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20.9.14 0100
The W - Pro Wrestling - Can the "IWC" affect Taboo Tuesday
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PostModernBoy
Cotechino








Since: 5.2.03

Since last post: 3309 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.30
The so-called "freepers" who hang out at freerepublic.com try to game on-line political polls, although they are getting their asses kicked right now in trying to say that Bush has won any debates. Which leads me to wonder. . . .

Assume that the voting is not rigged (and I don't think it will be, but don't turn this into a thread on how rigged you think the vote will be). If the so-called "internet wrestling community" decided to mount a campaign to throw its weight around by voting in certain ways that most wrestling fans wouldn't (Steven Richards for IC contender, for example), then:

1) Could on-line wrestling fans actually agree on which options to back or would you have different campaigns (pro-Regal, pro-Rhyno, pro-Richards) cancelling each other out?

2) Would any such effort make a difference? If the kind of people who populate this board got behind the same voting choices, would it counterbalance the choices of the masses?
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KathyNumbers
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Since: 15.6.02
From: Philadelphia, PA

Since last post: 601 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
Funny that the first person I thought of for this was the same guy you mentioned - Stevie Richards. It was a nice job he did as lumberjack last week on Jericho and I'd love to see him get a chance against him at the PPV - not acting like an idiot, though. We do have some standards here. LOL

I don't know if you could get enough people together at first to make a difference, but a concerted enough effort was made to say, push Stevie, and people would advertise it on other boards, it just may affect the voting (if legit).

It would have to be picked up on by one of the newsboards though, like Torch, WO, 1Wrest - places like that - to get any kind of advertising to get a groundswell going.

I remember one time they had a poll on WWE.com saying something like "Would you like to see Stephanie return to WWF TV?" and they mentioned that the "No"'s were winning, and people went "banana" after that, stuffing the box with No votes. I think it ended up that even though there was a concerted effort not to bring her back, they had her win by a very slight margin.

They didn't bring her back right away after that though.

Kathy
madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.75
This is an interesting topic. I do think the IWC could represent a voting bloc that could influence the IC challenger race, but only if WWE doesn't put its thumb on the scale. I think that's their plan.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00


    1) Could on-line wrestling fans actually agree on which options to back or would you have different campaigns (pro-Regal, pro-Rhyno, pro-Richards) cancelling each other out?



I don't think there's one candidate you'd be able to get even a majority (and you'd probably need more than that) of 'net fans to agree definitely deserves to be the IC Contender; there's too much WWE-induced parity and lack of distinctive appeal between the challengers. You could make a case for several of them and be equally right.

However, I think you could pull of a "let's all vote for Rosey to screw with them!" effort, if you had the right people getting the word out and being persuasive enough that it's a worthwhile gag. It's probably even possible for a someone who's actually worthy, but I think the unifying reason would still have to be "screw with WWE."

The problem is, if you got that sort of widespread 'net stumping for a candidate, WWE's just going to as easily see it as the rest of us, and may just opt to counteract or discredit those votes in someway.


    2) Would any such effort make a difference? If the kind of people who populate this board got behind the same voting choices, would it counterbalance the choices of the masses?


This is kinda a two stage question; we have to assume any votes matter before assuming voting groups matter, and I don't think we'll ever be assured of that.

Assuming they're not going in planning to ignore the votes and they wouldn't change strategies in the face of a 'net push for someone, I still think it'd take a massive (and unprecedented) percentage of 'smart' to affect a result, based on the long held belief that 'smart' fans are a small fraction of all fans.

It'd kinda be interesting if there was a large push behind someone, just to see if that belief is still true.



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
LionJeetSingh
Chourico








Since: 3.3.03

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.39
    Originally posted by thecubsfan


      1) Could on-line wrestling fans actually agree on which options to back or would you have different campaigns (pro-Regal, pro-Rhyno, pro-Richards) cancelling each other out?



    I don't think there's one candidate you'd be able to get even a majority (and you'd probably need more than that) of 'net fans to agree definitely deserves to be the IC Contender; there's too much WWE-induced parity and lack of distinctive appeal between the challengers. You could make a case for several of them and be equally right.

    However, I think you could pull of a "let's all vote for Rosey to screw with them!" effort, if you had the right people getting the word out and being persuasive enough that it's a worthwhile gag. It's probably even possible for a someone who's actually worthy, but I think the unifying reason would still have to be "screw with WWE."

    The problem is, if you got that sort of widespread 'net stumping for a candidate, WWE's just going to as easily see it as the rest of us, and may just opt to counteract or discredit those votes in someway.


      2) Would any such effort make a difference? If the kind of people who populate this board got behind the same voting choices, would it counterbalance the choices of the masses?


    This is kinda a two stage question; we have to assume any votes matter before assuming voting groups matter, and I don't think we'll ever be assured of that.

    Assuming they're not going in planning to ignore the votes and they wouldn't change strategies in the face of a 'net push for someone, I still think it'd take a massive (and unprecedented) percentage of 'smart' to affect a result, based on the long held belief that 'smart' fans are a small fraction of all fans.

    It'd kinda be interesting if there was a large push behind someone, just to see if that belief is still true.


Something similar to this actually happened on a wwf(e).com poll a few years back. It asked fans to vote for the wrestler of the year expecting the obvious choices like Rock, Austin, Taker, etc would be chosen. During the voting, a bunch of people decided to screw with them by voting for Steve Blackman. Blackman ended up winning and the poll that was once on the splash page ended up being buried further into the site. However, an article was still written on Blackman's unexpected victory.



VOTE FOR ROSEY!



Vut Joo Talkin?
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
Didn't Ric Flair win Time Magazine's online "Man of the Year" poll a few years ago? I seem to recall a big to-do over going and voting for Flair.

It would actually be relatively easy to rig the vote; all it would take is a couple computer nerds to write a short program that would vote again and again as long as you left a browser open online. Purdue used it in the ESPN "Game-changing performance" last week; going into the last day of voting they were at 10% of the vote, but ending up winning something like 38% to 37% with these computer programs. A couple dozen people running these programs regularly could easily rig the voting one way.
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
Interesting people keep mentioning Rosey; I would campaign long and hard for The Hurricane.

The seeds of a heel turn have been planted for the past few weeks, and a good fifteen minutes with Jericho could be the spark that Helms needs to get some consideration as a strong midcard heel. And, ironically enough, his heel tease began a simple postmatch tantrum, in the same vein as the one that turned Chris Jericho onto his path to superstardom in late 1997.

Instead of trying to make this into a farce, if you're going to try and get the IWC to rig the voting, why not use the chance to try and force an underused guy into a spot where he can show a thing or two?



Screw Ricky
PostModernBoy
Cotechino








Since: 5.2.03

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.30
I think that the IC contender vote is the most susceptible to gaming the system because there are so many different choices; the possible range of votes between the winner and middle-of-the-pack is not as high.

I picked Steven Richards as an example not because he was my personal choice (he isn't), but because he is a wrestler that internet fans seem to appreciate more than the WWE.

I have read that the choices are Rhyno, Shelton Benjamin, Tajiri,Steven Richards, Rodney Mack, Val Venis, William Regal, Christian, Batista, Tyson Tomko, Maven, Chuck Palumbo, Sylvain Grenier, Rob Conway, Rosey and even Jonathan Coachman.

Given what I read on the boards, I suspect that the wrestlers most likely to get enough support for a campaign are Rhyno, Shelton Benjamin, Tajiri, Steven Richards, William Regal, Christian, Batista, and Rosey.

I would toss out Christian and Batista as candidates, since they are already getting reasonable pushes and could win legit. Rhyno (given his tag taem efforts and gore of Jericho in the main event last week) and Benjamin (given his relatively high profile anti-Evolution activities since coming back from injury) may also fall under this category.

That narrows it down to Steven Richards, William Regal, Tajiri, and Rosey. Rosey seems to be a possible favorite of people who just want to screw with the WWE, although that option can also be defended as having a rub for the Hurricane (who is apparently not on the list), since jealousy over being picked will help lead to the Rosey vs. Hurri-lax feud. Richards and, to a lesser extent, Tajiri appeal to ECW mutants. And Regal is just cool.

Richards, however, is probably the hardest to push for because he has been relegated to Heat so much that the average mark won't vote for him. In terms of the number of votes you would need to make up, I rank the final four as 1) Tajiri 2) Regal 3) Rosey 4) Richards.

From a practical standpoint, I think that Tajiri is the best candidate. He is probably the easiest to elevate in the vote count. I don't think any workrate freak can oppose him. He appeals to fans who complain about 'roided monsters and big men.



Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 418 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
Does anyone on the board have the technical expertise to do what Hokienautic suggests? Obviously, they're not giving us much time, what with the voting starting next Monday night, and the PPV being next Tuesday. I've got a DSL connection, I'd be willing to try it. I just don't know enough to know how to do it.



NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 271 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.36
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    Didn't Ric Flair win Time Magazine's online "Man of the Year" poll a few years ago? I seem to recall a big to-do over going and voting for Flair.

    It would actually be relatively easy to rig the vote; all it would take is a couple computer nerds to write a short program that would vote again and again as long as you left a browser open online. Purdue used it in the ESPN "Game-changing performance" last week; going into the last day of voting they were at 10% of the vote, but ending up winning something like 38% to 37% with these computer programs. A couple dozen people running these programs regularly could easily rig the voting one way.


It was Mick Foley who won the Time poll.



DVDs; Blog
PerthHeat
Mettwurst








Since: 16.8.04
From: Perth Australia

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by madiq
    This is an interesting topic. I do think the IWC could represent a voting bloc that could influence the IC challenger race, but only if WWE doesn't put its thumb on the scale. I think that's their plan.


Of course they would..if it was legit..I am sorry but I dont think it is..

The IWC has a lot of clever people out there and I am sure if someone asks CRZ nicely he could even give a few answers to a few questions raised. The issue is how do you choose and who makes the choice? With the large group on option there will be room for manipulation in that the % wouldnt need to be high. e.g 14% could win a slot.

Then again the cynic inside me suggests a face cant face a face and I cant see Jericho losing it just yet.. I get this funny feeling a swerve is going to happen and people will be dissapointed with the result. So much so it will be on every IWC board for days ..until the next RAW program where EVERYONE will tune in..maybe Coach to fight?

But my gut feeling is the WWE already know who is facing who



if you cant stand the heat...buy icecream
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1956 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    It was Mick Foley who won the Time poll.


I may be thinking of a different year but I know Ric won the online contest one year.

(edited by Jackson on 12.10.04 0153)


tomk
Goetta








Since: 30.7.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.95
Flair may have won a Most Sexiest People poll or somesuch.

I think if you got enough editorials up on Torch, LOP and other sites about how great Funk vs. Flair "I quit" match was and how they should recreate that with Randy Orton. You might be able to sway votes toward a submissions match.

Of the three choicies there one gets the impression that the WWE doesn't expect the submissions match to get any votes and they aren't "lobbying" (in their booking) toward anything. A little smartly layed out on line lobbying could push that one.



dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    Does anyone on the board have the technical expertise to do what Hokienautic suggests? Obviously, they're not giving us much time, what with the voting starting next Monday night, and the PPV being next Tuesday. I've got a DSL connection, I'd be willing to try it. I just don't know enough to know how to do it.


That would be the stupidest thing ever because then you make sure your votes would not be counted..You know..repeating IP addresses and such being eliminated.
If you want to do this you should do it the hard way and just find enough people to vote imo.




*sigh* Why bother?
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 9 hours
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
    Originally posted by dMp

    That would be the stupidest thing ever because then you make sure your votes would not be counted..You know..repeating IP addresses and such being eliminated.
    If you want to do this you should do it the hard way and just find enough people to vote imo.



Not so. I'm not sure of all the details, but from what I've been told it's relatively easy to mask IPs so the votes aren't recognizable as coming from the same address. If ESPN.com couldn't eliminate duplicate votes, I doubt WWE.com can do any better. You'd be amazed how easy it is to manipulate these things.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 8 hours
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
FWIW, according to Meltzer, they'll be requring you to register before you can vote, which would at least make it more work for anyone who to script a voting program. (If they added one of those 'type the words in this graphic' deals, it'd surely be more work than the effort required.) Anyway, this is sorta off the original topic of a large group of smart voters being able to influnce the voting.

I think, since there's only going to be under 24 hour voting period (end of RAW/TT), there's a better chance of pulling something off in one direction; the shorter the time period, the less casual fans who are going to find time/interest to go to WWE.com and vote.



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.69
I'm pretty sure I'll be wasting my vote on Coach. It'd be a fun match and we get to see Jericho kick his ass.

/mark



Cerebus: RIP 1977-2004.

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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.55
A few points on what people have said:

- Many years ago (6 maybe?), I was one of many people that got an email suggesting that on a specific day to go to mtv.com and vote for a New Kids on the Block video to be played on TRL. Well, it was the #2 video the next day. I'm not sure how many people received that email, or even how many people voted for TRL videos back then, but if that is possible, maybe stuffing the ballots over a similar time period for Taboo Tuesday is possible.

- My undergrad school was full of people that thought making online voting scripts was the greatest thing ever. Our mascot got booted from the CapitalOne favorite mascot contest a few years ago because he was obliterating the competition via some scripts. It's pretty easy to detect this sort of thing, but some people just don't choose to do so.

- Since they are making people register before they can vote, this would make script-writing just entirely too tedious to be worth it. If they added one of those graphical word recognition thingies, I *believe* this actually makes scripting impossible as there are no machines or programs that can recognize skewed graphical representations of text.

- I'm not really sure, but would it be legal for WWE to rig the voting? I mean, they're selling their product (the PPV) by advertising that you get to have a say in what they are going to show. If it turns out that they DON'T let you have a say, isn't there some sort of false advertising law that could come into effect? Maybe I should get off my lazy law student butt and figure it out myself.

- StingArmy
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
My days of rigging polls are long behind me.



Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
tomk
Goetta








Since: 30.7.02

Since last post: 2648 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.95
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    I'm pretty sure I'll be wasting my vote on Coach. It'd be a fun match and we get to see Jericho kick his ass.

    /mark


Did you see the last time Coach got a PPV match. He spent the entire match dominating Tajiri with leg locks.


Coach happens to betaller rthan a good chunk of the roster. Taller than Jericho. Shouldn't be in the ring with him.


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