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21.9.14 0122
The W - Pro Wrestling - Brock Lesnar and the return of the Monster Heel
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samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 339 days
Last activity: 331 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
I am excited about Lesnar returning. More excited than I was about The Rock, because while the Rock is known mostly for talking, Lesnar is known mostly for ringwork. Specifically insanely athletic and dominant ringwork. I understand he probably won't be full time, but I hope that he will be something the WWE needs right now: a true Monster Heel.

I just watched his 2002 Smackdown match Hogan. The match was nothing too memorable other than the unexpected finish, but the post-match beatdown sequence was amazing. I love how Lesnar would leave and then return, each attack becoming more violent and disrespectful. I don't know how much of that character was Lesnar, Heyman, or the writing staff, but I hope that Lesnar plays the same sort of unstoppable monster heel that he played during his initial run.

Lesnar/Hogan match on Dailymotion:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5k6rs_hulk-hogan-vs-brock-lesnar-smackdow_shortfilms

The only monster heel in WWE right now is Mark Henry. I like his act, but he is too slow and plodding to be put over as truly dangerous. He doesn't show the same sort of savage fury (UFC term: explosiveness) that Lesnar is capable of showing. Most other heels are smarmy jerks. I think the field is wide open for Lesnar to be the dominant heel that everybody wants to see beaten but who nobody can beat. It's an easy enough build, and while some sacrifices will have to be made to do it, the payoff when someone finally beats him will be well worth it.

I also wonder if Lesnar will work his signature rapidfire hammerfists into his WWE work. His ringwork has got to evolve based on all of his MMA training, it's just a matter of what works and what doesn't in the context of pro wrestling.

What do you expect from Lesnar's return? I'm not looking for wild speculation on who he will be facing inn a year's time, but what are you anticipating most about him being back in the fold?
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CruelAngel777
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Since: 7.4.02

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
I'd much rather see the "monster push" go to someone who didn't jump ship in the pursuit of more money elsewhere. For all the animosity WWE and Vince vicariously spoke through Cena about turning his back on the business, at least Rock's departure made people look good such as his feud Hurricane Helms, Goldberg, even Lesnar. Plus Rock's leaving wasn't damn near overnight. You could see Rock was on his way to Hollywood after the Scorpion King, but it was a transition that took months to happen.

Lesnar just up and said "fuck it" a few days before Wrestlemania. Tries and fails in the NFL, goes to wrestle in New Japan, gets the record setting gaijin monster push, feels like being a MMA fighter, jumps ship from NJPW to Pride while still being IWGP champion (and not giving the physical belt back for a year, nor dropping the belt against anyone on New Japan or All Japan's roster. Kurt Angle got that honor cause he's a up and coming New Japan wrest.... oh wait, he wasn't) Now that his football career and MMA career are dead, HEY look who's back! He's unreliable, he's self-centered, he's on THE NEXT BIG THING smoking it's Brock!

I know Vince is looking at Brock and seeing a floating dollar sign like a cartoon. I don't expect fans as jaded and scrutinizing as me to remember or know all this. In regards to this thread however I much prefer the monster push going to Henry. I've never been impressed with Henry in the decade plus time he's been in the WWE until right after winning the World Title. Henry really doesn't need to do much in-ring to prove he is a powerhouse, his promos (or half-man half-pitbull order barks) are the definition of intimidating.

I just have the feeling he's waiting til his MMA school opens up or he gets a UFC manager/commentator position then he's up and gone next week.

(edited by CruelAngel777 on 6.4.12 1014)

(edited by CruelAngel777 on 6.4.12 1015)
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
Given he is signed for a year that seems unlikely. He already went through one multi-year lawsuit with WWE, I doubt he's in a hurry to do another one where he's much more in the wrong.



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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 84 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
I was never a Brock Lesnar fan during his first run with WWE. His whole Aryan jar head muscle farm boy demeanor didn't resonate with me - couldn't relate. Still can't, really. My favorite Lesnar WWE moment of that era was the shitstorm of a match he had with Goldberg at WrestleMania XX that bounced them both out of the company, just because it was so hilariously, legendarily awful. Overall, I just found Brock Lesnar a bore.

However, I did warm up to Lesnar a bit more during his UFC run, just because I'm even less of a fan of UFC than I was of Lesnar, and Lesnar was at least a recognizable face I knew of who served as a gateway into MMA for me.

In the RAW thread, there were comments about how out of shape Lesnar looked, but I actually like his look now. Less spray-tanned, smooth, streamlined muscle and more grizzled and raw, like he's been through real fights and real wars in cages, which he has. I find Brock considerably more intriguing now that he's had real successes and some epic real defeats outside of WWE. Actual life experience makes Brock more interesting to me.

More than Cena, I find Brock vs. CM Punk probably the most interesting possibility forthcoming, especially for the WWE Title. I feel like their striking styles would mesh well, though Brock could potentially savage Punk.

I think the undercurrent of "Brock could turn a work into a shoot in an instant" any time he steps into a WWE ring from here on in is the most intriguing thing about his return.

(edited by John Orquiola on 6.4.12 1118)


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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.79
Three questions: Is Lesnar going to be a heel? Is Lesnar going to be a heel who gets constantly cheered? Is Lesnar going to be a heel who is anti-pro wrestling and only back for the money and the actual embodiment of Cena's criticisms of Rock ... and gets constantly cheered?

    Originally posted by CruelAngel777
    I'd much rather see the "monster push" go to someone who didn't jump ship in the pursuit of more money elsewhere.


More? He gave up his $1 million per year downside to make the NFL minimum.
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 339 days
Last activity: 331 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
I see Lesnar's 2004 departure from WWE as the choice of a young guy who is an 99th percentile elite athlete. By all acounts I read he was fed up with the travel and politics and wanted to see what else he could accomplish before his freakishly athletic body got too old. Now, after a very successful MMA career, he's back in WWE to make a few bucks.

If the story is about the superior athlete who once played with the elites (UFC) and is now slumming it in WWE to make easy money, he could probably get legit heel heat. And that sets the stage nicely for a wrestler's wrestler, like CM Punk, to decisively beat him to prove that WWE isn't the minor league at all.

I like John O's comparison in Brock's appearance from 2004 to now. He is indeed more raw and grizzled. And if he grows that badass Viking beard that he had during his UFC run, it'll be even more pronounced. For a guy whose worst physical attribute is his weirdly shaped head, a beard is almost necessary. However, there might not be room in WWE for both of Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar's heel beards.

(edited by samoflange on 6.4.12 1536)
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 95 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.76

Wasnt Mark Henry a monster heel?

Didn't he steamroll through SD and beat Orton clean?



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Moss
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Since: 23.9.10
From: Calgary, AB

Since last post: 37 days
Last activity: 5 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.88
Yes, and that's exactly why he got over.



Shut up, Josh!
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 12 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.69
    Originally posted by Moss
    Yes, and that's exactly why he got over.

The awesomness of Mark Henry also helped.

HIS HEART DON'T PUMP KOOL AID!

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    More? He gave up his $1 million per year downside to make the NFL minimum.
Yeah, Brock was a made man in WWE. He was guaranteed next to nothing in football or MMA. Say what you will about how he left, but he took a hell of a financial risk doing it.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 429 days
Last activity: 158 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.43
Some thoughts:

-I like the idea of Brock coming back for "easy money". My main problem with signing Brock is that it is basically admitting that UFC is the tougher job. But if it is BROCK the one saying it, then suddenly everyone wants to step up to defend WWE.

-Read an idea I liked (maybe Scott Keith's blog) where they basically do the Batman Knightfall storyline with Johnny L forcing Punk to wrestle every week until he's exhausted and the Brock comes in like Bane and destroys him.

-If Brock is the guy "too good for wrestling" you have a lot of potential feuds. Cena would be out to defend the WWE name. Punk would be out to defend the honor of pro wrestling (Daniel Bryan could also make a triumphant face turn to save the sport).
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 13 hours
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
I would fantasy book Brock as the loveable chum of Santino, personally.

Frankly, how do we know he'll play heel? Because he did his move to Cena? I recall both the Rock and CM Punk beefing with Cena over the past year, they aren't heels.



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-Me.
jerichofan717
Chipolata








Since: 21.12.10
From: Albany, NY

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#12 Posted on
The only thing I want out of this Brock return is for Ziggler to take an F5 and oversell so much he flies out of the ring.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.18
I would actually love to see Punk not Cena be the one to stop him or at least not lose in the first fight. I like the Knightfall angle, but that would mean down the line Punk would have to get the title back. Punk will need that win back, it can't be another HHH situation where we say its ok for him to beat Punk at the height of Punk's popularity and give nothing to Punk for his effort.

I think we can all see Rock laying down to Cena somewhere during his run. I even suspect Rock will probably lose to Punk, Ziggler and maybe another person. They can not give undefeated runs to Rock and Brock. It make all the every day guys look bad. They need to get other people over. They didn't need to get Cena over, because he is. That is why I was ok for Rock to go over. If it was Rock/Punk or Rock/Sheamus then no dice on Rock going over. They need to use Brock and Rock to get those guys stuck in the midcard or even wearing belts over.

(edited by lotjx on 8.4.12 2015)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.











Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Lord of the Manor
Chourico








Since: 24.2.03
From: London, United Kingdom

Since last post: 571 days
Last activity: 494 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
    Originally posted by lotjx

    I think we can all see Rock laying down to Cena somewhere during his run. I even suspect Rock will probably lose to Punk, Ziggler and maybe another person. They can not give undefeated runs to Rock and Brock. It make all the every day guys look bad. They need to get other people over. They didn't need to get Cena over, because he is. That is why I was ok for Rock to go over. If it was Rock/Punk or Rock/Sheamus then no dice on Rock going over. They need to use Brock and Rock to get those guys stuck in the midcard or even wearing belts over.

    (edited by lotjx on 8.4.12 2015)


I don't know in what world Ziggler should be going over The Rock, but it's not this one.

I'd rather see Brock just wipe out upper mid-carders from both sides. He doesn't need allegiances so there's no need to slot him into heel or face category. The main issue with him being solely a heel is that there aren't enough credible mid-card faces to feed to him.




Comin' through!!!
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.18
    Originally posted by Lord of the Manor
      Originally posted by lotjx

      I think we can all see Rock laying down to Cena somewhere during his run. I even suspect Rock will probably lose to Punk, Ziggler and maybe another person. They can not give undefeated runs to Rock and Brock. It make all the every day guys look bad. They need to get other people over. They didn't need to get Cena over, because he is. That is why I was ok for Rock to go over. If it was Rock/Punk or Rock/Sheamus then no dice on Rock going over. They need to use Brock and Rock to get those guys stuck in the midcard or even wearing belts over.

      (edited by lotjx on 8.4.12 2015)


    I don't know in what world Ziggler should be going over The Rock, but it's not this one.

    I'd rather see Brock just wipe out upper mid-carders from both sides. He doesn't need allegiances so there's no need to slot him into heel or face category. The main issue with him being solely a heel is that there aren't enough credible mid-card faces to feed to him.


Rock put over Test and Hurricane, he could help put over Ziggler. I am not saying Dolph wins clean, but he could use the win. I'd rather not see the entire upper mid-card be feed to a part timer. I do agree there is not enough credible faces in the mid-card, most are comedy acts or getting buried by Cole on commentary they have to be comedy acts. They really need to start giving some wins to Ryder or turn Ziggler after Extreme Rules. Orton is the only other person, I would be hesitant to let Brock beat.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.











Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Oliver
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Since: 20.6.02
From: #YEG

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.02
I rewatched last week's RAW and caught the fan reaction...and if they want to book Brock as a monster heel, they're pitting him against the wrong guy. I think there were more people cheering him on after the F5 than booing him.

I was cheering him, for the record. Anyone else?



...on a roll!
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 34 days
Last activity: 3 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
    Originally posted by lotjx

    Rock put over Test and Hurricane, he could help put over Ziggler. I am not saying Dolph wins clean, but he could use the win.


So Ziggler beats The Rock, but doesn't beat him clean, therefore no one takes the win seriously and Ziggler is still seen as a guy who can't beat a guy like The Rock.

And nothing was gained by the win.
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 1 day
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by Lexus
    I would fantasy book Brock as the loveable chum of Santino, personally.


He could say things like "I fell on me noggin!"
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.18
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by lotjx

      Rock put over Test and Hurricane, he could help put over Ziggler. I am not saying Dolph wins clean, but he could use the win.


    So Ziggler beats The Rock, but doesn't beat him clean, therefore no one takes the win seriously and Ziggler is still seen as a guy who can't beat a guy like The Rock.

    And nothing was gained by the win.


You mean like Jericho, Kurt and almost everyone he ever faced including Austin.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.











Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
        Originally posted by lotjx

        Rock put over Test and Hurricane, he could help put over Ziggler. I am not saying Dolph wins clean, but he could use the win.


      So Ziggler beats The Rock, but doesn't beat him clean, therefore no one takes the win seriously and Ziggler is still seen as a guy who can't beat a guy like The Rock.

      And nothing was gained by the win.


    You mean like Jericho, Kurt and almost everyone he ever faced including Austin.


It's hard to compare Test and Hurricane to Jericho, Angle, or especially Austin. Ziggler definitely has potential to be huge; by far the best bump machine in WWE and solid on the stick. However, if you want him over big, don't feed guys like Lesnar or Rock to him, just get him away from Vicky and Swagger and let him do his own heel thing.

Re-establishing Brock is actually a good idea. Let's see him F5 Khali, or even squash Swagger in an NCAA Wrestler vs style thing. If you want him putting anyone over for a good rub that won't devalue him in the process, I'd go with Henry, Sheamus, or Orton. Henry is ready made as monster vs monster (and they're the only two men to break a ring using Big Show). Sheamus direly needs legitimacy following what has been a luke-warm face run, and Orton took Brock's honor of being youngest champion ever.

Seriously, what made everyone pull Dolph out of their ass in this fantasy-book-o-Rama?



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
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Interesting, but this from the Torch Newsletter: "Brian Gewirtz wasn't at the PPV or Raw this week because he was on vacation. The official line is that he put in for vacation long ago, and it seems as simple as that.
- geemoney, Gerwitz vs. Heyman (2003)
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