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The W - Pro Wrestling - Carlito in the doghouse?
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Aldo D 2112
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.65
The Observer is mentioning that Carlito is being "punished" but didn't mention a reason. The only blurb I got out of it was that he was losing to Khali in 15 second matches.

Anyone care to elaborate?



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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.43
If you watched his segment with Flair on RAW, that should answer your question.

If not, his general laziness and not working hard enough to get better is the main thing (that goes for Shelton too). I haven't read anything bigger than that.



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Since: 12.1.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
Why work hard to get better in today's WWE when it seems there isn't much room for upward mobility based on your wrestling talent, charisma and fan following? As long as you're on RAW you'll be John Cena's bitch, it seems, and as long as you're on SmackDown you better bow down to Batista and The Undertaker. (And if you're on ECW, you're invisible to everyone who isn't connected to an IV drip of wrestling).

Maybe that's an exaggerated way of putting it, but WWE has done jack shit with Carlito recently and even less than jack shit with Shelton, two of their most talented performers in my opinion. After working so hard for a period of time and not getting the recognition of a higher-profile place in the company, there comes a point when you start half-assing it.



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Since: 14.7.03
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
    Originally posted by Aldo D 2112
    The Observer is mentioning that Carlito is being "punished" but didn't mention a reason. The only blurb I got out of it was that he was losing to Khali in 15 second matches.

    Anyone care to elaborate?


Going by that logic, guys like Tommy Dreamer and Eugene must really be in the dog house.
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Flair's promo was largely based on actual reports from house shows on Carlito's performance and attitude. Carlito probably got that same riot act speech off camera that he did on camera, and the losses to Great Khali were part of that.


    As long as you're on RAW you'll be John Cena's bitch, it seems, and as long as you're on SmackDown you better bow down to Batista and The Undertaker.


Those guys need challengers, and those guys need people ready to take over when they can't/won't be champion any longer.


    Maybe that's an exaggerated way of putting it, but WWE has done jack shit with Carlito recently and even less than jack shit with Shelton


Carlio was on WM22, Backlash, Vengeance, Unforgiven, Cyber Sunday, New Years Revolution, and the Royal Rumble. He's feuded with Randy Orton, been paired up with Trish Stratus and now has Torrie Wilson.



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Since: 28.6.04
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
    Originally posted by thecubsfan

      Maybe that's an exaggerated way of putting it, but WWE has done jack shit with Carlito recently and even less than jack shit with Shelton


    Carlio was on WM22, Backlash, Vengeance, Unforgiven, Cyber Sunday, New Years Revolution, and the Royal Rumble. He's feuded with Randy Orton, been paired up with Trish Stratus and now has Torrie Wilson.


And you also don't just stop working hard because you're not getting a bigger push. A glass ceiling may exist, but at what dream job would someone get passed over for a promotion and respond by just half-assing it? Christ, I wouldn't do that at MY job, and it's far from what could be considered a "dream job." I agree that they've bungled Carlito's character. However, with so few spots to be had to begin with, to even get to that point should show some level of commitment on your part. If Carlito feels that they've dropped the ball with him and that he warrants more of a push, he should freaking prove it rather than engage in a silent protest by putting on mediocre matches. And to those who will cite the many hardships of being a professional wrestler and say it's not exactly a "dream job" - if you're a professional wrestler and don't consider a spot on the WWE roster as such, then you don't belong in the business.

Eke, you provided the example of Shelton Benjamin. Shelton, for all the stuff they've done (and haven't done) with him, still works his ass off every time he goes out there. I'll say it again: if you're going to get a spot with the premiere wrestling organization on the planet (something that the vast majority of professional wrestlers who do work their asses off don't even get the chance to sniff at) and half-ass it for any reason, then you don't deserve to be there in the first place. Period.

Carlito's clearly unappreciative of the spot he's given, even if he (and some of us fans) feel he should have a better one. I would say that he can't afford to do that with WWE being the only major game in town, but even if there were viable competition (increasing your viewership slightly through whacky booking which doesn't increase your PPV buys a damn bit doesn't count), he still wouldn't have an excuse in my mind.

Don't get me wrong, I like Carlito. I think he's got it in terms of potential workrate, charisma, and personality. And far be it from me to defend the policies of WWE, but he should be showing that he at least belongs there, not dog it because he isn't getting what he wants.



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Since: 7.1.02
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.40
But given the promo's content, does "working hard" mean watching other people's matches? Do you really get better by just watching? Does not working hard mean playing video games in your spare time? I am not sure I quite buy either. Both look great in the ring and they stay in great shape (which is more than I can say about some people who get pushes and apparently "work hard"). Shelton could work on his promos, but you can't even say that about Carlito.

And shouldn't your success level depend on how well you can get the job done, regardless of how much or how little effort is required from you to get that job done? It would seem that WWE should focus on those who can get the job of entertaining wrestling fans done and focus less on those who appear to be "working hard".



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Since: 2.1.02
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Thing is, Carlito could - and should - be so much more than a midcard act. They're been grooming him as a big name since day one, with two very early title wins and involvement with Cena, Kane, The Big Show, Flair, Edge and Orton. But he is lazy and, unless I'm much mistaken, he doesn't get the kind of crowd reactions that he could do. While he should be firing on all cylinders, working hard to improve his in-ring product and giving it his all every time he wrestles, he's sloppy and uninspired. He looks like he's going through the motions every time he sets foot in the ring. They clearly WANT him to be a big star, but he doesn't seem to care.



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redsoxnation
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.81
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Carlio was on WM22, Backlash, Vengeance, Unforgiven, Cyber Sunday, New Years Revolution, and the Royal Rumble. He's feuded with Randy Orton, been paired up with Trish Stratus and now has Torrie Wilson.






Being associated with Torrie Wilson has been the kiss of death for many a wrestler over the last 8 years.



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Since: 19.8.05
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.79
I have to think that it's hard to find the motivation to work harder, when there is not an opportunity for upward mobility, something many of us probably experience every day at our own jobs.

Carlito is given nothing relevant to do, nor are anyone else in the midcard. That's why they don't care.

It is the DX/Cena show on Raw, with everyone else fighting for the scraps. It looked like they were going to get behind Nitro and have him feud with Cena, via the K-Fed thing, but apparently that didn't work out.

I suppose they have given a decent push to Jeff Hardy, but he seems more like he is being held down too. Isn't he above the IC title at this point? Then again, given his past, I can see why they wouldn't invest too much in him until he proves himself, similar to what they did with Eddie.




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Since: 2.1.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
When did being in the midcard of the biggest wrestling company in the world become a bad thing? Seriously. These guys are in front of screaming audiences night in, night out, they get paid well, they're on TV every week....not being in the main event shouldn't be an excuse to dog it. People still pay money to see them. And if they catch the right break and do well they can make it the top of the card anyway. Cena and Batista didn't become main eventers because it was fated to be. Cena got his Vanilla Ice character over and turned it into something marketable, and Batista managed to snatch a main event slot away from golden boy Orton through sheer charisma.

(edited by oldschoolhero on 13.2.07 0632)


To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.79
Being in the mid card isn't really a bad thing, not when the mid card is properly used. Which it isn't.
Think back to the hey days. In the 80s, the mid card was full of guys like Steamboat, Jake, Beefcake, Muraco, Dibiase, and others. Many of these guys even headlined the B house shows. In the Austin era, you had plenty of guys underneath like Benoit, Eddie, Shamrock, Mero, Owen, Jarrett, & Malenko. All well developed characters that were given interesting storyline that people actually cared about. That's the difference, I think.




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BigDaddyLoco
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
The mid-card has been hit and miss for years now, so lets not get to nostalgic about the good ole days.

Carlito has become boring. His mic work is fine, but he hasn't added anything new to it in months. His matches are paint by numbers and are usually pretty dead for heat.

A guy like Chris Jericho was stuck in plenty of crappy programs. The difference between a Carlito and a Jericho is Jericho would do whatever he could to put his signature on the feud and make it his own. Carlito adds nothing and is just looking to finish the job so he can move on to something else. He should have been passed on the depth charts awhile ago.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.25
I saw Carlito work a house-show three-way match with Shelton and Kenny in December. He was clearly the most active worker in the match, and his crowd responses (before, during, and after the match) were third only to Triple H and Cena. What we see on TV isn't indicative of what I saw in that house show. But what we get on TV is shorter and slower.

The only thing I see him doing wrong on TV is relying too much on springboard moves. Sabu does the same thing, and he was allegedly a Vince favorite before the drug arrest. The major problem with Carlito seems to be in packaging. He's just not as much fun when he plays the full face. He's a natural tweener in the vein of Piper. They've got to let him do more than smile at Torrie and wave to the kids. He's bland now.



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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.51
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    He's just not as much fun when he plays the full face. He's a natural tweener in the vein of Piper. They've got to let him do more than smile at Torrie and wave to the kids. He's bland now.


Totally agree! Piper, don't forget Austin, and now Carlito...but can he pull it off without fan backlash. I think so but they need to play with it a bit. They did his turn well last year after Wrestlemania but after that it's sort of been mediocre. Even with Trish, before she left, the chemistry just didn't feel exactly right for me. Now with Torrie and "disgruntled state of mind" hasn't helped him look like a "WWE Superstar".



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Since: 19.8.05
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.79
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    The mid-card has been hit and miss for years now, so lets not get to nostalgic about the good ole days.

    Carlito has become boring. His mic work is fine, but he hasn't added anything new to it in months. His matches are paint by numbers and are usually pretty dead for heat.

    A guy like Chris Jericho was stuck in plenty of crappy programs. The difference between a Carlito and a Jericho is Jericho would do whatever he could to put his signature on the feud and make it his own. Carlito adds nothing and is just looking to finish the job so he can move on to something else. He should have been passed on the depth charts awhile ago.


Why would we not get too nostalgic about the good ole days? The mid card sucks now, and is really hurting the company. A thriving mid card is essential to an solid, overall product. Think of 1988 and 2000, it wasn't just the main events that were compelling, it was the entire show (for the most part). It makes for great PPVs from top to bottom, not just a bunch of filler to get to the main event. That's 1996 WWF.




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Since: 17.10.04
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.13
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    As long as you're on RAW you'll be John Cena's bitch, it seems, and as long as you're on SmackDown you better bow down to Batista and The Undertaker.


    Originally posted by kentish
    It is the DX/Cena show on Raw, with everyone else fighting for the scraps.


So, what, if anyone is on top in wrestling right now, there's no use in trying to take your game up even a notch? It's not as if Cena has been in the main event for 20 years and has the political connections to stay on top and push others down. It's not impossible for someone to somehow to take Cena's spot--maybe not the someone or the somehow Cena's critics would like, but that's not the point.

And even if there's no hope for someone like Carlito to be on Cena's level, getting to Edge's level is nothing to sneeze at.
kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.60
I guess I actually see Cena a notch below DX (especially you know who) in the pecking order. I agree that getting to Edge's level is fine, you need upper mid card/lower top of the card guys who can go back and forth. Kane is another good example. You could always do the same with Benoit and Jericho too. But I just think these guys are not utilized, and I can understand why they are not motivated, because the writers aren't either. Not saying it's right, but I think that is what is happening. If they are not given anything to work with, I can see how they would lose focus. I blame the company more than the guys.

They have not planned for the future on an alarming level, which is the reason we now have three 40 year olds in the 2 WM title matches. And HBK is only filling in for his best friend (who is what, 36 or so himself?). The same guy who has also main evented nearly every Mania this decade.




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Since: 25.10.05

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.55
I think it's both the company's responsibility and the worker's.

Take the following two as examples:

Nitro & Kennedy

They've taken their game to a totally new level in the last 3 months. Kennedy in particular jumped leaps and bounds in his title match against Batista this month.

Nitro has a fantastic look and gimmick. When I watch RAW or any PPV with a non-fan they are immediately commenting on Nitro and Melina the moment their entrance theme hits.

Face it, the fan reactions ruined Carlito. He was far better as a heel. But the WWE gave the fans what they wanted, and as a result he's paling around with Torrie Wilson instead of opening RAW with the Cabana.

Who would have thought that all these months after the peak of the Carlito/Masters tag-team, Masters would be further along than Carlito.

Maybe they have a plan with the Flair promo. I wouldn't mind seeing Carlos Colon Jr. being the first member of a new set of Horsemen.

Benoit in the Flair spot, a re-packaged Carlito, and WGTT as the tag-team specialists.

CC
kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.57
Kennedy is on the cusp of greatness, and I hope his push does continue. There is much more opportunity to move up on SD!, but that is not saying much, because it has been treated as the B show for nearly 3 years now. I honestly think the SD! belt is only a notch or two above the TNA title at this point. And that is not good.

Nitro and Melina do have a great look and gimmick, as did MNM in general. But it appears Johnny is more or less relegated to the tag ranks again. I don't think he (or she) has the mic skills just yet to be a top guy. Everything else is there, though.

But I have no problem if they are a team, or if TWGTT stay together. If they get behind them and push them. Let's not forget that good tag team divisions can play a huge part in the under card. Just like the "TLC" era a few years ago, and the height of tag wrestling in the late 80s in the WWF and NWA.




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JR probably does need to go on play by play (save him for special interviews maybe?), but certainly not before Lawler. Give him a pound of candy for the little girls and get him off my TV. As far as Mark Henry goes, he does seem to have some charisma.
Related threads: RAW #715 2/5/07 - RAW #714 1/29/07 - RAW #713 1/22/06 - More...
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