May or may not be accurate (this is after all, Dave 'CM Punk will 100% be at Raw' Meltzer)
But as a Bryan fan I'm worried for the leader of the 'Yes' movement. So Bryan loses to Lesnar & Cesaro cashes in. Way to make Bryan look like a chump there. Besides, then what? Does Bryan even get a rematch? Or do we stick him back in the mid card & forget the last year ever happened?
You are wondering if they are going to give him the total Benoit push? It would be a great match, but I am seeing dirtsheet reports that Bryan's rehab is not going well. So, I think seeing Bryan/Brock has a slim chance to happen at SummerSlam. Brock is not the safest worker in the world.
I also think the Cesaro train needs to slow down a bit. He is not ready to be a world title holder, but a match against Brock at SummerSlam or Mania would be good for him.
The Bryan vs Brock w/Cesaro story goes back to right after WrestleMania, when Cesaro was a much hotter guy than he is right now (and would end up as a face in this) and part of it was an assumption that Brock has to be in a big role next time we see him after being Undertaker.
That was all before Bryan accidentally feuded with Kane for three months, when holding the title from WrestleMania to SummerSlam would've seemed like a strong reign. Plans can change.
Bryan's injury status probably needs it's own thread.
This is the match we've all been dreaming about, long before it seemed possible that they'd burn an expensive Brock Lesnar tri-annual dream match on Daniel Bryan. Now we're finally here and it's under bittersweet circumstances because of his injury. But here's what we know:
- WWE hasn't wanted to take the title off of Bryan, in part because they already had their SummerSlam main event planned.
- Lesnar is booked for a two-match run this year instead of his usual SS-and-out big match, working the September PPV which will be loaded up like no Unforgiven before as the "Network Renewal Rumble."
- Cesaro is supposed to get MITB.
Put two and two together and it seems like if all things go as planned, Lesnar is going to be having matches with our two very greatest friends in the biggest ROH iPPVs ever. Who saw that coming when he signed the contract in 2012? Quite a change of pace from the Undertaker and Big Show tag team (what were they called? all I know is they rode bikes in the desert).
Should Daniel Bryan's reign have a locked expiration date at SummerSlam (like he's Superstar Billy Graham or something), and should Lesnar be getting pinned by Cesaro so few matches after MCBLCTUUSAWrestlemania (since he's not taking the title back to his cabin to use as a gun rack until March) are deeper questions.
Originally posted by stevengill87But as a Bryan fan I'm worried for the leader of the 'Yes' movement. So Bryan loses to Lesnar & Cesaro cashes in. Way to make Bryan look like a chump there. Besides, then what? Does Bryan even get a rematch? Or do we stick him back in the mid card & forget the last year ever happened?
I don't know if Bryan's long-awaited title reign will get a chance to make up for lost time and wrong challengers, but the skittishness over his overall positioning should probably stop forever. He's never going back to where he was pre-Royal Rumble. He's there for good.
Originally posted by steven87gillMay or may not be accurate (this is after all, Dave 'CM Punk will 100% be at Raw' Meltzer)
He deserves to hear it for that one, but if we're going to talk about wrestling scoopery the inner workings to which we are not privy, he's the best lense in. Otherwise there's no point in discussing anything that wasn't shown on Raw without the qualifier of "what is the philosophic nature of 'truth' when every representation is indeed a re-presentation?"
I like to think I was first in on the "Lesnar vs. Bryan needs to happen" express, as somewhere on this world wide web site there's a post with me gushing about Bryan being the guy who yanked Lesnar out of the ring during the pull-apart brawl with Cena, leading to fantasy booking that match (not to be confused with the time I fantasy booked matches where Randy Orton summoned a giant snake god to eat the planet).
In a perfect world, a healthy Bryan - who didn't lose any family members and, equally tragically, didn't feud with Kane - losing the belt at SummerSlam would have been the right time, especially in a money match vs. Brock. Bryan standing in there and giving Brock an amazing match in defeat wouldn't hurt him, especially if, say, he'd beaten Randy Orton at Extreme Rules, Wave Batista at Payback and HHH at Money In The Bank. That said, fearless injured warrior Daniel Bryan being forced to go against Lesnar at SummerSlam (especially if he's not fully medically cleared, possibly involving a long-overdue Dr. James Andrews heel turn) would still be fine, though I'd want to see Bryan get the win back at Wrestlemania Thirty-One*.
Serious question: IS Lesnar unsafe? He certainly looks unsafe; that's pretty much the heart of his massive appeal as a pro wrestler, that he looks like he might just straight murder opponents on a whim. But aside from cases with extenuating circumstances like Bob Holly (an asshole) or the Undertaker (super old, also technically already dead), did/does Brock legit hurt people regularly?
If the plan is Bryan->Brock->Cesaro (and I really hope it is, since that's the one that justifies the seeming Cesaro fumble), we can assume that Reigns is tied up with Evolution into the fall. What does that mean for Cena, though? This would seemingly take Bryan, Cesaro, Lesnar, Reigns, HHH and Orton out of play.
Four months of Cena vs. Rusev? Big E heel turn? Sheamus heel turn? Cena just comes out and watches Sami Zayn matches in the middle of the ring and says "Isn't this guy great?"
If Bryan is healthy and it's Lesnar/Bryan at Summerslam then I'd have Cesaro win the MitB match but when Bryan beats Lesnar at SummerSlam Heyman reveals that the MitB briefcase actually belongs to him because of some sort of legalese in the contract. Heyman gives the briefcase to Lesnar to get a second shot at Bryan and wins. Cesaro being scewed by Lesnar/Heyman then turns face.
I certainly don't think it should be Lesnar beats Bryan then Cesaro cashes in the MitB and wins like some people are suggesting. I can't really put my finger on it but something doesn't seem right about cashing the MitB in on Lesnar. I guess it's that he's such a beast (incarnate) that even after wrestling an entire match somebody cashing in wouldn't seem to have that big of an advantage, which would diminish the whole point of the briefcase.
You know, I've been going over in my mind what the point is of Heyman talking up Lesnar over and over during Cesaro matches. This storyline seems to be the answer -- Cesaro gets jealous and turns, or as Quezzy suggests, Heyman steals his MITB contract through legal chicanery. I reeeeally like that idea as a way to make a Cesaro win even more of a pop.
Originally posted by Dr Unlikely Serious question: IS Lesnar unsafe? He certainly looks unsafe; that's pretty much the heart of his massive appeal as a pro wrestler, that he looks like he might just straight murder opponents on a whim. But aside from cases with extenuating circumstances like Bob Holly (an asshole) or the Undertaker (super old, also technically already dead), did/does Brock legit hurt people regularly?
In the Holly case, I recall reading that Hardcore had decided to go deadweight during some move in an attempt to teach the "rookie" a lesson. Unfortunately for the Lockerroom Leader, in this case the guy he was bullying really was a rookie, and thus wasn't able to finish the move properly on his own. I'm assuming that Bryan wouldn't try going rogue on Brock mid-match, so he should be fine in that regard.
Since I'm going to SummerSlam this year (10th row center, on-camera side!), Bryan vs Brock is ideally what I'd want to see as a fan live. Last year, I got my dream Punk/Brock and Cena/Bryan double main event, so I'm hoping to make it two-for-two. It makes sense to combine the two best matches of last year's SummerSlam into one awesome main event match.
As sick as I am of SummerSlam MITB cash-ins, the Cesaro thing makes the most sense since it means Lesnar doesn't have to carry around the belt, it pays off the "Cesaro is a Heyman Guy But Heyman's Guy Is Really Lesnar" angle and, most importantly, puts a new guy on top in Cesaro. I'm all for it.
I'm guessing WWE still finds a way to make it happen unless Bryan's recovery goes super horribly. Even if someone else wins MITB like Cena or Orton, they still have another PPV in Battleground where Bryan could win the belt back. Then, Lesnar could go over at SummerSlam with Cesaro getting the title shot at Night of Champions and beating him there.
Originally posted by JustinShapiroI don't know if Bryan's long-awaited title reign will get a chance to make up for lost time and wrong challengers, but the skittishness over his overall positioning should probably stop forever. He's never going back to where he was pre-Royal Rumble. He's there for good.
I think there'll be room for skittishness in the future. Within a year of WrestleMania 10, Bret Hart was wrestling Hakushi and Jean Pierre-Lafitte. And within a year of WrestleMania 20, Benoit was... wrestling some other dudes. Bret was easily repositioned at the top when they needed him, and Bryan can do the same, but I don't think Bryan's spot is guaranteed.
Still, Bryan's been able to get crowd reactions they haven't been able to, but as guys like Reigns (the new Diesel/Batista), Cesaro, and who-knows-who ascend the ranks, the less room at the very top there'll be for Bryan and the more flaky they can be with him.
Assuming he stays healthy, Bryan will probably be better off long term, though, if his merch sales stick. We'll see.
Originally posted by Dr UnlikelyBryan standing in there and giving Brock an amazing match in defeat wouldn't hurt him, especially if, say, he'd beaten Randy Orton at Extreme Rules, Wave Batista at Payback and HHH at Money In The Bank. That said, fearless injured warrior Daniel Bryan being forced to go against Lesnar at SummerSlam (especially if he's not fully medically cleared, possibly involving a long-overdue Dr. James Andrews heel turn) would still be fine, though I'd want to see Bryan get the win back at Wrestlemania Thirty-One*.
Yeah, that's how I'd do it. It would allow for Brock and Bryan to both have meaningful runs, max capitalize on Paul Heyman's Client Brock Lesnar Ending the Streak, and especially if WM31 ended with Bryan making Lesnar tap (which he hasn't done since returning) it would be a tremendous payoff.
But, somewhere in there, WWE likely has plans for Cena/Cesaro/Reigns to either hold the title or be competing for it. Maybe even HHH, but either way, Brock can't have a prolonged run simply because WWE is having a hard enough time with Bryan as a champion who can't wrestle regularly (or at all).
Just switch out Brie Bella with Paul Heyman and we'd have months of back-and-forth interview segments that go nowhere. I guess that's where MITB could end up saving us from that.
I'm still of the view that Bryan/Cena is the most logical Mania XXXI title match.
But in absence of that, I have to agree with SKLOKAZOID & Dr Unlikely. Unlike Brock/HHH II or Cena/Rock II, Bryan nobly losing to Brock & getting his win back at Mania 31 is a story of 'redemption' that fans will actually care about.
Originally posted by steven87gillI'm still of the view that Bryan/Cena is the most logical Mania XXXI title match.
But in absence of that, I have to agree with SKLOKAZOID & Dr Unlikely. Unlike Brock/HHH II or Cena/Rock II, Bryan nobly losing to Brock & getting his win back at Mania 31 is a story of 'redemption' that fans will actually care about. (edited by steven87gill on 5.6.14 1504)
Bella on a pole match.
That redemption story is the one that makes the most sense and would be the most compelling. As was said in other threads by other people, the wwe is flush with hungry and able talent. The devaluation of the IC belt is a huge problem that they're trying to fix. Hopefully this creative team has the stamina to see the title fully rehabilitated to the level of prestige it had when Savage held it. I like the idea of Heyman being slimy and taking the briefcase for his clients instead of just for Cesaro if/when he wins it. You would have to have a few Cesaro-Bryan matches to establish that Heyman doesn't believe that Cesaro is ready to take Bryan down before he gives the briefcase to Brock, but that wouldn't be hard to do.
All that being said, I hope the reports of loss of strength in his arm are exaggerated. More damage is going to be done, and this will probably (eventually) end his career. But for the short term, I hope that he is able to go out and do what he loves to do without pain or the specter of paralysis looming overhead.
As for the safe-ness of Brock as a worker, I don't think a matchup with Bryan is risky at all. Holly was an asshat who got what he deserved, intentional or not, for being such an asshat for so long. He directly caused the injury and deserves no sympathy for what happened there. As for Undertaker, and this is pure speculation, given his affinity for MMA, I can easily see him approaching Brock and asking him to make the match more "legit" and stiff not only as an homage to MMA, but also to satisfy his ego by seeing how he would really match up against the former UFC heavyweight champion. The answer: not well at all. Bryan isn't going to be taking any 80% Lesnar punches. I also can't think of anyone safer to have throw Bryan around, simply based on his strength, physical abilities, and experience.
Today's Observer says the dream is probably dead. Lesnar challenging for the title is the planned main event for SummerSlam, but they are hoping SS will be Bryan's first show back, so he won't have time to win the belt back. Meltzer says Bryan is still penciled in for one of the top matches at SummerSlam if he is ready.
Dave presumes a babyface will have to win at MITB to defend against Lesnar. Cena/Lesnar is technically a new match with the title at stake this time. Reigns/Lesnar would change the planned Reigns/HHH match but if the time is now for Reigns then, I guess, so be it. (It seems kind of risky to let Reigns directly take Bryan's belt if they want him to be beloved.) Meltzer says the Cesaro/Heyman split was not supposed to happen for a while, but they could change the timeline to set up Cesaro vs. Lesnar.
Hopefully Lesnar could win the title at SummerSlam and defend against Bryan at Night of Champions, basically the reverse order of the original plans. So at least we can still see the match, but the SummerSlam aspect made it seem more special.
Quick thought. did anyone else notice the incredibly high match quality these four men put up for us on Raw? I mean it was a high PPV quality tag match on RAW! Really makes you appreciate the effort by all those in the match even more