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20.4.14 0102
The W - Pro Wrestling - Can Wrestle Mania ever go back to the arenas?
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Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#1 Posted on
I remember a thread a long time ago (before Safeco was announced for the WM XIX venue) speculating as to where WM would be, not only this year, but next year as well for WM XX. The general conclusion was that WM XX was going to Madison Square Garden. While I understand the logic behind that, I think there's a question as to whether WWE could actually do that. This WM will be the third in a row that's held in a large stadium venue. What is most amazing to me is that it looks like Safeco will be legit sold-out for WM XIX. Amazing considering the apparently shitty business WWE has been doing the past twelve months. Safeco's already pulled in a gate in excess of $2 million. Could the Fed *afford* to go back to a smaller arena? Didn't the Fleet Center pull in a $1 million gate for XIV? So, at best, you'd be cutting your gate in half by going to an arena. Maybe they could pull it off for next year, then go back to stadiums after that, but are there other options for XX, if the Fed wants to go to New York? They probably couldn't do Yankee Stadium, even though that would be the greatest thing ever, IMO.

Well, the Fed would have no choice but to go back to the arenas if business gets worse.
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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#2 Posted on
If business continues like it did for 2002, WWE's only shot at drawing a huge stadium gate would be WrestleMania. There's no way they could do a huge stadium gate at any other time during the year (except for outside of the U.S.).

That said, WWE has booked a big MSG show once every even-numbered year since 1994. MSG was the birthplace of WrestleMania and the home of WrestleMania X. Vince is a sucker for recognizing his own nostalgia, so I think WrestkeMania "X10" is a sure thing for MSG.
OMEGA
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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

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#3 Posted on
As much as I like the idea of WrestleMania XX going back to MSG, I'd much rather have WrestleMania continue as a stadium show. When WrestleMania is in an arena, it's like just another show. But the huge stadium gives it an extra special feeling. Of course, if business continues the way it has been, they might be forced to go back to arenas. Remember WrestleMania VII, kids.



You thought watching Thunder was bad? Raw is like watching Thunder in re-runs.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
Remember, they can charge more at MSG, and it seats 20,000+ for wrestling. House show seats are about 5 or 10 dollars more expensive all around, and the bigger the show (and better the seats) the bigger the price differential. For instance, my $75 got me balcony (above floor, above tier) seats for Survivor Series. That same $75 will get you Floor reserved seats for Wrestlemania. I wouldn't be surprised if they charged something closer to $1000 for ringside seats to Wrestlemania (remember, it's $1500 a seat for courtside Knicks tickets), instead of their usual $400, and $200 for floor seats instead of their usual $100. Add in another 20 bucks for decent seats, and 5 bucks for shitty seats, and you've got yourself a lot of money.

Never underestimate the amount of insanely rich people who will spend money on almost anything in this town. You could easily sell every ringside seat at $1000 a pop to people who would just buy it on a whim. Make it into a status thing (something that's not inconcievable, but would have been much more likely 5 years ago) and you could probably sell them at $10,000 a pop.

(edited by MoeGates on 21.1.03 1735)


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Markme123
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Since: 7.1.02
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#5 Posted on
WWE can easily run and sell out WrestleMania stadium/dome shows for the next 2-3 years in my opinion. Fans ALWAYS turn out for WM no matter what. And I don't think the stadiums would turn down WM seeing as it is always a record breaker.



"We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like that time I took the ferry over to Shelbyville; I needed a new heel for my shoe. So, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickle, and in those days, nickles had pictures of bumblebees on them. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we? Oh yeah, the important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white onions, because of the war; the only thing you can get was those big yellow ones..." -Abe Simpson
Mr Heel II
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Since: 25.2.02

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#6 Posted on
I remember them going from Wrestlemania III, in the Pontiac Silverdome, to Wrestlemania IV...in the Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino.

Maybe it was just me, but it just felt like one hell of a letdown at the time.

Here's a fun idea...How about holding Wrestlemania XX at the Georgia Dome. Imagine the irony...



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Gugs
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Since: 9.7.02
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#7 Posted on
The following post expresses the opinions of a raving Jerichoholic. He is biased, opinionated and bitter. You have been warned.

I think WrestleMania XX should be at MSG, if only because it's MSG. The World's Most Famous Arena hosting the 20th Annual Super Bowl of Wrestling. Of course, the main event will probably be Triple H vs. Undertaker in a Career vs. Big, Gold Belt match, but what are you going to do?



The preceding post expressed the opinions of a raving Jerichoholic. He was biased, opinionated and bitter. You were warned.
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by gugs
    I think WrestleMania XX should be at MSG, if only because it's MSG. The World's Most Famous Arena hosting the 20th Annual Super Bowl of Wrestling. Of course, the main event will probably be Triple H vs. Undertaker in a Career vs. Big, Gold Belt match, but what are you going to do?
Do you dislike the WWE SO much that you find yourself COMPELLED to engage in speculation so you can find things to complain about that are THIRTEEN MONTHS AWAY? I mean, honestly.



©CRZ™
Galidor
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Since: 15.7.02

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#9 Posted on
How About repeating WM2.

Having WMXX At the Georgia Dome, MSG, and Somewhere on the west coast.

dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#10 Posted on
Despite I would love to see it at MSG (I love that arena) I expect it to be somewhere else, maybe with a nod to MSG with a special party or whatever..

But regarding the initial question, can they go back to the arenas for WM? I dunno..I think as long as they sell 40,000 tickets in a weekend they don't have to. If attendance would drop to 1,000 people for the tv shows and ppvs, then they might consider it for next year. But I don't see it happen.



Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#11 Posted on
Galidor, do you really think you're getting a million dollar gate for a four-match card? The WM 2 deal would need 3 small arenas priced more fairly than the event would be for if it was in 1. I doubt today the product was ever popular enough in the attitude era even to have done this.

I have to agree that the big arenas work. The biggest WM's and the most memorable are the ones for the large venues. I'll never forget WM 3 because of the visuals it provided. 4 & 5 were not considered homerun shows, but 5 is a personal favorite of mine because Hogan/Savage is one of my favorite matches. 6 again, had the big show feel because of the big building. 7 didn't draw, 8 was a big arena show that somehow managed to be unmemorable---but heck, Piper/Hart was cool. 9 also was a good-looking show simply because it was outdoors. Gave it a unique feel. Of the manias held indoors, 10 is by far my favourite. The opening Bret/Owen classic, the Mr. Perfect heel turn, the unforgettable ladder match, Burt Reynolds in a wrestling ring, Bret toppling Yoko and the entire roster coming out to congradulate him---I love this show. Then came the ass-blood years, 11, which had a football player in the main event and yielded not one good memory or visual---12, which was okay but nothing special till the Iron Man match---13, which was awful execept for one match, Bret was in that one too.

By 14 we're supposed to be in the "good years". This was the time that everyone on this board says wrestling was "still good". I can only remember three matches from this card. Austin/Michaels which was solid but disappointing, Cacuts/Chainsaw V.S. the Outlaws, which kinda sucked, and Rock V.S. Shamrock, which was only kewl because Shamrock not winning the belt was a punishment for him calling D'Lo a monkey. I hate you Shamrock. But again, nothing great. Then at 15, again, the suck was turned way up. Austin/Rock was solid, but I can't remember any other matches off the top of my head (was Goldust in a 4-way for the IC title?). I really wanted my money back after this one. WM 2000 is another show which wasn't that good. The main event, for all the Foley presence and elimination ramifications was not a great match. The ladder match from earlier was entertaining, and less so was the Eurocontinetal title match with Angle/Benoit/Jericho (could you imagine how THAT triple threat would be anticipated today?). But not a great show.

The return to big arenas helped. In 2001 they had a ton of a good matches. Undertaker wrestled the last good match of his career against Triple H. There was another TLC tag match. Kurt Angle and Benoit wrestled a clinic which would be the foundation for the work we're all drooling over today. Vince and Shane had a memorable match in which Shawn did a van-terminator and Linda nut-shotted VKM. The gimmick battle royal gave us the last ever match commentated by Bobby Heenan that we'll probably ever see. And Austin/Rock blew away their previous 'Mania encounter, and for once, had a match that lived up to Wrestlemania hype. X-8, which I attended, was not all that great but Hogan and Rock is everything you want in a WM match, and made the show.

Keep it in the big buildings. It just looks better.





"If there are no monkeys in the House of Commons, how come you never see a banana outside of it? I've been to Ottawa dozens of times, and I've never seen a banana anywhere near the Parliament buildings. Clearly, that's because there are monkeys inside."
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by CRZ

      Originally posted by gugs
      I think WrestleMania XX should be at MSG, if only because it's MSG. The World's Most Famous Arena hosting the 20th Annual Super Bowl of Wrestling. Of course, the main event will probably be Triple H vs. Undertaker in a Career vs. Big, Gold Belt match, but what are you going to do?
    Do you dislike the WWE SO much that you find yourself COMPELLED to engage in speculation so you can find things to complain about that are THIRTEEN MONTHS AWAY? I mean, honestly.


You know what though, man? I'd be lying if I said after reading the post I didn't get one of *those* feelings in my stomach.

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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#13 Posted on
    Originally posted by Galidor
    How About repeating WM2.

    Having WMXX At the Georgia Dome, MSG, and Somewhere on the west coast.


My educated guess is that this worked for WM2 because in 1986 there wasn't prevalent PPV availablity, so the added draw of watching the rest of the card on closed circuit actually WAS an added draw. Today's crowds probably wouldn't see it that way.

(edited by CRZ on 22.1.03 0036)



©CRZ™
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.74
Actually, having 2 shows could work. 2 Wrestlemanias!

We could have the RAW and SMACKDOWN teams on seperate coasts. One at MSG and one in either Seattle or California, or possibly Texas. Have the card switch between the shows for the PPV audience and during the matches, have in house promos just for the audience, like they are doing now for the live audience during commercial breaks. It could be a 4 hour extravganza!

Imagine the DVD, where you can view it as seperate shows or as one very long 5 hour plus show with all the in house promos before each match.

They would make a fortune!



Even You Can Prevent Triple H

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dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#15 Posted on
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Actually, having 2 shows could work. 2 Wrestlemanias!

    We could have the RAW and SMACKDOWN teams on seperate coasts. One at MSG and one in either Seattle or California, or possibly Texas. Have the card switch between the shows for the PPV audience and during the matches, have in house promos just for the audience, like they are doing now for the live audience during commercial breaks. It could be a 4 hour extravganza!

    Imagine the DVD, where you can view it as seperate shows or as one very long 5 hour plus show with all the in house promos before each match.

    They would make a fortune!



And think of the tv footage of all the riots!
As CRZ said today's crowd wouldn't buy into it. I know I would be very very pissed if I would have to watch half of the show on a screen airing from an arena far far away.
They better have really cheap beer or lots of great matches at both shows.


(edited by dMp on 22.1.03 1313)


Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 4 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.74
But you wouldn't be watching half a show really. You would be watching that brands Wrestlemania. Each show would be seperate from each other, but if you wanted to, you could look up and see on screens what the other show was doing.

To pull this off, they'd need Rock and Austin back, defineately, as to have one on each show probably headlining against either Angle or Lesner for Smackdown or I guess Helmsley or Steiner for Raw since there are no other real top guys right now. Each show can have thier workrate matches for the wrestling fans with an Eddie/Edge/Benoit/Rey Mysterio Jr/Chavo type match for Smackdown and Jericho/Michaels/Christian/Jeff Hardy type match for Raw. Throw in a Tag match or 2, a womens match for Raw and a Bra and Panties match for Smackdown, and a two or three singles matches. Give each a nostalgia match with Hogan in a match with a McMahon for Smackdown and Ric Flair in a match against(Oh, I don't know...) Bischoff or Shane.

You can make a good 9 or 10 match PPV for each brand using their respective talent rosters, and send 2 large crouds home happy.



Even You Can Prevent Triple H

...it's a sign from God!
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Actually, having 2 shows could work. 2 Wrestlemanias!


That was actually something I thought about. But I was thinking two WM's at the same arena...Saturday and Sunday night both at MSG (or wherever). Selling out the same arena two nights in a row has been done many times before, and I can't see why it couldn't happen in this situation (even with WM ticket prices). Your problem would be getting people to buy it on PPV. How about charging $35 for either one of the two shows, or $50 for both (or something like that)?

Any comments on my Yankee Stadium suggestion? In *general,* the weather would be cooperative (the Yankees' home opener would be only a week or so after that). But can you ever go back to an outdoor venue?
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#18 Posted on

    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Galidor
      How About repeating WM2.

      Having WMXX At the Georgia Dome, MSG, and Somewhere on the west coast.


    My educated guess is that this worked for WM2 because in 1986 there wasn't prevalent PPV availablity, so the added draw of watching the rest of the card on closed circuit actually WAS an added draw. Today's crowds probably wouldn't see it that way.

    (edited by CRZ on 22.1.03 0036)






Also, the Atlanta market is in the same condition now as Texas was in the early-mid 90's: Dead. They need to stay away from there desperately. Now, if you say someplace in the Carolina's, thats do-able.
And remember this about Mania 2: Its the red-headed retarded stepbrother of the early Mania's. A key reason Vince went for 3 markets is because Crockett was doing 2 markets at Starrcade '85, thus Vince needed to top that. Plus, closed-circuit was by far a larger source of revenue in '86 than ppv. I'd actually bet money more people saw Mania III on closed circuit than on PPV as well.



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Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#19 Posted on
Here's the other thing to think about: Part of the plans for New York City's Olympic bid is a 60,000+ retractable roof stadium on the West Side of Manhattan, mere blocks from MSG,

The stadium is probably going to get built even if NYC doesn't win the Olympics since the Jets want out of Giants Stadium in the worst way. The lease is up after the 2007 season, so the stadium presumably would be ready for the fall of 2008.

When is Wrestlemania's silver anniversary? No. 25? Even bigger than No. 20. Spring 2009.

If I'm the WWF, I save the New York City return for then.

(edited by Texas Kelly on 22.1.03 1225)


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Doc_whiskey
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Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

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#20 Posted on
I dont think 2 wrestlemanias would work if the rosters stay the way they are now. Even if HHH discovers his work rate, and the wrestlers that the fans want to see on top are on top at that point, more people would probably want to see the smackdown show, and the raw show may do poorly. Plus, how would you handle the PPV broadcast, Im sure Vince would want to charge 20-30 bucks a piece for both shows, some people may be hesitant to buy both, and thus Vince would actually lose money. Also, for people that already know they cant afford to go, having to put aside two days for PPVs on a weekend may be difficult, especially with things like midterms, spring break, and general college and job related things getting in the way.



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