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The W - Random - Buffy Series Finale (Spoilers, obviously) (Page 2)
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
The important thing is that the hot one (the chick who usually wore the woolen cap) survived. And was even tough in the bus! Yay!



Over 1250 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day!

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Rocket
Braunschweiger








Since: 12.2.03
From: Canada

Since last post: 4172 days
Last activity: 4126 days
#22 Posted on
I found it interesting that they used the worst deus ex machina in the history of television to end the series. All season we keep geting told how unstoppable the First is, and how everyone will die. So how do they win? Angel stops by and gives Buffy a magic doodad that destroys all their enemies in the blink of an eye. Wow, thats good TV. No, wait, thats asinine. Hard to believe anything could be worse than the Star Trek: Voyager finale, but we have a new champ!
count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3489 days
Last activity: 3485 days
#23 Posted on
Well, I guess my feelings are mixed. Mostly I just marked out and had a good time, but it certainly was not an episide that will stand up to the analysis of th wienerboard.

Positve-

- The cute SIT took off her goofy hat, showed her cute red hair, then got all tough and kicked some ass.
-bunnies
-the fight scene itself kicked ass. Very intense.
-Faith stepped up and represented when it was her time.
-Angel's dialogue about having a soul before it was cool.
-Buffy gave her best speech of the season
-killing Spike was the best thing they could do for him.

Not so hot-

-It needed 2 hours. I had just assumed this.
-the finale made no sense. Willow was use the "essense of the scythe" to turn all potentials into slayers- huh? Usually the finale reflects an overlying theme of the season.
-low death toll. That took away a feeling of finality. I can't believe Buffy suvived. I know killing her for the third time would be a cliche, but doesn't her being alive throw a wrench into the Angelverse? Won't the first option in any real bad situation be calling Buffy?
The mortal wound was a bit silly. You knew Buffy wasn't dead at 8:45.

I enjoyed it. RIP Buffy
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 1 day
#24 Posted on
Overall, this was probably the best episode of this particular season. A Joss written show is always a little better than the others, as he has a much better feel for the characters. The characters in this episode were not the same as the characters in the other shows of the season. All the goodies are already listed.

I will say that I disagree with those that say that the end needed two hours. Heck, all the other two hour season finale's were simply two regular episodes shown together in one night. What they needed was to make better use of the 21 hours (episodes) before this. Like I had said before, it was frustrating that the third-to-last episode was one in which the show was just marking time. Too many of those this season (and the one before), and the end just showed that there was so much they could have been doing. Instead they had to stuff the last episode, and use lazy plot devices like magic axes and doodads to fill the holes.

Still, all in all it was an entertaining hour, and will be a big "good TV" hole to fill now that it is gone.

As far as Spike goes, what about this. There's something called the The Shanshu prophecy from Angel's show. It said
"The vampire with a soul will stop the apocolypse and become human." Apparently, it has always been assumed that this referred to Angel. But what if it actually refers to Spike. Seems to fit perfectly to me.

(edited by ges7184 on 21.5.03 1840)
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3748 days
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#25 Posted on
Olaf, I think the ending DID reflect the overall theme of the season. Unfortunately, the theme of the season was "bad writing". (:

I was pretty disappointed, for the most part. Some of the little moments were nice, Angel muttering about his being the ORIGINAL vamp-with-soul and the D&D game most especially... but it really fell flat for me. Best episode of the season, yeah, but the rest of the season really kinda sucked.

I've said before that the apocalypse bit is way, way overdone, and they already did pretty much the definitive "ending" on their last WB episode. I really, really wish they could've gone in a different direction but oh well...

Oh, and I may as well weigh in with my thoughts on "what Spike'll do". I think he'll be the new agent of the Powers That Be, and be Charlie to Angel's... er. Yeah.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
uberlou
Merguez








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, Cali

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#26 Posted on
I watched it again this afternoon. I didn't miss a thing it turns out but it was still a great episode the second time around.

Anyway, I assume the redhead woolen cap wearing girl everyone would be referring to would be Vi. I really didn't start paying much attention to her till the last few episodes and something about her just really stood out in the last episode.

If anyone cares, you can actually find a copy of the finale script here. Someone passed the link on to me a few weeks ago. I looked at one or two pages of the script and closed it right after seeing that it seemed pretty legit and it turned out to be true. Included too are some parts that were edited from the final show. One I saw was more of Buffy talking to the SITs during the whole ra-ra speech.



A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3557 days
Last activity: 3557 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
What,?! Voyager was a better finale, you are out of your mind. Voyager was a terrible, contrived show that brought down the Star Trek franchise. The finale was a mirror of that crappy show. Future Janeway goes back in time to save 7 of 9 to do so she gives the weapons the Federation has built to defeat the Borg. Midway through the battle, the Borg adapt and now can assimilate Earth at any time. That was fucking stupid. This finale was nowhere near as bad and this show is light years ahead of that piece of shit.

I will agree it needed more an another hour or so, but thats just wanting to see more of the gang not less of them. The finale was one good scene after another. This has been their strongest season since season 3 and went out a great note. Its called a story arc, it has many layers to it, if you want to see bad writng, I present to you most of the networks line-up. The season had a number of surprises and elements to it that have been missing since Season 5. It was a great season.

As for the finale battle being to short, lets go over what was done to get to this level. Team Angel had to defeat the Beast, Jasmine, Angelus and Conner. Then once that was done they got the amulet. For the Buffy gang they got it worse. From the very beginnig, the First was fucking with them either menatally or having its minions attack them. All through the season, it was one First victroy after another until Buffy killed the original vampire. They were on a roll for awhile then Caleb showed up and that was the end of that. They had to get stuff like the axe, SiTs, Faith, Spike and the Amulet to win. If you watch both Angel and Buffy, you see they did a lot to win just to get to the finale battle, the finale battle was short, because they had the tools they needed. Plus, the body count was fairly high for a Buffy Finale, Anya and Spike plus the minor SiTs all lost their lives. People did die, its just with Spike coming back on Angel, it softens the blow.

A Fan- That Transformers Movie refrence will have me laughing all week.
Bongo P. Michinoku
Italian








Since: 31.8.02
From: VanCan

Since last post: 3814 days
Last activity: 3612 days
ICQ:  
#28 Posted on
DS9 finale > Buffy finale > B5 finale > smell of ass > shooting myself in the foot > Voyager finale.

Anyway, I'm really confused about the whole Spike thing. Isn't he supposed to be on Angel next year?



Vancouver/Minnie: 2-1 Van.
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#29 Posted on
    Originally posted by Bongo P. Michinoku
    DS9 finale > Buffy finale > B5 finale > smell of ass > shooting myself in the foot > Voyager finale.

    Anyway, I'm really confused about the whole Spike thing. Isn't he supposed to be on Angel next year?



I liked your illustration, but it worries me that the Buffy Finale was only two steps up from the smell of ass. ;-)

As for Spike, I can only assume that the finale was in the can or close to completion before Marsters' Angel casting was agreed upon.

Now that the finale is over it's worth giving that script a read. (Aside from the fact that it's missing the page where Anya and Amanda die.) There were some good unused jokes (Mr. Fantastic). I also like that Joss cusses in his scene descriptions. ("They conitnue moving heavy shit.")

Oh, and according to that script, it wasn't Chao An (subtitle SIT) that died, it was an unnamed SIT. Upon checking the tape again, I think Chao An was AWOL for the episode.

A Fan, glad I could give you a good laugh.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 22.5.03 0918)



"And you've been so busy lately, that you haven't found the time,
To open up your mind,
And watch the world spinning, gently out of time."
Bongo P. Michinoku
Italian








Since: 31.8.02
From: VanCan

Since last post: 3814 days
Last activity: 3612 days
ICQ:  
#30 Posted on
I might move the B5 finale up a spot since I haven't seen it in ages and my opinion of B5's fifth season isn't too high, I figure I'm being unfair.

I'm just glad the cute british potential survived. I think Chao An was there and lived, but I can't be too sure - things got pretty hectic in that cave, hard to get an accurate body count.



Vancouver/Minnie: 2-1 Van.
komarkaze
Mettwurst








Since: 9.1.03
From: VA

Since last post: 2196 days
Last activity: 2193 days
#31 Posted on
It was a pretty decent finale. I wished they could have tied up some odd unanswered questions here and there. And also how Willow was able to do powerful magic without a negative side effect (I don't consider becoming a goddess negative), but whatever. After reading the 10 questions with Joss, the final battle plan makes a lot more sense. The show was about Buffy being a girl with super powers that she didn't understand, and how she coped with it. Season 7 focused about the power and understanding it. All season, Buffy was constantly reminded about how she is the Chosen One and only she had all the pressure. It made her alone from everyone. One more taunt by the First made her realize that she doesn't have to be alone anymore. Now there's many slayers running around now, hitting home runs out of Little League parks and whatnot. My concern is that by next season's Angel, if the storyline will become like Xmen where there's a special school for the gifted girls along with a cast of evil girls. The mutant ripoff crap didn't work for Birds of Prey.



Matt Facts: Matt only uses low-fat salad dressing
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 9 min.
#32 Posted on
Marsters commented that he found out his role in the finale months ago (I think in Feb, maybe earlier), so Spike's death had been decided on LONG before the decision for him to jump to Angel. At the time of shooting, Marsters was negotiating to get on Angel, but money issues were the hold up. That's all been worked out.

Count me as one of the people thinking that Shanshu will be how they bring Spike back. I don't know how smart the Oracles are, but one would have to think that before Spike was ensouled, everyone assumed that any references to a souled vampire were references to Angel. Spike, by using *Angel's* amulet, now gets Angel's fate. The real questions are did Wolfram and Hart (and Lilah?) know what that amulet would do, and if so, were they expecting Angel to go use it? What does it mean when your enemy surrenders only to give you a suicide inducing bauble? Unless they knew that the end result would be a human Angel, but why would they want that? (Well, he would be weaker...) Hopefully, these twists will be addressed on Angel in some form, although I'm not holding my breath.




Working through my unemployment.
J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 81 days
Last activity: 7 hours
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Y!:
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! Jkyle.com says:


    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    Hopefully, these twists will be addressed on Angel in some form, although I'm not holding my breath.
They'll do it the same day they explain what/who Whistler is!

I didn't think Subtitles died this ep, I thought she died in Caleb's first trap along with Teddy Bear Backpack Slayer... someone get a profile page for those SITs up already. At least one of them has to be heading down to Angel next year, and I'd bet it was the red-haired one who was barking orders towards the end of the finale.



You can never have too many Whedon related threads.
JKyle.com Not quite dead!
11/04/02 Bastard of the Day
(Still waiting for the Hyatte/Scotsman Feud)
count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3489 days
Last activity: 3485 days
#34 Posted on
okay, so Trogdor? What the hell is that?
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54


    Then once that was done they got the amulet. For the Buffy gang they got it worse. From the very beginnig, the First was fucking with them either menatally or having its minions attack them. All through the season, it was one First victroy after another until Buffy killed the original vampire. They were on a roll for awhile then Caleb showed up and that was the end of that. They had to get stuff like the axe, SiTs, Faith, Spike and the Amulet to win.


Here's the thing....the First DIDN'T keep up the all-out assault. Remember that 3-4 episode span when the First was in 'remission'? What the hell was that? I thought the First Evil was a great idea for a villain because (given the nature of the character) it can show up at anytime and look like anyone, so you don't even have to pay the same actor to appear in every episode. There were SO MANY missed opportunities for mind games that the First could've used (showing up as Angel to fuck with Buffy, Tara for Willow, that guy Jesse from the pilot for Xander, Jenny or his dad for Giles, etc.). If the whole plan was to destroy the Slayers all along, then why not just send Caleb and the Bringers in an all-out assault on Buffy's house?



Over 1250 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day!

In the issues of December 16th, 2000 to November 10th, 2001, we may have given the impression that George W. Bush had been legally and duly elected president of the United States. We now understand that this may have been incorrect, and that the election result is still too close to call. The Economist apologizes for any inconvenience.
--- The Economist, 11/17/01
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3748 days
Last activity: 3217 days
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#36 Posted on
You wanna know what my big problem with this whole season is, looking back?

The plan. It started out great. First offs the Council, starts killin' potentials worldwide... and then completely forgets EVERYTHING except Sunnydale.

So, let's see... you have an army of super-vampires, thousands of years of experience, and at LEAST one more hellmouth you can work with. So, let's gather all your forces RIGHT BY the only person who can possibly defeat you, AND a weapon custom-made for her to use.

I'm sorry, if I'm the First, I'd have super-vamps crawling out of every hellmouth BUT the one in Sunnydale. Keep Caleb close to Buffy, just to distract her.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
y4j1981
Kolbasz








Since: 1.4.03
From: Dale City, Virginia

Since last post: 1986 days
Last activity: 1926 days
#37 Posted on

    Originally posted by Bongo P. Michinoku
    DS9 finale > Buffy finale > B5 finale > smell of ass > shooting myself in the foot > Voyager finale.

    Anyway, I'm really confused about the whole Spike thing. Isn't he supposed to be on Angel next year?



WB can always use one last cross over deal. Have Angel and gang get into a lot of trouble and then Willow comes to town and she reads a spell on summoning a great "good" to help and all of them are shocked that Spike is the one sent.



Your Official Sunday, April 13, 2003 Randomly Selected Wiener Of The Day!!
Keeper
Italian
Moderator








Since: 1.3.02
From: Worcester, MA

Since last post: 389 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#38 Posted on
Here is a link to a post series finally interview with Joss. It is from TV Guide.

When asked about bringing Spike back, his answer is "That's a conversation I'm going to be having with the Angel writers very soon."

Also, it isn't a bad interview either.

(edited by Keeper on 23.5.03 1713)


Don't fear the Reaper.
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 9 min.
#39 Posted on
When they pimp Whedon talking about Charisma Carpenter's status, they're talking about next Tuesday, right?



Working through my unemployment.
shockdown
Cotechino








Since: 28.12.02

Since last post: 3872 days
Last activity: 3846 days
#40 Posted on

    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    You wanna know what my big problem with this whole season is, looking back?

    The plan. It started out great. First offs the Council, starts killin' potentials worldwide... and then completely forgets EVERYTHING except Sunnydale.

    So, let's see... you have an army of super-vampires, thousands of years of experience, and at LEAST one more hellmouth you can work with. So, let's gather all your forces RIGHT BY the only person who can possibly defeat you, AND a weapon custom-made for her to use.

    I'm sorry, if I'm the First, I'd have super-vamps crawling out of every hellmouth BUT the one in Sunnydale. Keep Caleb close to Buffy, just to distract her.



A big problem was that you had too many stretches where plot points that could have been handled in one episode are stretched out over 2-3 episodes, wasting time that could go to things like say, character development. I'm thinking of the whole Spike as a sleeper agent ("Sleeper" & "Never Leave Me" -- eps 8 & 9), which, after spending two episodes on it, wasn't resolved until his confrontation with Principal Wood --- 8 eps later! Then you have the whole Ubervamp introduction ("Bring On The Night" & "Showtime") -- then you don't see them again until towards the end of the season. And the "Is Giles the First?" nonsense went on too long, especially for such a weak payoff.

As for Caleb...he shold have been revealed much earlier. With Jasmine, it worked introducing her later on in the season, because she had others (The Beast, and to an extent, Angelus) out causing damage, not to mention the demons running loose when the sun went out; plus everything that happened had to happen for her to come into existence on Earth. The First had nothing of the sort -- the first Ubervamp was gone in 2 episodes, and the Bringers were not that much of a threat once all the SITs made it to Sunnydale.

I enjoyed the finale, but it didn't make up for this lackluster season. Definitely, there was no "standout" episode that you remember and really want to watch again (ala "Hush" from season 4, "the Body" from s5, etc.). Have to say that Angel, as has been the case for a while, simply had a much better season.



Power flows to the one who knows how -- desire alone is not enough.

--- Megatron
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The Emmy's suck. Every year its the same junk, Sopranos (Bad season), West Wing (Just so boring) and 6 Feet Under (too gay) in the Drama's. Where was the Shield?
- tshman122, Emmy Award Nominations (2003)
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