The W
Views: 99965436
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
@881 .beats
The W - Current Events & Politics - Bush plans to challenge program that gives preference to minority students (Page 4)
This thread has 97 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4(2332 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (74 total)
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 581 days
Last activity: 197 days
AIM:  
#61 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    I think there are two separate questions here, that are very easy to confuse with eachother.
    One is - do "minorities" and women need the help that AA and programs like it are designed to provide? Personally, I say no, but I am completely aware that this is an issue with a wide range of differing opinions. I do not think that the topic of the thread requires solving this problem. The very fact that there is a debate makes it an issue that simply can't be ignored.
    The second question- "Is Affirmative Action the proper way to solve certain racial programs?" My answer is resoundingly NO! Of course "minority" groups are going to be in favor of such a program, because it does benifit them. Let us take for granted that the "default" admission policy of most public universities is designed to exclude people of color (I disagree with this, but I am willing to start here for the sake of argument). Implementing a racist policy like AA is not the way to solve that problem! "Two wrongs don't make a right" definitly applies here. Discrimination is the act of making choices, positive or negative ones, based on race. AA propogates racism by giving preference to one race over another. Regardless of the reasoning behind it, THIS IS WRONG! Committing racism against one race is not the way to solve the problem of racism against another.
    One pro-AA argument is that schools in poorer neighborhoods are proving to be a disadvantage to colored students, and that whites have a better chance of having higher scores, which would give them preference from an admissions standpoint. My stance is that this is not the colleges problem. It is a problem, however, but not something AA can fix. First off, that argument begins with the assumption that ONLY colored students are getting a substandard education from living in the "hood." There ARE poor white people from poor white neighborhoods with terrible school systems, and under AA, not only do these students have a disadvantage because they have a crappy learning environment, they are nailed again because they are white, and an AA program would definitly boot these kids from the selection pool. Conversely, there are people of color from affluent backrounds, who go to decent schools, that are getting an unfair preferential treatment based on race. This demonstrates that AA, in an attempt to solve a problem, creates more problems. This is not what we need.
    We are all creative people (I would hope). I would think that we could each come up with solutions to the problem of "diversificating campuses" that would not alienate any race.
    AA is flawed, and obviously so. AA is also not the only answer. If you claim that you are in support of "Equal rights and opportunities for all races," how can you support a policy that directly contradicts that, especially when there ARE better solutions to be had?





I knew I should have let this alone. Look Pool-boy I really admire your convictions and all that but please dont EVER refer to black people as COLORED. That to me is the single most insulting thing you can say to me as a black man. Id rather be called a nigger. Were not colored. if you dont like saying "african-americans" then "black" is just fine. "colored" is insulting and degrading.

Thanks and im done.




Ya know how we do it, big balling and big blingin'....
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1316 days
Last activity: 82 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#62 Posted on
My reference to "colored" was a general distiction, and was not directed at blacks specifically.
If you are GOING to make racial distictions, don't get offended when someone uses a word without malice to define those distinctions.
if you can tell me a single word I can use to define the group of "All people, but white," I will. Otherwise, tone your sensitivity down a bit. It was NOT said in ANY derogatory fashion. Please, if you have read anything I have said in the past, you know I think even MAKING racial distinctions is wrong...
-damn, present a well thought out argument and get slammed right away because of a single WORD that was completely inoffensive... this is why it is near impossible to debate on this subject.

(edited by Pool-Boy on 23.1.03 1134)


Trees are for huggin'!
My attempt at a webpage


After a millineum, Keeper will return to save us all...
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2830 days
Last activity: 2673 days
AIM:  
#63 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44


    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0

      Originally posted by PalpatineW

        Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
        To Guru, I didnt assume anything, I was just presenting an example. Yes I know there are affluent african americans and poor white americans. I guess this argument could go on forever but i see you points i just hope mine are seen.

        But one more thing, its not just Blacks and other races that are helped by AA, women are also helped. People seem to forget that.



      White people also benefited extensively from slave labor. I suppose that makes it tolerable, using your logic.




    I dont know how you got that from what I wrote. The point I was trying to make that Affirmative Action was not put in place to help only Blacks. It was put in place to help ALL minorities including women.


Right. All I am saying is I don't care who it's going to help; it's wrong. My point is that lots of things are beneficial to some people, but that doesn't make them good.

(edited by PalpatineW on 23.1.03 1816)


Damn your eyes!
DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2235 days
Last activity: 1102 days
#64 Posted on
PoolBoy: It's not up to you to decide what is and isn't offensive to someone else. "Colored" is very 1950s and has no place in this discussion. Some do find it derogatory and the fact that they do should lead you to not use it (if you are concerned about other's sensitivities, that is).

The term "minorites" is perfectly fine at capturing ALL the people that AA attempts to help. Black or African-American should really be your only two choices.

Not to use your post as an example, but this is exactly the kind of oblivious insensitivity that *could* lead people to disregard your argument entirely. It's socialized and most don't even notice until someone brings it to their attention (like RockDotCom did).

DrOp--there are many issues here.



And Marking Out
Slashwrestling.com
Wienerville
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1316 days
Last activity: 82 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#65 Posted on
Ah, but in the State of California, I am a minority as a white. So that term really can't be applied.
Why are we arguing over A WORD? If you were offended by the use of the word colored, I am sorry. But it is hard to even consider that term offensive when the so called "black leaders" use it themselves.
If it makes you feel better, substitute minority for colored in my post, and read it that way.
How about someone addressing the issues I brought up, instead of dodging it by pointing out that I used a word that may or may not have been offensive?
Colored is a WORD. A classification of race, something that you have to have if you are in favor of AA. I personally would just assume throw all "racial" definitions out the window, because it leads to situations like THIS. If you can point out where I used colored with malice in that post, I will personally write individual apologies for everyone offended.
Otherwise, you know what I was trying to convey- stop trying to create "racism" where there there is none. And I really cound not care less about a person's sensitivity. This discussion is not to make people "feel better," it is to discuss solutions to a problem.

God damn do I hate political correctness.... It makes discussing ANYTHING impossible...

(edited by Pool-Boy on 23.1.03 1624)


Trees are for huggin'!
My attempt at a webpage


After a millineum, Keeper will return to save us all...
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1269 days
Last activity: 1066 days
#66 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by DrOp
    It's not up to you to decide what is and isn't offensive to someone else.


OK.....I'm gonna go down a dangerous road here.

The term "African-American" is offensive to me. Here's why.

Most people who refer to themselves as "African-American" were not born in Africa. They are of African descent yes, much like I am of English descent or my girlfriend is from Italian descent. But what would people say if we referred to ourselves as "European-Americans"? Sounds dumb right.

We need to drop the hyphenated-Americans. It's a contributing part to the continuing racial divide. We are all "Americans." Sure we come from different backgrounds, different cultures, and different races. But American is the one common bond that we do have. The compartmentalize as "African-Americans" "Italian-Americans" "Latino-American" "Klingon-American" etc balkanzizes us further and makes race problems worse, not better.



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 581 days
Last activity: 197 days
AIM:  
#67 Posted on
Pool boy: If you were black and someone called you colored you may feel differently. You may think its just a word but to me and a lot of other black people its insulting. Im sure if you ask a lot of black people (if you know any) then they will tell you the same thing. Im shocked that you think nothing of using it but then again at the same time Im not surprised at all. I mean its 2003 and someone can still say colored people and get shocked when someone takes offense to it. You even told me I should tone down my "sensitivity." Amazing.

And I wasnt dodging any argument that you made. You make good points about how things should be, some of which i agree with. But this argument about Affirmative Action can go on forever (and it has). Everybody has an opinion on it. I just wanted to agree to disagree. Im willing to absorb everyones opinion and views and move on.



Ya know how we do it, big balling and big blingin'....
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2830 days
Last activity: 2673 days
AIM:  
#68 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    Pool boy: If you were black and someone called you colored you may feel differently. You may think its just a word but to me and a lot of other black people its insulting. Im sure if you ask a lot of black people (if you know any) then they will tell you the same thing. Im shocked that you think nothing of using it but then again at the same time Im not surprised at all. I mean its 2003 and someone can still say colored people and get shocked when someone takes offense to it. You even told me I should tone down my "sensitivity." Amazing.

    And I wasnt dodging any argument that you made. You make good points about how things should be, some of which i agree with. But this argument about Affirmative Action can go on forever (and it has). Everybody has an opinion on it. I just wanted to agree to disagree. Im willing to absorb everyones opinion and views and move on.



What does NAACP stand for, again?



Damn your eyes!
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 72 days
Last activity: 72 days
#69 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    Pool boy: If you were black and someone called you colored you may feel differently. You may think its just a word but to me and a lot of other black people its insulting. Im sure if you ask a lot of black people (if you know any) then they will tell you the same thing. Im shocked that you think nothing of using it but then again at the same time Im not surprised at all. I mean its 2003 and someone can still say colored people and get shocked when someone takes offense to it. You even told me I should tone down my "sensitivity." Amazing.

    And I wasnt dodging any argument that you made. You make good points about how things should be, some of which i agree with. But this argument about Affirmative Action can go on forever (and it has). Everybody has an opinion on it. I just wanted to agree to disagree. Im willing to absorb everyones opinion and views and move on.



Do you cry when someone calls you "jerk"?

Are you offended by a person who calls you "annoying"?

Are lawsuits filed because someone uses the word "stupid" in reference to another person?

The reason people are "offended" by "racist" comments like the word "colored" is because they know they can get away with it. They decide that this bothers them because they know there will always be someone to take their side.

And that's really what it is. A decision. You can decide to let words like fuck, shit, ass, etc. bother you, or you can decide they are just words that in no way harm you. The choice is yours, though one will lead to a much happier, easier life...
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2866 days
Last activity: 2866 days
#70 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Palp asks:

    What does NAACP stand for, again?

From the NAACP website:
"1909 -- On February 12th The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People was founded by a multiracial group of activists, who answered "The Call." They initially called themselves the National Negro Committee."Click Here

1909 Palp. That's when people were using the word "colored" to refer to other human beings. It's outdated and anyone under the age of 70 in North America should realize it.

"The NAACP" is a brand ... just like "the WWF" used to be. For them to change their name to the NAABP could be as costly as the change to the WWE has been for our favorite 'rasslin company.

EDIT:

Bucsfan sez:

    The reason people are "offended" by "racist" comments like the word "colored" is because they know they can get away with it. They decide that this bothers them because they know there will always be someone to take their side.

    And that's really what it is. A decision. You can decide to let words like fuck, shit, ass, etc. bother you, or you can decide they are just words that in no way harm you. The choice is yours, though one will lead to a much happier, easier life...

So if I walk up to a black person on the street and say "Hey nigger", it's his fault that he is offended? If I walk up to a Native on the street and say "Hey Redskin" it's his fault that he is offended? If I walk up to a Japanese person and say "Hey yellow Jap" it's his fault that he is offended?

That's seriously fucked up, Bucs. Really. I mean, if I was a minority, I would like to think I would take the attitude you take. But I wouldn't blame myself if I didn't.




(edited by Gavintzu on 23.1.03 1852)


I hate the army and I hate the RAF
I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat.
I hate the civil service rules
And I won't open a letter bomb for you.
------------------------------------------------
Joe Strummer Lives!
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 83 days
Last activity: 83 days
#71 Posted on

Can someone tell me the difference between "Colored People" and "People of Color"? I don't use either phrase because I think they are both kind of stupid. The only difference I know of is that one phrase has 3 words, the other has two, and one phrase pisses people off while the other one doesn't. Doesn't really make much sense to me, but then again, I'm not some sophisticated city slicker liberal who understands this concept of "politically correct".





"My own personal feeling is that the Confederate flag no longer has a place flying any time, anywhere in our great nation." - Dick Gephardt, a man who apparently hates history AND the 1st Amendment

Maiden RULES!!!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1316 days
Last activity: 82 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#72 Posted on
Terms like nigger, kyke, Jap, etc are defined by their derogatory nature. They are meant to be demeaning and insulting, and THAT is the reason these terms are not to be used, and are rightfully considered racist.
But you just can't decide randomly that something is racist, or offensive, just because you don't like it anymore.
If I say "colored person" or "person of color," it is in no way intended to be racist, and it is certainly not used in a demeaning fashion. And yes, the NAACP is an old organization, but dammit, if their name was "National Association for the Advancement of Niggers," you damn well better bet that they would have changed that name, brand recognition or not, because that IS racist!
The turn this discussion has taken is a PERFECT example of what I think is a typical Liberal debate tactic. I make an excellent point in an argument, and instead of addressing it, the whole argument is turned into "Look how RACIST Pool-Boy is, because he said COLORED! What an asshole he is!"
If you can't already tell by my posts that I am completely disgusted by racism of ALL forms, then I can't possibly convince you, nor am I going to bother to try. But while I am completely the opposite of a racist, I also don't waste my time with PC garbage. If you are going to get squeemish that I say something that is PERFECTLY acceptable (when the NAACP changes their name because it has racist connotations, I will change my terminology, not before), but falls in the realm of Politically Incorrect, you might as well skip my posts, because I find that whole philosophy nonesense.
Now does anyone have something to say about the topic, or are we just going to continue with "Pool-Boy is a racist! Bash him!"
And Bizzle- I think you are ASKING for flames with that user picture...





(edited by Pool-Boy on 23.1.03 2352)


Pool-boy is a non-racist conservative. Yeah, most of us are. Deal with it.
My attempt at a webpage


After a millineum, Keeper will return to save us all...
DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2235 days
Last activity: 1102 days
#73 Posted on
I make an excellent point in an argument, and instead of addressing it, the whole argument is turned into "Look how RACIST Pool-Boy is, because he said COLORED! What an asshole he is!"


Nobody (at least not me) called you a racist. Colored was used during a time when we couldn't drink from the same fountain. It refered to Black people and has a strong connection to segregation. Just don't use it. Please.


"People of Color" can refer to a number of races and nationalities that tend to have varying amounts of melonin in their skins. It is NOT exclusively connected with segregation and what not and is therefore (IMO) not offensive.


DrOp--like RockDotCom, wanting to end this now was it's as circular a discussion as it can be at this point. See ya.



And Marking Out
Slashwrestling.com
Wienerville
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1316 days
Last activity: 82 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#74 Posted on
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    My reference to "colored" was a general distiction, and was not directed at blacks specifically.




    Originally posted by DrOp
    "People of Color" can refer to a number of races and nationalities that tend to have varying amounts of melonin in their skins. It is NOT exclusively connected with segregation and what not and is therefore (IMO) not offensive.




I can let the matter drop on that seeming apology...

(edited by Pool-Boy on 24.1.03 0855)


Trees are for huggin'!
My attempt at a webpage


After a millineum, Keeper will return to save us all...
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4Thread ahead: New Michigan law - Strippers must be at least 3 feet from all patrons
Next thread: Enviro-fraud
Previous thread: In VA, it's illegal to be drunk in a bar.
(2332 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Well, it's not as if he's writing peotry like he thinks he's Jewel or something. It's just silly doggerel, and I'm sure G.W. knows it. spf -- I saw another link to the poem on an ABC news site (Click Here (abc.net.au))
- Karlos the Jackal, Dubya Wrote A Poem (2003)
The W - Current Events & Politics - Bush plans to challenge program that gives preference to minority students (Page 4)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.21 seconds.