, Penn State and every other school that has never hired one even though I am sure there are some good ones out there. Hiring someone because of their race is racism regards of the color. I just want a coach that can win some games even if it means ND has to go dark side. Hell, most of college football hates them, lets finally give them a reason to.
DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
They have to determine what they can realistically be as a football program year in and year out, especially as a non-affiliated football team. Yeah, I know abouth the NBC contract. I would beg the Big Ten to add them and then bite the bullet, go two divisions and have a champsionship game.



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Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
Let's compare season records!

10-3, 5-6, 6-6
9-3, 10-3, 3-9, 7-6, 6-6

Note that ND was 5-7 before Ty got there.



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drjayphd
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.68
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    They have to determine what they can realistically be as a football program year in and year out, especially as a non-affiliated football team. Yeah, I know abouth the NBC contract. I would beg the Big Ten to add them and then bite the bullet, go two divisions and have a champsionship game.


Nuh-uh. They're Big East in everything else, so they should join up and continue the cavalcade of overrated by beating up Louisville and Syracuse. :)





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Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
I do wonder about the economic comparison of ND as an independent vs. ND in the Big Ten.

ND's contract with NBC that runs through 2010 was $9 million per year. They signed a 5 year extension, no word on what that is worth. In 2008, ND got $1.3 million from the BCS, and would have gotten $4.5 million if they had played in a game. They've played in 3 BCS games in the soon to be 11 years it has existed. Those numbers haven't been consistent that whole time, but let's call it $123 million in revenue in the last 11 years, which is $11 million per year.

The Big Ten Network made each of the 11 schools $9.2 million from subscriber revenue in the last year. I imagine they must make a little bit of money from advertising as well. The Big Ten also has a 10 year, $1 billion contract with ESPN (as well as a separate basketball contract with CBS). Between the two, that's $18 million in revenue per school per year. In 2008, the Big Ten got $22.3 million from the BCS. That includes $4.5 million because two Big Ten teams played in BCS bowls. The Big Ten has had two teams in the BCS 8 of the last 10 years. So let's say that's $285 million in BCS money in the past 11 years. That's $2.4 million per school per year. So that's something like $20 million in bowl / TV rights revenue per school per year.

So by those back of the envelope numbers, it seems ND could almost double their revenue by joining the Big Ten. And as for their traditional rivalries, you could put them in a division with Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue (the 3 Big Ten teams they play every year), Ohio State, and Penn State. They'd play those 5, a rotating 3 from the other Big Ten division, and they'd still have 4 non-conference games left to play Navy, Stanford, USC, and what ever 4th college they wanted to put there.

Plus, you'd have a Big Ten championship game that you can sell the rights to as well. Actually, never mind. They'd probably put that on the Big Ten Network as well.

(edited by Mr. Boffo on 30.11.09 1809)
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
    Originally posted by drjayphd
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      They have to determine what they can realistically be as a football program year in and year out, especially as a non-affiliated football team. Yeah, I know abouth the NBC contract. I would beg the Big Ten to add them and then bite the bullet, go two divisions and have a champsionship game.


    Nuh-uh. They're Big East in everything else, so they should join up and continue the cavalcade of overrated by beating up Louisville and Syracuse. :)


So continue beating up Syracuse, wouldn't they have to start? ;)



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Well, its not breaking news since he has been fired since the Pitt or Navy game, this just makes it official. I don't think Weis was an embarrassment. He got them to two BCS bowl games, had a down year after graduating a good chunk of those players and spent the last two years creating a high power offense. Clausen will be a first round pick as well as Brady which if Ty was there wasn't going to happen. His real problem was that he never got those guys motivated to play for big games or after big loses. He has worried too much of the quick strike offense, he never built a defense that could be on the field 65% of the time. Hell, not many defenses can do that at all. People don't like Weis, because he is came off as the fat know it all. Same could be said for Carroll, Meyer, Sabin and Les Miles expect the fat part. But, they win championships either national or conference.

    I do hope they look long and hard for the next coach and he be someone that can relate to students, motivate them and win big games as well as some of these smaller loses. I don't think an NFL head coach is the answer. I also hope ESPN doesn't railroad them like they did with Ty. Ty was the real embarrassment. He fit in Standford where there was zero or little expectations for the program. Its a big fish in a little pond for him and he failed when it was the reverse. I have to hear John Saunders or some other black announcer say why not some black assistant coach or head coach in division II be the head coach. Tell that to Florida, USC, Penn State and every other school that has never hired one even though I am sure there are some good ones out there. Hiring someone because of their race is racism regards of the color. I just want a coach that can win some games even if it means ND has to go dark side. Hell, most of college football hates them, lets finally give them a reason to.




Only reason the Ty situation occurred was the O'Leary controversy. Of course, good old George might be the best coach for the Irish since Holtz.
Problems the Weis had: The defense was never good, the season was allowed to spiral downward the 2nd half of the year the last 2 years after they took a punch, and they could never control the line of scrimmage and the inability to convert 3rd and short in key situations with the running game.
rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.03
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Well, its not breaking news since he has been fired since the Pitt or Navy game, this just makes it official. I don't think Weis was an embarrassment. He got them to two BCS bowl games, had a down year after graduating a good chunk of those players and spent the last two years creating a high power offense. Clausen will be a first round pick as well as Brady which if Ty was there wasn't going to happen. His real problem was that he never got those guys motivated to play for big games or after big loses. He has worried too much of the quick strike offense, he never built a defense that could be on the field 65% of the time. Hell, not many defenses can do that at all. People don't like Weis, because he is came off as the fat know it all. Same could be said for Carroll, Meyer, Sabin and Les Miles expect the fat part. But, they win championships either national or conference.

    I do hope they look long and hard for the next coach and he be someone that can relate to students, motivate them and win big games as well as some of these smaller loses. I don't think an NFL head coach is the answer. I also hope ESPN doesn't railroad them like they did with Ty. Ty was the real embarrassment. He fit in Standford where there was zero or little expectations for the program. Its a big fish in a little pond for him and he failed when it was the reverse. I have to hear John Saunders or some other black announcer say why not some black assistant coach or head coach in division II be the head coach. Tell that to Florida, USC, Penn State and every other school that has never hired one even though I am sure there are some good ones out there. Hiring someone because of their race is racism regards of the color. I just want a coach that can win some games even if it means ND has to go dark side. Hell, most of college football hates them, lets finally give them a reason to.



Wow, in spite of everything that has happened you STILL found a way to lay it all on Ty Willingham. Bravo sir.

Charlie Weis didn't fail because Notre Dame hired a black coach. In fact, there was no pressure from ESPN to hire a coach. Willingham at the time was a deservedly hot prospect for turning around Stanford. Just like Harbaugh is now at Stanford. And he was a classy guy. You make it seem like he walked into the ND press conference wearing a Pimp Coat and a fat gold chain saying "I's BE DA COACH NOW BITCHES!"

Weis failed because he's a horrible head coach. He failed because he is a horrible recruiter. He spent two years winning with the recruits left to him by Willingham then failed to win with his own. And Willigham was the embarrassment?

Notre Dame needs to come to the realization that the days of them being an elite program are over. Honestly they should have kept Weis. It doesn't matter who the coach is, Notre Dame is a small catholic school in the middle of Indiana. That Notre Dame was ever a national power is a miracle. But its over, high school kids aren't going to choose South Bend over Gainesville, or Los Angeles,or Baton Rouge or Columbus.



"I could be wrong, but I doubt it"---Charles Barkley
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.14
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I also hope ESPN doesn't railroad them like they did with Ty. Ty was the real embarrassment. He fit in Standford where there was zero or little expectations for the program. Its a big fish in a little pond for him and he failed when it was the reverse. I have to hear John Saunders or some other black announcer say why not some black assistant coach or head coach in division II be the head coach. Tell that to Florida, USC, Penn State and every other school that has never hired one even though I am sure there are some good ones out there. Hiring someone because of their race is racism regards of the color. I just want a coach that can win some games even if it means ND has to go dark side.


Charlie Weis, who is white, failed because Notre Dame hired a black coach? And does the "dark side" refer to hiring a black coach? I HOPE that's not what you mean, but ... your post is so incoherent I can't quite figure it out.

    Originally posted by rockdotcom
    Notre Dame needs to come to the realization that the days of them being an elite program are over. Honestly they should have kept Weis. It doesn't matter who the coach is, Notre Dame is a small catholic school in the middle of Indiana. That Notre Dame was ever a national power is a miracle. But its over, high school kids aren't going to choose South Bend over Gainesville, or Los Angeles,or Baton Rouge or Columbus.


Assuming you are referring to the city and living conditions - have you ever been to Gainesville? It's a shithole with a university in the middle of it. Go half a mile in any direction from the campus and you might as well be in ... South Bend, Indiana. No, it's worse than that. (By "worse," I mean, "more backwoods and rednecky," which for some people would probably be "better.")

Likewise for Tuscaloosa. Athens, Georgia, doesn't have much going on. Norman, Oklahoma, is a slightly more urbanized area, I think, but that's not saying much. Tallahassee is in a swamp (I know, Florida State isn't so great right now, but they've been very, very good much more recently than Notre Dame has). And I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. I don't think location is the reason Notre Dame is flailing.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 1.12.09 0147)
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.47
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I have to hear John Saunders or some other black announcer say why not some black assistant coach or head coach in division II be the head coach. Tell that to Florida, USC, Penn State and every other school that has never hired one even though I am sure there are some good ones out there.


What, someone was calling for Penn State to steal Eddie Robinson away from Grambling in 1966?



rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.03

    Assuming you are referring to the city and living conditions - have you ever been to Gainesville? It's a shithole with a university in the middle of it. Go half a mile in any direction from the campus and you might as well be in ... South Bend, Indiana. No, it's worse than that. (By "worse," I mean, "more backwoods and rednecky," which for some people would probably be "better.")


No, I wasn't trying to make Gainesville into Austin. I grew up just a few miles south of Gainesville, it is indeed a shithole. Why you making me defend UF, Arent me and you the FSU guys? Anyway while Gainesville is a backwater, UF is a huge campus, really huge stadium, with magnificent facilities. And they have great weather. The girls wear shorts and flip-flops all year. Athens, Tuscaloosa, and Baton Rogue same deal.

My point is, if I'm 18 years old, if it came down to choosing Bumblefuck Indiana or Bumblefuck Fl, Im going where the weather is nicer. Actually that isn't my point, my point is Notre Dame can't recruit anymore. There isn't a compelling reason to go there. And Location is a part of that.



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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Recruiting has changed somewhat, but that's no reason for ND not to be able to get good players. Lots of northern schools find a way. Heck Zook got elite talent to come to Illinois and that place is horrible. Weis got elite talent to come to ND. It was his coaching that sucked, though I will admit it's harder to recruit there than down south.

But even if you say recruiting is harder there, you can still win with what they get. Look at Navy or Georgia Tech, two teams running schemes that help them win with lesser talent. Run a spread, we've seen it work miracles for teams like Utah.

That's basically the route I'd go if I'm hiring the next coach there. Find a spread guy or a an option guy. And hire a DC that's not clueless.
StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Look at Navy or Georgia Tech, two teams running schemes that help them win with lesser talent.


Hey now! I'll grant you that Paul Johnson's schemes account for a large part of his teams' successes, but reigning ACC Player of the Year Jonathan Dwyer and future first round draft pick Demaryius Thomas might want to have a word with you about that last part. =)
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I have to hear John Saunders or some other black announcer say why not some black assistant coach or head coach in division II be the head coach. Tell that to Florida, USC, Penn State and every other school that has never hired one even though I am sure there are some good ones out there. Hiring someone because of their race is racism regards of the color.

If you actually believe that John Saunders and the like would push for a school to hire a coach merely because he's black, then you haven't been paying attention AT ALL.

- StingArmy
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I mean overall talent. West Virginia got Pat White, GT got Dwyer, etc. But in the end most of the really great guys they get weren't as heavily recruited and fell to them. Then they had coaches good enough to bring out their best.

Point is, you can use a gimmick offense to make up for not getting five star players at every position. Heck that's kinda what FSU did when Bobby first got there, running trick plays all the time to make up for talent.
Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58

    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Heck Zook got elite talent to come to Illinois and that place is horrible.


Really, now. No need to be idiotic. The U of I is perfectly fine.



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StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      Heck Zook got elite talent to come to Illinois and that place is horrible.


    Really, now. No need to be idiotic. The U of I is perfectly fine.

Says the guy from Illinois. I think what wmatistic was getting at is that Urbana is no Los Angeles. Or southern Florida. Or [insert name of popular destination and/or place with nice weather].

- StingArmy
DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that his recruiting classes were pretty highly rated.



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wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
They were, but those who follow recruiting have long understood that if you sign with ND your ranking tends to go up. Silly, I know, but enough cases of it happening to suggest there's merit.

And he did sign great offensive players. Just the defensive ones he couldn't pull.
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