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The W - Football - Bye Bye Ty (Page 2)
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rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
    Originally posted by A Fan
    ND prides itself that they have a high graduating percentage and the students are succesful in jobs that don't involve sports.


If Notre Dame gave a shit about graduating Players Bob Davie would still be coach. Shit, Gerry FAUST would probably still be coach. But they dont, they care about winning games, because winning games keeps them on NBC.

Also, Im pretty sure Notre Dame has never been considered a top-flight academic school, no more than Miami is. So I dont think kids are taking the "easy way" by going to other schools.



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ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
Actually, Notre Dame IS regarded as a top-flight academic school. For example, U.S. News and World Report ranks Notre Dame 18th in the nation (tied with Vanderbilt)
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php

Notre Dame also has a reputation of having tougher standards on its athletes than most schools. The thing is, they want those standards AND National Championships! It's an admirable goal, but I'm not sure it is realistic anymore.



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JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.74
    Originally posted by A Fan
    ND prides itself that they have a high graduating percentage and the students are succesful in jobs that don't involve sports.


And other universities don't? You clearly see the college football world through blue-and-gold-colored glasses, so let me just point out a couple of FACTS as relates to scheduling and conference-strength.

OPPONENTS RANKED IN TOP 25 (at day of game)
Florida State - 2
USC - 2
Oklahoma - 3
Michigan - 3 (plus normally-ranked OSU was NOT ranked)
Auburn - 4 (all top-15)
Tennessee - 4 (all top-10)
Miami - 4
Notre Dame - 4
Texas - 5

So, really ND didn't play a markedly tougher schedule than anyone else.

TEAMS IN BCS TOP 25
ACC - 4
SEC - 5
Big XII - 5
Big Ten - 4
ND opponents - 3

Again, the only two true high-quality rivals USC schedules every year are USC and Michigan, and USC's only bouncing back recently from a down-period. Stanford, BC, Michigan State, Pitt, and Purdue are middle-of-the-pack teams capable of a good year at a given time, and Navy is almost always horrid, so REALLY Notre Dame isn't playing a schedule that different from any team in an actual conference. ND played Tennessee and Washington? Good for them, but no more impressive than USC playing Auburn and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma playing Oregon.



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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
trying to help flesh out the "did ND have a hard schedule?" discussion with more numbers. I don't care much either way, but I figure it's more helpful than debating the quality team by team.

Jeff Sagrin's SOS of schedule rankings
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt04.htm (look at SCHEDL)


1 Oregon State
2 Texas A&M
3 North Carolina
4 Arizona State
5 Arizona
6 Washington
7 Stanford
8 Baylor
9 BYU
10 USC
11 Texas Tech
12 Oklahoma State
13 Cal
14 Texas
15 Kansas
16 Washington State
17 Miami (FL)
18 Oregon
19 Notre Dame
20 Arkansas


Sagrin has ASU, USC, Cal and Oregon State in it's top 20, making it an exceedingly difficult confrence schedule and causing a lot of Pac 10 teams to show up high.

Jerry Palm's CollegeBCS SOS of schedule numbers
http://www.collegebcs.com/cy/psr.html + some Excel sorting.

1 Texas A&M
2 Oregon St
3 Arizona St
4 Arizona
5 Baylor
6 Notre Dame
7 Oklahoma St
8 North Carolina
9 Kansas
10 Texas Tech
11 Texas
12 Stanford
13 Arkansas
14 BYU
15 Miami-Florida
16 Washington
17 La Tech
18 Iowa
19 Oklahoma
20 Southern Cal

(worst SOS? NIU! GOOOOOO HUSKIES - way to schedule a bowl! maybe)

There's no 'offical' strengh of schedule this year, because it's out of the BCS as a seperate element. I believe Palm uses the method they used to use, but not totally sure.



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messenoir
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Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.84
I'm not much of a fan of Notre Dame, but Ty I always liked. Something I noticed about him that I'm not sure if other people saw:

When interviewed, most coaches and players give pat "we need to play better and score more points" type of responses. Ty actually would spend the time going in debth and give real interviews that, to me at least, showed he really cared about the listeners out there.



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rockstar
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Since: 2.1.02
From: East TN

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.24
    Originally posted by A Fan
    Also, the ACC is getting better, but its nowhere near being the SEC or Big Ten where almost every game is a struggle. ACC has some real losers like Duke, Maryland and I'm not totally sold on NC ST or Virginia.


BAH-loney.

Bottoms of the conference barrels (teams two or more games below .500):

SEC
Ol' Miss (4-7, 3-5)
Miss St. (3-8, 2-6)
Kentucky (2-9, 1-7)
Vandy (2-9, 1-7)

ACC
Wake Forest (4-7, 1-7)
Duke (2-9, 1-7)

Big 10
PSU (4-7, 2-6)
Ill. (3-8, 1-7)
Ind (3-8, 1-7)

Also, using Sagarin's ratings (as well Howell and Wilson's ratings, but they're probably Liberals or something) the ACC outranks both the SEC and the Big 10.

CONFERENCE---CENTRAL MEAN---SIMPLE AVERAGE---TEAMS

1 PAC-10 -- (A) = 79.07 ---- 79.95 (1) --- 10
2 BIG 12 -- (A) = 78.04 ---- 79.01 (2) --- 12
3 ACC ----- (A) = 77.72 ---- 77.77 (3) --- 11
4 SEC ----- (A) = 75.07 ---- 75.00 (4) --- 12
5 I-AIND -- (A) = 74.87 ---- 74.87 (5) --- 2
6 BIG TEN - (A) = 73.53 ---- 73.16 (6) --- 11





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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 36 min.
Last activity: 25 min.
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by A Fan
    Gee, one year FSU is not the ACC champ, I'm shocked.


VA was co-champ in 1995


    ACC has some real losers like Duke, Maryland and I'm not totally sold on NC ST or Virginia.


It's amazing how you tried to spell Wake Forest and got Maryland from that

Maryland's record under the Fridge
2004-5: 5-6, 3-5
2003-4: 10-3 including a Gator Bowl win over WV which they creamed earlier in the year
2002-3: 11-3 including a Peach Bowl win over TN 30-3
2001-2: 10-2 including a creaming from Florida in the Orange bowl 23-56

36-14, 2-1 in bowls

VA the last four years
2004-5: 8-3, 5-3 and a bowl game coming up
2003-4: 8-5 including a Tire bowl win against Pitt
2002-3: 9-5 including a Tire bowl win against WV
2001-2: 5-7

30-20, 2-0 in bowls with one coming up

NCSU the last four years
2004-5: 5-6, 3-5
2003-4: 8-5 including a Tangerine bowl win over Kansas
2002-3: 11-3 including a creaming of ND in the Gator Bowl 28-6
2001-2: 7-5 including a loss to Pitt in the Tangerine bowl

31-19, 2-1 in bowls

ND the last four years
2004-5: 6-5 and a bowl game coming up
2003-4: 5-7
2002-3: 10-3 including a loss to NCSU in the Gator Bowl 6-28
2001-2: 5-6

26-21, 0-1 in bowls with one coming up


    I am not going to say Notre Dame doesn't view itself high on the ladder of college football. Yet, they have the most tradition and minus the 1993 screw job they have won a championship or championships in every decade.



They did not win one in the '50s, but Maryland did in '53. ND got one in 1949 and the next in 1966.


(edited by Zeruel on 1.12.04 2118)



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PsychoticMidget
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Since: 2.12.04
From: Detroit, MI

Since last post: 3181 days
Last activity: 3181 days
#28 Posted on
Ahhhhhh, college football conference pride. With the falling of Notre Dame under the radar and the resurgance of USC, it seems a lot of college football fans are forgetting their history and tradition. Yes, Florida State and Miami are big right now. Yes, Maryland had a kinda-sorta comeback but they, like most of the ACC, are in that camp of average teams. Conferences are riddled with them.

Now, there's no way to compare two conferences to each other (besides Conference USA and the MAC or something). Each one usually has a different style of play that most teams go by, for example the Big 10 is a huge groundpounding conference. The Pac-10 is naturally fond of West Coasting. Interconference play is usually finding which team can play that conference's style best, and the bowl games have those conference styles face off. There really isn't a clear winner between run games or pass games.

Now, as for Notre Dame firing Willingham, they're obviously pissed at their current circumstances and smell a chance to snatch up Urban Meyer. He may spark a revival for them, and yes they are (for history and tradition) the top of the college football echelon. With the help of http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/database/ , we can see which teams should be the "big names" based on history and championships.

Notre Dame
Michigan
Oklahoma
Ohio State
USC
Alabama
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
Penn State
Nebraska

But now which of those teams gets favorable media treatment? Which of those teams have national fan respect? The bottom half of that list have slipped and that is because their recent efforts haven't been noteworthy. Notre Dame sees themselves as falling into a Pittsburgh/Penn State-like lethargy, and look to USC's recent resurgance and Urban Meyer's amazing job at Utah as ways back to what they always have been. People talk about Miami now because of the 80s, nobody mentions what Pittsburgh was able to do in the start of the 20th century. Notre Dame hasnt had a big splash recently and so Willingham was just a victim of circumstances.

(edited by PsychoticMidget on 2.12.04 0100)

(edited by PsychoticMidget on 2.12.04 0101)
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2416 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
What happens if Notre Dame doesn't get Urban Meyer?

Meyer expected to take Florida Job (sports.espn.go.com)

Where does Notre Dame go now? I guess they had the confidence (arrogance?) that anybody would choose ND over every other school out there. If Meyer goes to Florida, then they're going to have another disaster, I think. Ty wasn't their first choice originally, and the next guy isn't going to be their first choice. They better get a big name to appease the boosters, otherwise this guy'll be gone in 3 years, too.
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.52
Its a huge blow, because Woody explained that they were thinking Meyer would stay another season, but once Florida got in the mix, they had to let Ty go. Now that Ty is gone, I say ND should just eat it and try to hire Ty back or wait till the smoke clears after the bowl games and NFL season and see what they can do. It does make Notre Dame look like idiots, my problem is that they should have waited on letting Ty go til after the bowl game which would have saved everyone this embarrassment.



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tarnish
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Since: 13.2.02
From: Back in the Heart of Hali

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03

I couldn't believe the number of articles (at espn.com, anyway) about how the firing itself was an embarassment and an indication of Notre Dame's general fall from grace.

It's certainly worse now if Meyer does indeed go to Florida.

But there's absolutely no way in hell they re-hire Willingham. I'm not sure whether organizations as large as Notre Dame can successfully reverse a move like that, but I do know they almost never try.




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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

    I say ND should just eat it and try to hire Ty back


I'm thinking Ty's not going back in a billion years.



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Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
It was just reported (Mike and the Mad Dog on 660 AM, I believe) that Meyer wanted ND to lower standards so he could recruit "his guys". Notre Dame refused, so he's using the Florida job as a bargaining chip.

Take it with a heap of salt, but this keeps getting more and more interesting.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52
    Originally posted by Roy.
    It was just reported (Mike and the Mad Dog on 660 AM, I believe) that Meyer wanted ND to lower standards so he could recruit "his guys". Notre Dame refused, so he's using the Florida job as a bargaining chip.

    Take it with a heap of salt, but this keeps getting more and more interesting.






Meyer is smart. He realizes he sets himself up to fail at ND unless they allow him a few players like Holtz had with Rice and Zorich who wouldn't get in with the usual standards, but ended up doing well on the field and in the classroom. If Meyer goes to Florida, which is very probable at this point, ND has screwed itself royally. They fired Ty for Urban, get heat for breaking the 5 year tradition they had established, and then can't seal the deal on a coach who had an out clause for Notre Dame. And, when the history of the Collapse of Notre Dame is written, and it will be, it can all be traced back to Mike Miller screwing it up for everyone in the mid 90's and Notre Dame never allowing the football coaches a chance to relax the standards due to Miller.



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Since: 3.1.02

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.52
So, is Paul Horning right, is ND's academics preventing them from getting the athletes they need? Today is a low day as an ND fan. I agree with firing Ty, if you watched the games he coached, he was out of his element in most of those games. I just wish ND would have given him another year though and let the Meyer darling go to Florida which is happening anyway. Low day for me.



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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
No. It's a cop out. I *hate* that gets tossed around so much for why schools like Notre Dame (and Vandy, or Stanford, or wherever) can't compete. Northwestern, I believe, won a Big Ten title without lowering their admission standards. Stanford had a strong football program under Willingham without lowerin g their admission standards.

Notre Dame just isn't the first, second and third choice for today's top high school athlete anymore. Nor is it the prime destination for the Latest Big Thing in coaching, as shown by the fact that Meyer is the latest big name to turn down Notre Dame for other opportunities.

The idea that Notre Dame is The University of College Football in America (tm, Kornheiser) is gone. And as many have written over the past few days, it's Just Another School. The sooner everyone realizes that, the better (and saner) the students, faculty, boosters, and alumni will be.



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Since: 22.4.02
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"...others say my mom sucked 3,000 dicks." (Nag)


Northwestern, I believe, won a Big Ten title without lowering their admission standards.

Wadn't that under Gary Barnett? I remember Wilbon going on about that when the whole Colorado thing blew up. Methinks that notion's debatable at best.



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Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
It says that Florida is giving Meyer $14 Million over 7 years while it's reported that Notre Dame offered a 5 year deal with about a little over a Million a year. So an extra Million in your pocket a year seems like good incentive to go to Florida instead... Of course listening to Notre Dame fans a lot of their reaction was who needs him! We need a coach who when asked to lead The Irish his only response is "When should I be there".

The loss to Pitt at home I think was the breaking point in getting rid of Ty... The secondary was weak all year but they were victim to a lot of phantom defensive pass interference calls in that game late in the 4th quarter. Which is very unusual to happen to ND especially at home.




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