It's a pretty damning piece about how immigration policy is making the British pretty irrelevant in their own country and how nobody wants to violate the premise of political correctness by standing up to runaway immigration.
The same thing is happening here. Look forward to continue progams in a corner of American near you.
And look forward to the government stealing more of your hard earned money every week to pay for the poor immigrants that come to the US everyday. It's just lovely how tax dollars go to the health care of illegal immigrants with no insurance.
What the hell do they mean, “losing their country”? By coming to the UK and becoming naturalized, they thus become citizens, ya? I'm not happy about illegal immigration, but it seems as if this columnist is bashing multiculturalism in general. And multiculturalism can be a good thing-- indeed, one of the great things about America is that you can find most any kind of person here.
I feel if immigrants come to the US looking for better opportunities, have something to contribute and can speak English, by all means, let's welcome them in. Isn't that what it says on the Statue of Liberty, after all? “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free”?
So British white people are getting a little uncomfortable because of all the blacks, Hispanics and Asians? Oh, no, not that! We all know that everyone who isn't white must be evil. [/sarcasm]
Yes, crack down on illegal immigration. But don't bitch at the people who are here legitimately. What, you wish to send all the black people back to Africa? Ship off all the Hispanics back to Mexico and Central America so that the U.S. can simply be an all-white nation-state? Because that's just about what this argument amounts to, doesn't it?
I'm sorry, but the whole damn thing smacks of bigotry to me. Americans are Americans, whether they're European-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans or Hispanic-Americans. We all share the same love of freedom. We may differ on a few things, but when you come down to it, everyone is just another person trying to make his or her way in the world the best they can. How the hell can one say that Americans are losing their country when only American citizens have the right to vote in the first place?
Edit: And from reading that site, it looks to me like the people on there are obsessed with immigration, anyway. In fact, it seems they blame immigration for everything.
(edited by ekedolphin on 16.8.02 1038) “I can't believe it! I just got pinned by a freaking 12-year-old!”-- Kurt Angle talking about Rey Mysterio on WWE SmackDown!, 8/9/02
Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02
Just to let you know, The Times is aimed at 70 year old white moustasched men who wish we could go back to the days of the Empire when all the 'darkies' did was serve then drinks on there jaunts around the world.
My own opinion over here as a Brit - there isn't a problem. Besides, we owe some of the countries a lot after raping them for a couple of hundred years. I enjoy the diversity in this country.
And just in case anyone from Britain is reading this, I'm a Leeds fan as well! The mind boggles.
Ekedolphin, if you think The Times is bad, you should avoid The Sun and The Daily Mail.
(edited by A-MOL on 16.8.02 1543) ...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Originally posted by ekedolphinI feel if immigrants come to the US looking for better opportunities, have something to contribute and can speak English, by all means, let's welcome them in. Isn't that what it says on the Statue of Liberty, after all? “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free”?
(edited by ekedolphin on 16.8.02 1038)
Yes the site is all immigration all of the time. I just thought the piece was interesting to discuss...
The fact of the matter is that not all of the immigrants who come here are legal. Yet in many instances they apply for Social Security, get drivers licenses, attended taxpayer funded schools and become tax users without having to qualify as taypayers.
Not all of the immigrants that come here bother to speak English. The government has mandated that they do not have to. Such instance was the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which has language provisions protecting the rights of people to vote in a language other than English. Click Here. In California, you can vote in English or any one of SIX other languages. Click Here.
Nobody has a problem with legal immigration. But I do have a problem with those who chose to come to American and refuse to assimilate. We don't need to reeanct the Tower of Babel. Here is an anecdotal story about immigration and language.Click Here
Nobody likes illegal immigration. And I hate it worse when these lawbreakers are given perks and privileges and sometimes immunity by our government. It crowds and already crowded system and rewards bad behavior.
Originally posted by GrimisBut I do have a problem with those who chose to come to American and refuse to assimilate. We don't need to reeanct the Tower of Babel.
Why do they have to assimilate? Surely they can by a US citizen and speak the languages and follow the customs of there homeland. As an outsider, I always thought part of the spirit of the US was the way that they welcomed different cultures in to help form what is still relatively a young country.
Besides, most of you American's don't speak proper like. Plus, it's 'coloUr', people.
Oops, orginal post had that quote coming from ekedolphin. Sorry
(edited by A-MOL on 16.8.02 1605)
(edited by A-MOL on 16.8.02 1620) ...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Oh good god, I´m going to try to inject some rationality here.
First off, unlike Britain, Pretty much everyone here is an immigrant. These arguments about immigration have been used since the 1700´s. We´ve been losing our country and culture to the Germans, Scandanavians, Irish, Italians, Jews, Hispanics, Asians, and everyone else over the last 200 years or so. 100 years ago there were the same pieces on how we´re loosing our country to the unwashed hordes of Eastern Europe. But look at us now. I think we´re doing OK. Immigration is the reason America is the greatest country in the world. It´s the reason we don´t suck like Europe. We welcome people from all over the world, and tell them 'hey, you´re welcome to try and make it here, and make a better life for your kids.' This is the AMERICAN FREAKING DREAM. Britain can do whatever it wants with its country, I could care less. If they want to say immigrants are making them lose their country, so be it. But in order to be an American, it shouldn´t matter where you were born, or what your history was, or anything else. Please leave the idea that the only true citizens are the native-born who speak the language perfectly to the French.
My favorite line is that there are more immigrants now than in 1970. Jesus, this is an argument AGAINST immigration? You think we were better off in 1970? The 1990´s had the longest economic boom is history (I´ll even throw in the 80s and 90s for all you Reagan lovers out there). Gee, these also happen to be the two decades with the MOST immigration since the 1920s! Here´s the stats from FAIR US, an anti-immigrant group. Click Here
I´m sure that´s just a coincidence though. Not that I, who actually live among a wide variety of immigrants, and see most of them work inhumanly and jobs you and I (or at least I) wouldn´t touch to try and make a better life for their kids, would know anything about this. You should have seen places like Flushing, or East Flatbush, or Kensington (Queens, Brooklyn and Brooklyn respectively) before the immigrants started to move in in the 80s and 90s. These places sucked. They were dead. There was a borded up storefront for every open one. Now these places are bustling. The immigrants (Chinese/Korean, Carribean, and from all over the world respectively) completely revitalized them. You can walk down the street now. Stuff is open past 5:00 PM. They´ve given people a ton of jobs. They are the hardest working, best, and most driven entraprenuers (I have no idea how to spell that) in America, and have always been so. I though conservatives LIKED these kinds of people.
Click Here for an article by Steven Moore of the Cato Institute, hardly a bastion of liberal thought.
Also, here´s an article that says it better than I ever could: Click Here
And here is a good, concise FAQ about the economic impact of immigration by (of all places) the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, which I´m pretty sure isn´t an apologist liberal, commie athiest, America-Hating bunch of trial-lawyers.
As one Briton put it, “we resisted Hitler in order to become a colony for Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.” Good Lord, do I even have to point out the irony of this statement? Are you sure this isn´t an Onion piece?
The U.S. has done the British one better. We have become the world’s colony.
And the conservatives say the liberals hate America. What so you call this?
(edited by MoeGates on 16.8.02 1108) Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
For a country to be united, the people need to be able to communicate. That means speaking the same language. The non-british europeans (ie. non english speakers) who came to this country took the time to learn english and still managed to retain their culture (ex. italian-american community). i find it interesting that my personal ancestors were able to learn english and become a productive part of american society but third world immigrants can't? why can't non-european non-english speakers do the same? Why should we cater to several different languages in this country? How hard is it for the police to do their jobs when the people they are talking to don't understand a word? How many people can achieve great financial success or receive a good college education in the USA if they don't know english? Not stressing a policy of one language, English, seems to hold people down in my view.
Originally posted by Bizzle IzzleFor a country to be united, the people need to be able to communicate. That means speaking the same language. The non-british europeans (ie. non english speakers) who came to this country took the time to learn english and still managed to retain their culture (ex. italian-american community). i find it interesting that my personal ancestors were able to learn english and become a productive part of american society but third world immigrants can't? why can't non-european non-english speakers do the same? Why should we cater to several different languages in this country? How hard is it for the police to do their jobs when the people they are talking to don't understand a word? How many people can achieve great financial success or receive a good college education in the USA if they don't know english? Not stressing a policy of one language, English, seems to hold people down in my view.
I thought in a few years Spanish was going to take over as the dominant language in the US.
...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle thought in a few years Spanish was going to take over as the dominant language in the US.
Not sure if that's still the case, but a lot of that stems from 1) runaway illegal immigration on the border between the US and Mexico and 2) the fact that most immigrants are not forced to learn English.
The Federal Reserve piece is interesting, though I disagree about the costs. The costs will continue to rise if illegal immigration remains unchecked because many illegal immigrants remain poor and their children wind up not learning English, getting medical care or an education etc.
Legal immigration is fine. I am not opposed to this, merely putting the piece up to spark discussion about a topic that rarely has any discussion beyond this.
Rational person: I think we need to reform our response to illegal immigration.
Sheep: YOU BIGOTED RACIST YOU.
Illegal immigration is what needs to be stopped. There are so many illegal border crossings per day it'll make you sick. And that brings in criminals, drugs, weapons and possibly even terrorists.
Besides, every time we try to pass a law mandating English to be the official language, the courts strike it down. Of course nothing stopped Clinton from issuing Executive Order 13166
What we desperately need is a Constitutional amendment to make English the official language and end all of this silliness. Or else we have more insanity as in Maryland, which passed a law like this Click Here.
I think Hebrew, of all languages, was also almost made the official language of the U.S. back in the day.
The "Immigrants used to come here and learn English like my ancestors, and now they don´t and their kids don´t either and all they do is collect welfare and I don´t WANT to speak Spanish" arguement. Please. The last big wave of immigration was from 1880-1920. These immigrants weren´t completely integrated until the 1950s. That´s 70 years after it started, and 30 after it ended. This current wave of immigration began about 100 years later, in the early 80s. So give folks some time here, say at least until 2010, and probably more like 2030, which is about how much time your ancestors got. Your ancestors didn´t learn English in a week right after they got here either. They lived in ethic neighborhoods, speaking their native languages for a generation, and their kids all learned English and their grandkids were the ones that broke through and more or less assimilated. This is exactly what is happening now also. Kids of Immigrants don´t learn English? News to me. I volunteer with perhaps the most diverse group of children of Immigrants in the U.S., and if they were born here, they all speak English just like you or me.
In short, give the folks a couple generations and a little patience.
(edited by MoeGates on 17.8.02 1159) Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
First off, there is nothing inherently wrong with telling people "No, you can't come into this country." The tradition of generally free immigration was pretty much unique to America until the 20th century.
Obviously, there is something wrong with illegal immigration...otherwise it wouldn't be illegal. If you think we should just have completely open borders, you're insane. That jeopardizes national security, gives a free hand to smugglers, drug cartels, etc. A sovreign nation has a right to secure its borders. That's why sending armed combatants or spies across one is considered a hostile act.
As far as legal immigration goes, if they're willing to work like the rest of us, they're welcome here. I'd much rather have a hard-working immigrant here than some lazy white guy who descended from the pilgrims. In fact, if you're worried primarily about the size of the population, we could export a lazy citizen for every immigrant we get. "You're not pulling your weight around here, you're out!"
Language is another issue. A common language makes sense...that's not hard to see. The real troublemakers in this area are not the immigrants, however. The politicians and some of their more idiotic court appointees have made it illegal for the government not to accomodate whatever language a given person chooses to speak.
Don't worry, though. I'll straighten everything out once my plans for world conquest come to fruition. First stop: Antarctica. Unoccupied continent = easy conquest.
WyldeWolf1 The Man of 1,008 holds, making him 3 holds better than Chris Jericho!
Originally posted by eviljonhunt81You can't force anyone to learn a language in a country that has no official language.
yes, we have no official language, but in most schools, english is the only language taught to the kids (at least back in my day).
All Government documents are in english, road signs are in english....the list goes on
it's the "Un-official" offical language...
i remember years ago congress decided not to make an offical language...it was a total PC election year move.
"You can't fire a gun in a confined space! What are you tring to do, make us deaf?!" "Just get out of the chopper." "What?" "Get out of the chopper!" "The crops!?" - Jack Lemmon and James Garner, "My Fellow Americans", and the reason I say "The crops?" instead of "Huh?"
My thought is that this is basically the companies using their employees as human shields to protect themselves. Furthermore, the idea that you don't have to follow the law if it would hurt the economy too much to penalize you is troubling to me.