The W
Views: 101382600
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
18.12.14 0125
The W - Pro Wrestling - Bret Hart Fires Back (Page 5)
This thread has 76 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 5.46
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5
(6376 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (97 total)
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 18 days
AIM:  
#81 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.12
fuelinjected: And for the person who rated HBK above Steamboat as a worker? You're out of your mind. Steamboat was probably one the best babyface workers ever. Shawn worked better as a heel and couldn't exactly hang on the mat in that Ironman match.

That would be me. Everyone has their own opinion, but I think you may have answered your own question - Steamboat was no doubt a great babyface...but he never "worked heel". Throwing out all other plus or minuses for each side, HBK wins by default. To me, anyway.

Back to Bret Hart. While we are in a pissing contest about inaccuracies, Hart clarified a few things on his website...

original:...would be like me declaring that Flair showed great cowardice when he let Bobby Shane die in that tragic plane crash back in 75 !

correction: I meant to say that Johnny Valentine was paralyzed from the waist down in a plane crash with Ric Flair. Same meaning

That ain't even CLOSE to the same meaning! But, good cover when most comments about his column started off about how he was wrong on that. I like this one better...regarding the Boston "carried" match mentioned above

original:...few months later, when I found out Id be having a one hour marathon match at the Boston Garden with Ric, I came up with a brilliant storyline that I ran by Vince, who loved it. When I ran it by Flair in the dressing room the night of the show he immediately interrupted me and began telling me what we were going to do instead. I finally had to cut him off and sadly dress him down in front of several wrestlers saying, Ric, Im the champion and this is how its going to go. He dropped his jaw, turned red, and took his seat, saying, Youre the champ. He never, ever got over it either. Scott Hall was there and often told this story to other wrestlers for years.

Correction: Scott Hall was not in the dressing room in Boston, but it happened numerous times and he did witness it somewhere. All one would have to do is ask Scott Hall where it was. He told the story countless times. Unfortunately, I had to politely dress down Ric Flair three or four times.

Bret: "go ask Scott Hall! He'll back me up! His word is a good as GOLD!"

ha! good luck to anyone who takes Hart up on that one!

FLEA



Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...

FLEA - 1ryderfakin.com - THE IWC 100! And The Wrestling Dead Pool!!
SEADAWG
Boudin rouge
Moderator








Since: 5.7.03

Since last post: 688 days
Last activity: 13 days
#82 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.20
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    I don't know if you've ever interviewed people, especially over the span of years and years, but I have. You'll find that their attitudes and opinions change. People soften or people get old and bitter. In fact, what's rare is if someone holds the exact same opinions forevermore. That's because these opinions are shaped by their environment and whatever events are going on. That's why best friends turn on each other, people get divorced, Randy Savage started hating Hulk Hogan, etc. It doesn't mean that they're equivocating liars, as you're thundering, it just means that things change.

Of course people's opinions change over the years, like a couple getting divorced. To relate that to this discussion, we're not talking about somebody getting divorced. We're talking about someone who's BEEN divorced suddenly running up to his ex and saying "HOLD ON, I LOVE YOU AGAIN" because it suits him at the moment. Where is the confusion on this?
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#83 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.61
"That ain't even CLOSE to the same meaning!"

I think his meaning in using the plane crash was the hypothetical inappropriateness of bringing it up to knock Flair, as Ric did with Owen's death. It's a questionable point, and by hypothetically mentioning it he's still mentioning it, but I don't think death vs. paralysis really changes it one way or another. (Edit: Then again, an implied "leaving Bobby Shane to drown" is more accusatory than being on the plane with Valentine when he was paralyzed.)

(edited by JMShapiro on 14.7.04 1127)
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1485 days
Last activity: 393 days
#84 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by SEADAWG
    Of course people's opinions change over the years, like a couple getting divorced. To relate that to this discussion, we're not talking about somebody getting divorced. We're talking about someone who's BEEN divorced suddenly running up to his ex and saying "HOLD ON, I LOVE YOU AGAIN" because it suits him at the moment. Where is the confusion on this?


I think of it more like two guys in high school who think they're on okay terms, then one guy hears that the other's been talking about him. So he confronts him and says, "Dude, screw you for saying all that shit! At least I don't....(and then launches into a litany of the other guy's shortcomings)"

Is it high-schoolish? Yes. Is it hilarious that Scott Hall's good name, gravitas and long-term memory are being brought into the fray? Yes.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"If you want me to watch the shows, buy tickets when you come to town, buy t-shirts, and pay for a PPV every three days, you bet your ass I'm going to hard to impress. And when you give me stuff that blows and then tell me I don't get a vote on sharing that opinion, I'm going to tell you to go catch an STD." - Hogan's My Dad

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 12 hours
#85 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
As to the question of Hart's integrety in this case, let's look at the facts:

1) Hart said mean things about Flair
2) Hart took them back in the interest of continuing to work with Flair
3) Upon the release of Flair's book, Hart recanted that, and claims that he still feels the way he initially said he did

So, technically what we have here is Bret Hart was lying when he said that Flair was awesome and Hart didn't have any problems with him. But really, what we have here isn't so much a case of lying as it is a case of being polite and civil to a co-worker. If I think my boss or a co-worker is a real jackass, do I go around telling everyone else that? No, because I still have to go to work every day, and telling a lie (yes, technically a lie) makes it a little bit easier for everyone to do their jobs.


In case you can't tell, that's my way of saying I believe Hart's telling the truth with his recent comments. They are still OPINION, however, so his word isn't necessarily the end of it.

(edited by Tenken347 on 14.7.04 1341)
SEADAWG
Boudin rouge
Moderator








Since: 5.7.03

Since last post: 688 days
Last activity: 13 days
#86 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    So, technically what we have here is Bret Hart was lying when he said that Flair was awesome and Hart didn't have any problems with him. But really, what we have here isn't so much a case of lying as it is a case of being polite and civil to a co-worker.

When I quote the stuff Meltzer wrote about this, do I need to start using a bigger font? Where does it say anything about Bret taking it all back only because he had to be polite to Flair? If Bret only took it back to be nice when he and Flair worked together, why was he praising Flair on Meltzer's radio show as recently as a few months ago?

Let's also not forget the point Meltzer brought up about Bret admitting that his negativity about Flair wasn't because of Flair himself, but because Bret was tired of hearing about how Flair was the best. Whenever Bret has talked badly about Flair, it's because he's been pissed off about something. Really now, which seems more likely? That Bret talks a bunch of shit when he's mad, or that he really did think Ric Flair was a lousy wrestler, but then decided that he didn't, but now he's telling the truth again?

(edited by SEADAWG on 14.7.04 1727)
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#87 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.52
    Originally posted by chill
    It's really too bad that a lot of today's fans grew up after the Hart Foundation's initial tag team run with Jimmy Hart as their manager. For years leading up to that point, I had never seen any tag team be as hated as they were. They cheated non-stop, but Bret was such a masterful technician back then even that he gave the team instant credibility. He was small, but was so deadly in the ring that it seemed like he and Neidhart didn't NEED to cheat. Watching the Hart Foundation and British Bulldogs feud for months was a joy when I was growing up.


Well, then it is too bad that you never got to see the Ole and Gene version of the Minnesota Wrecking Crew, because they were more talented at breaking rules and maintaining a technical base than the Hart Foundation.

In fact, I would also put Tully and Arn over the Hart Foundation, in just about every aspect. They wrestled better as a team, they had better overall technical ability (mainly because the Anvil sucked), they could dominate a match with heel tactics, they could do it all, PLUS cut promos.

Or, for that matter the Hollywood Blondes.

When somebody said that Brad Armstrong couldnt connect with fans, remember, if they would have stuck him in the Hart Foundation in Bret's place, he would have been just as good, because he would not have had to speak, just like Bret didnt.



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2743 days
Last activity: 2743 days
#88 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.19
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Well, then it is too bad that you never got to see the Ole and Gene version of the Minnesota Wrecking Crew, because they were more talented at breaking rules and maintaining a technical base than the Hart Foundation.

    In fact, I would also put Tully and Arn over the Hart Foundation, in just about every aspect. They wrestled better as a team, they had better overall technical ability (mainly because the Anvil sucked), they could dominate a match with heel tactics, they could do it all, PLUS cut promos.

    Or, for that matter the Hollywood Blondes.

    When somebody said that Brad Armstrong couldnt connect with fans, remember, if they would have stuck him in the Hart Foundation in Bret's place, he would have been just as good, because he would not have had to speak, just like Bret didnt.


Huh? Where did I say that I hadn't seen the Minnesota Wrecking Crew? The only point I made there was how fun it was to watch the Hart Foundation at that time. Truth be told, I liked Tully & Arn and the Bulldogs a lot more than the Hart Foundation. I even wanted to bring up how much better I thought NWA's tag division was at the same time that Bret & Neidhart came into the WWF. But I didn't think it was relevant to mention, as I wasn't comparing the Hart Foundation to any other teams - past, present, or future. Sorry for expressing my opinion for liking the Hart Foundation's matches!
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1485 days
Last activity: 393 days
#89 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by chill
    Sorry for expressing my opinion for liking the Hart Foundation's matches!


Don't feel bad, you just inadvertently violated the unwritten rule that whatever you like, there was a MUCH better counterpart in the 1970's or 80's NWA. You probably didn't see it, but don't worry, someone will point it out. Cause it was MUCH better than anything you've ever seen.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"If you want me to watch the shows, buy tickets when you come to town, buy t-shirts, and pay for a PPV every three days, you bet your ass I'm going to hard to impress. And when you give me stuff that blows and then tell me I don't get a vote on sharing that opinion, I'm going to tell you to go catch an STD." - Hogan's My Dad

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 10 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#90 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.99
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Don't feel bad, you just inadvertently violated the unwritten rule that whatever you like, there was a MUCH better counterpart in the 1970's or 80's NWA. You probably didn't see it, but don't worry, someone will point it out. Cause it was MUCH better than anything you've ever seen.


You are overgeneralizing, but for the most part that is a 100% true statement. Of course the Hart Foundation and Bulldogs and Savage/Steamboat were awesome, but as a kid I couldn't wait for Saturdays at 10:00 when World Class Championship Wrestling was on, and when we got cable and I was able to watch NWA and UWF, it WAS better and more interesting and less-cartoony than the WWF.



To get ass, youve got to bring ass." -- Roy Jones Jr.

"Your input has been noted.
I hope you don't take it personally if I disregard it."
-- Guru Zim

"Speak English or face admin retribution." -- CRZ
Squishy
Medisterpoelse








Since: 14.7.04
From: Oregon

Since last post: 3808 days
Last activity: 3796 days
#91 Posted on
For what it's worth, Lance Storm's latest:

http://www.stormwrestling.com/071404.html

Interesting how his sole match with Ric parallels some of Bret's comments, although he clearly feels this must have been atypical.


--Squishy
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2743 days
Last activity: 2743 days
#92 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.19
For what it's worth, I agree that a lot of teams from the 70s and 80s were better than the Hart Foundation. That doesn't mean I have to like the (heel version) Hart Foundation's matches any less. I loved the slow build to Bret's WWF career, from the first time he started showing some character (Neidhart insisting on removing Bret's shades in an overly-dramatic way before each match, usually stalling once or twice in the process) to when he was World Champion and involved in the Canada-vs-USA feuds in 1996.

If somebody wants to start a tag team appreciation thread (I would, but I'm not sure if that is frowned upon like list threads are - and if it's okay, that'd be cool if a mod sent me a private message telling me so), I'd love to discuss all the tag teams who put the Hart Foundation to shame and/or who I adored watching (like all versions of the Midnight Express or Tully & Arn, for example). I just don't see why certain people would try to shout me down when I point out how much I liked a certain team for a couple years. Sheeesh.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#93 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.52
Sorry Chill, from reading your post it seemed you were one of the old WWF fans who may have never seen the good old days of the NWA. I didnt intend to shout you down, I was just offering some better combinations in the realm of technical based heels.

I loved the old Hart Foundation as well, but, just feel the three teams I mentioned were better.



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!
Tony Stewart
Pickled pork








Since: 6.6.04

Since last post: 2790 days
Last activity: 1399 days
#94 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.50
Bret mentioned this

    For shame that Ric Flair should take pot shots at Terry Funk, Mick
    Foley, Savage, me or anyone else.


Terry Funk? He took pot shots at Terry or is Bret blowing this out of context? I always thought Flair and Terry had respect for one another.
Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

Since last post: 3355 days
Last activity: 3348 days
#95 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by Tony Stewart
    Terry Funk? He took pot shots at Terry or is Bret blowing this out of context? I always thought Flair and Terry had respect for one another.

He may say something derogatory later, but about 80 pages in so far all he's said about Funk is that he was a hellraiser who ran around Ric's front yard buck naked trying to kill his dog while Flair was passed out in his own vomit in the kitchen (really funny story), and that Funk and Wahoo are the guys he adopted the chop from.



(edited by Barbwire Mike on 15.7.04 0535)


Lethalwrestling.com: If you don't read us, you're probably gay
Jay
Bauerwurst








Since: 27.3.04
From: St. Louis, Missouri

Since last post: 3407 days
Last activity: 3194 days
#96 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.22
I had a new response all ready, but have decided to replace it with this:

"I think it is safe to say that these two individuals have issues with each other and I think it's best we all make our own judgements on their work. If you enjoyed Flair's stuff, great and if you enjoy Bret's that's great too. If you are like me and enjoyed them both, all the better...I think quite probably they are both great workers, each with their own strengths and flaws. Like many things in wrestling it is all a matter of taste." -Lance Storm

Couldn't have said it better myself.



"Back in the old days of the Bash they had guys like Dean Malenko and Arn Anderson. But we got Sable and Torrie!" -Michael Cole continuing to prove he's an idiot (paraphrased due to me not having a copy of GAB 2004, nor will I ever)
Markme123
Polska kielbasa








Since: 7.1.02
From: San Jose, Cali

Since last post: 3782 days
Last activity: 3491 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#97 Posted on
NEWSFLASH!

Bret will apparently be on WOL July 25 if anyone's interested...
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5
Thread rated: 5.46
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5
Thread ahead: Questions about Macho vs. Dibiase feud of 1988
Next thread: WM XX - 4 months and 1 day later
Previous thread: Test out for a year
(6376 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Which one is Hulk and which one is Brooke again?
- John Orquiola, Hulk Hogan, on DefJam RapStar (2010)
The W - Pro Wrestling - Bret Hart Fires Back (Page 5)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.821 seconds.