Sec19Row53
Lap cheong
   
   
      
 
 
Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI
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|  #2 Posted on 22.11.11 1409.23 | Instant Rating: 5.25 |
Really? Show me where he was the best player:
Player Team Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Braun, R MIL LF 150 563 109 187 38 6 33 111 58 93 33 6 .332 .397 .597 .994
Kemp, M LAD CF 161 602 115 195 33 4 39 126 74 159 40 11 .324 .399 .586 .986
(edit to try to "table-ize" the data - { There you go - Ed. })
(edited by Sec19Row53 on 22.11.11 1416)
(edited by CRZ on 22.11.11 1453) | TheOldMan
Landjager
Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago
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| #3 Posted on 22.11.11 1425.10 | Instant Rating: 5.54 | Originally posted by Sec19Row53
Really? Show me where he (Kemp) was the best player:
Just off the top of my head, Kemp plays in Dodger Stadium, Braun in the launching pad that is Miller Park. And while Braun had Prince Fielder protecting him all year (and Pujols had Holliday and/or Berkman), Kemp had.. the rest of the Dodger lineup. Loney? Ethier??
Braun gets the nod because the Brewers were a playoff team. If the Dodgers were in and the Crew not, I'm sure Kemp would have won. But that's the deal with the people who vote for this award.
 | TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan
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| #4 Posted on 22.11.11 1433.27 | Instant Rating: 7.00 | Kemp had a better OPS+ (which adjusts for ballpark, as TheOldMan alluded to) and a sizable lead in WAR. And while neither is going to be mistaken for Ozzie Smith, a quick glance at defensive metrics suggests that Kemp was slightly better than the average NL player in the field this year, whereas Braun according to some metrics is actually a defensive liability, slightly below average.
I agree that it comes down to the fact that the Dodgers didn't make the playoffs. | BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple
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| #5 Posted on 22.11.11 1450.02 | Instant Rating: 6.67 | There's no way a Dodger should win the Cy Young and MVP. That's what does him in in my book.
| Sec19Row53
Lap cheong
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From: Oconomowoc, WI
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| #6 Posted on 22.11.11 1503.55 | Instant Rating: 5.25 | Originally posted by TheOldMan
Originally posted by Sec19Row53
Really? Show me where he (Kemp) was the best player:
Just off the top of my head, Kemp plays in Dodger Stadium, Braun in the launching pad that is Miller Park. And while Braun had Prince Fielder protecting him all year (and Pujols had Holliday and/or Berkman), Kemp had.. the rest of the Dodger lineup. Loney? Ethier??
Braun gets the nod because the Brewers were a playoff team. If the Dodgers were in and the Crew not, I'm sure Kemp would have won. But that's the deal with the people who vote for this award.
OK. I did the cursory glance at the stats to see if I could see it, but didn't. I'll buy those arguments.
RE: Braun's defense - there's no way he's an average defensive outfielder. He's TOTALLY a liability. He takes awful routes to balls. | Big Bad
Scrapple
Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario
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|  #7 Posted on 22.11.11 1903.27 | Instant Rating: 6.42 | Surprising pick, given that I thought Braun and Fielder would split the Milwaukee vote. Kemp was the best player in the NL this year and should've won by that standard, but Braun is hardly a terrible choice.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball | supersalvadoran
Landjager
Since: 10.1.08
From: westbury, new york
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| #8 Posted on 23.11.11 0358.32 | Instant Rating: 4.00 | And people were getting pissing about the Al MVP vote. Fielder was the MVP of his team, not Braun. Even worse is the fact that Pujols was only fifth and without a single 1st place vote. When you consider how he helped the Cardinals in their improbable comeback to the playoffs and he did it with a broken hand that should had kept him out of play much longer than it did, I say he deserves more merit as a MVP player. And I know many will point out that he had a 'below- average' season for him. I would counter that he still was in the top 10 in several batting categories and that if he had a full, healthy season, he would had likely led in some of those stats (runs, home runs, slugging, etc.). At the very least, It should had been Kemp,Fielder,Pujols. Braun at best was only the fourth most valuable player in the NL.
| Mr. Boffo
Scrapple
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From: Oshkosh, WI
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| #9 Posted on 23.11.11 0531.23 | Instant Rating: 7.28 | Originally posted by supersalvadoran
And people were getting pissing about the Al MVP vote. Fielder was the MVP of his team, not Braun.
I'm not sure why you'd think that. At best the two are about even in every category, with Braun having a higher batting average and also being a stolen base threat (I should know; him, Kemp, and Granderson were the stars of my roto baseball league). Fielder's one advantage is being a more patient hitter. He had 107 walks (plus 32 more intention walks), while Braun only had 58. Braun may be a poor defensive outfielder, but Fielder is a poor defensive first baseman (which is an easier position to play).
In WAR (fangraphs style), it's 7.8 for Braun, 5.5 for Fielder. | Big Bad
Scrapple
Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario
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| #10 Posted on 23.11.11 0800.45 | Instant Rating: 6.42 | Re: the difference between Braun and Fielder's walks. Don't forget that Braun hit 3rd and Fielder his 4th, so pitchers couldn't afford to pitch around Braun at all while they could be more careful with Prince in order to pitch to the Brewers' #5 hitter.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball |
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