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24.10.14 2327
The W - Football - Bountygate
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Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

Saints defense had 'bounty' fund (espn.go.com)


    Between 22 and 27 defensive players on the New Orleans Saints, as well as defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, maintained a "bounty" program funded primarily by players in violation of NFL rules during the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons, the NFL announced Friday.

    The investigation by the league's security department determined that an improper "pay for performance" program included "bounty" payments to players for inflicting injuries on opposing players that would result in them being removed from a game.

    In some cases, the amounts pledged were both significant and directed against a specific opposing player, according to the league's investigation.

    Saints general manager Mickey Loomis failed to stop the bounty program when directed to do so by team owner Tom Benson, while coach Sean Payton was aware of the allegations but did not pursue them or take steps to stop the "bounty" program, according to the investigation's findings.

    The findings, corroborated by multiple independent sources, have been presented to commissioner Roger Goodell, who will determine the appropriate discipline.

We've known for a while that the NFL front office has been discouraging this type of behavior, but the fact that key members of the Saints coaching staff and the front office were aware of this and did nothing is what's going to get the hammer laid down on them hard, and deservedly so. Cracking down on shit like this will play a bigger part in improving the safety of the game in the long run than killing the kickoff return.

I don't see how the league can discipline individual players unless actual records were kept of how much was being contributed (and by whom) and who was collecting, so I'd guess a hefty fine to the franchise and to Loomis, and both fines and suspensions to Williams (even though he's now with the Rams), Payton, and whoever else the NFL can prove was either involved or turned the cheek. (And if I'm Tom Benson, I'm firing Loomis today.) Maybe the team loses a draft pick too.

(edited by Texas Kelly on 2.3.12 1741)


e-mail me at texas (dot) kelly (at) gmailread a bunch of incoherent nonsense
now 52% more incoherent!
smark/net attack Advisory System is Elevatedsmark/net attack Advisory System Status is: Elevated
(Holds; June 18, 2006)
While the switch from Cena to RVD should alleviate some complaints, the inevitability of the belt's return to Cena (note where Summerslam is this year) and the poor initial showing by the new ECW are enough to keep the indicator where it is for now. The pieces are in place, though, especially on RAW, for improvements to be made to the IWC's psyche in the near future.
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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 129 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03

Buddy Ryan says, "been there, done that, 20 years ago."



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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
What a bunch of morons. If the owner knew about it, and didn't make sure it was stopped, they should be punished as harshly as legal by the rules of the NFL. I'd love to see them lose draft picks.
LennyAaronRoxx
Cotechino








Since: 26.1.02
From: Bradenton, Florida

Since last post: 471 days
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#4 Posted on
According to some reports, Vilma put a whole slew on money into the pot himself.



Whassupwitdat?
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 46 days
Last activity: 2 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    What a bunch of morons. If the owner knew about it, and didn't make sure it was stopped, they should be punished as harshly as legal by the rules of the NFL. I'd love to see them lose draft picks.
Agreed. I think a not unreasonable case can be made that this is worse than the Patriots taping signals. Both are trying to win games by breaking rules, but only one tries to do it by injuring the other lot.

Hope they get absolutely hammered for it.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.74
Mike Florio from PFT thought Goodell could be 'creative' by taking away the Saints' franchise tag for this season since they don't have a first round draft pick. Losing the franchise tag would cost the Saints the ability to tag either Brees or Carl Nicks, and force them to work out long-term contracts with at least one of them. Given some of the oddly difficult chatter about Brees' contract already, it would at least raise the possibility that he leaves, though I'm sure he'll remain in New Orleans at one price or another.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.98
I guess they forgot to use the bounty system in their road playoff games?
And now, a dissenting opinion in favor of bounties:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR2TybQDVUE
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    Buddy Ryan says, "been there, done that, 20 years ago."


I have a feeling there were a slew of coaches that would say the same about stealing signals too.

What is amazing is how long this stuff can stay on the down low, especially these days.

Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Mike Florio from PFT thought Goodell could be 'creative' by taking away the Saints' franchise tag for this season since they don't have a first round draft pick. Losing the franchise tag would cost the Saints the ability to tag either Brees or Carl Nicks, and force them to work out long-term contracts with at least one of them. Given some of the oddly difficult chatter about Brees' contract already, it would at least raise the possibility that he leaves, though I'm sure he'll remain in New Orleans at one price or another.

Doubt that will be an option. It's already been stated elsewhere that it's going to take a while for the NFL to determine the punishment, and with the franchise tag deadline being this Monday it would be nigh-o impossible for Goodell to revoke the tag after the fact. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Saints forfeit a pick this year and a pick next year, given that they don't have a #1 this year.



e-mail me at texas (dot) kelly (at) gmailread a bunch of incoherent nonsense
now 52% more incoherent!
smark/net attack Advisory System is Elevatedsmark/net attack Advisory System Status is: Elevated
(Holds; June 18, 2006)
While the switch from Cena to RVD should alleviate some complaints, the inevitability of the belt's return to Cena (note where Summerslam is this year) and the poor initial showing by the new ECW are enough to keep the indicator where it is for now. The pieces are in place, though, especially on RAW, for improvements to be made to the IWC's psyche in the near future.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
      Originally posted by Big Bad
      Mike Florio from PFT thought Goodell could be 'creative' by taking away the Saints' franchise tag for this season since they don't have a first round draft pick. Losing the franchise tag would cost the Saints the ability to tag either Brees or Carl Nicks, and force them to work out long-term contracts with at least one of them. Given some of the oddly difficult chatter about Brees' contract already, it would at least raise the possibility that he leaves, though I'm sure he'll remain in New Orleans at one price or another.

    Doubt that will be an option. It's already been stated elsewhere that it's going to take a while for the NFL to determine the punishment, and with the franchise tag deadline being this Monday it would be nigh-o impossible for Goodell to revoke the tag after the fact.
Right. Also, I don't like the idea of tailored punishments versus punishments that set precedent for future punishments.

Like, what if both the Saints and the Browns got caught doing this? How dumb would it be if the punishments were either:
a) both teams lose their franchise tag. Too bad, Cleveland, you don't get to keep Phil Dawson!
or
b) the Saints lose their franchise tag, Cleveland loses a first round pick.

It's better for the punishment to be something applicable to all teams, *and* common to all teams, like draft picks, suspensions, and cash fines.



The Big Bossman raised the briefcase.

Go Pack Go! Owner of one (1) share.
Let's Go Riders! Owner of one (1) share.
BOSsportsfan34
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Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.21
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by odessasteps

      Buddy Ryan says, "been there, done that, 20 years ago."


    I have a feeling there were a slew of coaches that would say the same about stealing signals too.




Yep. And now with the Saints, much like the Pats with Spygate, other teams might have been doing the same thing but they were the ones who got caught. There are a couple other issues that arise with this...

1. If there was money paid to players on bounties then it's a violation of the salary cap and the CBA. Money paid to players must be in their official contract, which is used to count towards the teams cap number. The Broncos and Niners in the late 90's/early 00's had draft picks taken away when they were found trying to circumvent the salary cap.

2. Their is already several lawsuits brought against the NFL by former players from concussions and other career ending injuries. I think you can expect a lot more of these now in the near future.



"John McCain ran for president in 2000. Why couldn't we have elected him then? When he was sane." - Lewis Black
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 4 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Andy now Tony Dungy thinks the bounties are the reason Peyton Manning's neck is jacked up.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/dungy-gregg-williams-redskins-may-started-peyton-manning-163634407.html
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Not really on point, but I love how "gate" gets thrown on the end of everything shady.
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 2 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.58
Wilbon on PTI noted that the Saints probably aren't the only team to do this, they're just the first ones to get caught.

To add to that point, you can now add the Redskins to the Bountygate list.

    The NFL will investigate claims that the Washington Redskins had a bounty program when Gregg Williams was the team's defensive coordinator, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

    The NFL on Friday said an investigation by its security department found that Williams and several New Orleans Saints players employed an illegal bounty system, financially rewarding defensive players for big plays, including knocking opponents out of games during the 2009-11 seasons. After details of the NFL's probe were released, five former Redskins, including defensive end Phillip Daniels, and a former coach told The Washington Post that Williams had a similar system with Washington.


At this point, wouldn't it be easier to blackball Williams from the sport rather than penalize every single team he worked for?

(edited by It's False on 4.3.12 1307)

Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.74
Yeah, it seems Williams will end up as the ultimate fall guy for this. It's interesting that the Saints are seemingly standing by Loomis, perhaps because they see having a Super Bowl-winning GM as more important than the issue of having a bounty.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
    Originally posted by It's False
    At this point, wouldn't it be easier to blackball Williams from the sport rather than penalize every single team he worked for?


It would be worth it solely to see Gregg Easterbrook's hysterical crying jag. Given his penchant for nicknames, would he refer to Williams as "the tastefully-named martyr NEVER FORGET GREGG"?





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BOSsportsfan34
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Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.21


I believe this is it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBxHse5s74



"John McCain ran for president in 2000. Why couldn't we have elected him then? When he was sane." - Lewis Black
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 46 days
Last activity: 2 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
    Originally posted by It's False
    At this point, wouldn't it be easier to blackball Williams from the sport rather than penalize every single team he worked for?
Easier, yes. Right, no.
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 3 days
Y!:
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.82
    Originally posted by drjayphd
      Originally posted by It's False
      At this point, wouldn't it be easier to blackball Williams from the sport rather than penalize every single team he worked for?


    It would be worth it solely to see Gregg Easterbrook's hysterical crying jag. Given his penchant for nicknames, would he refer to Williams as "the tastefully-named martyr NEVER FORGET GREGG"?


When he returned to ESPN I got to the point where I tried to continue only reading the "football parts" of Eaterbrook's "Tuesday Morning Quarterback" and finally had to give up even that, but I have no doubt your point is spot on for how he would handle it.



"You are going to get a certain amount of snarkiness on the Internet no matter what, and my rule is that you don't post anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face."
Marc Andreyko (Writer of DC Comic's "Manhunter")
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 2 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.58
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    It would be worth it solely to see Gregg Easterbrook's hysterical crying jag. Given his penchant for nicknames, would he refer to Williams as "the tastefully-named martyr NEVER FORGET GREGG"?


Well...
    Originally posted by Gregg Easterbrook
    Gregg Williams has a classy first name

That's the only worthwhile thing you'll see from Gregg Easterbrook here.

I'm happy Deadspin exists to tear guys like this a new one.




"We need to go derper!"
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That's technically true, but Favre was only calling that time out because he saw that there were too many guys in the huddle. I know it's the cool thing to rag on Favre, but I feel horrible for the guy.
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