I made the post you're talking about. I think he's a good wrestler, but not near the level that most internet writers seem to agree on. I think there are many more entertaining wrestlers on the WWE roster, so why do so many want him as a top babyface? Maybe I just don't "get it".
What caught me by surprise was the fact that some writers are saying Goldust should be thanking his lucky stars to be paired with Booker. To me, Goldust has been doing the more entertaining, I-don't-want-to-miss-this bits.
Actually, Booker was plenty over long before the delayed "SUCKAAAAAAAA!" Just because his push didn't match it, doesn't mean he wasn't over. I personally don't think he's as good a wrestler as many Internet folk seem to think, but he's perfectly adequate even up to the main-event level, and his charisma and promo skills more than make up for any shortcomings.
By the way, I never liked Booker in WCW (as a singles competitor, I mean. I always liked Harlem Heat). The reason he's great now is that he's sort of a parody of himself then. He's postmodern -- much like the Rock is postmodern -- and that's what makes him so entertaining. In WCW, we were legitimately supposed to cheer for the spinaroonie, a patently ridiculous non-move. Then, in the WWF, we were supposed to hate him for thinking the spinaroonie was something we'd cheer for. Now, in WWE (heh -- you like that little trick?), we're supposed to cheer for the spinaroonie because he's aware of its ridiculousness and is in on the joke with us.
"The Giant?! The Giant! No! No! No! No! Can't be! Naaaaaaaaaaaah!"
They need each other. I don't think Booker would be as over without Goldust, and I don't think this gimmick with Goldust would've worked playing off of anyone but Booker T. It's the Rock N Sock Connection!
"It's a sad day when mocking one's opponent via midget becomes an acceptable form of entertainment." --Lance Storm
I was always a big Booker/Harlem Heat fan back in the day... I remember their feuds with the Steiners and the Outsiders...and then the break-up and Booker's famous Best of Seven feud with Chris Benoit (which is the moment both guys became stars to me). But it wasn't until the Booker Man came to the WWF that everyone was singing his praises...as the FIVE TIME WCW WORLD CHAMPION, now can you dig that... .. .. .. .. .. SUCKA??? .. .. See? It's fun to shout "Sucka" at people. I do it at work all the time! Booker is fun, and has a fun catchphrase...so, he's over. Overness is usually tied to a cool catchphrase or gimmick. Booker has his, Goldust has his, the Big Show doesn't...so, the Show isn't over. Now, can you dig that?
Bart: Hey, immigrants! Beat it! Country's full! Sailor: OK people, you heard the lady. Back into the hold. We'll try Canada. [the immigrants moan] -- "The City of New York Vs. Homer Simpson"
"That's what the Internet is for, slandering others anonymously" Banky Edwards (Jason Lee) in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back
Originally posted by Freeway420I was always a big Booker/Harlem Heat fan back in the day... I remember their feuds with the Steiners and the Outsiders...and then the break-up and Booker's famous Best of Seven feud with Chris Benoit (which is the moment both guys became stars to me).
I too liked Harlem Heat, even more than the face Sting/Luger team. And also liked him as a singles wrestler. And I will agree his best of seven was his break out point. But Benoit, I think the Sullivan and Raven feuds did more for him as far as becoming a star. But anyway, I think Booker is a pretty good wrestler, I wouldnt' say he's one of the best. But hey, I can like Benoit, Eddy, Helms, Jericho and all those other good wrestlers and still like Booker's wrestling abilites too. It's not like we have a limit on how many we can like. So I HAVE always been a fan of him.
BUT at the same time, people used to say how held back he was in WCW, and that when he finally won his first WCW Title that it was due, blah blah blah. Well that's just ridiculous. He won the tag titles atleast 10 times and he won the TV titles 6 times. I think that is the most titles a "held back" wrestler has ever won. And second of all, even though I love Booker, I don't think he's really top title material. The only reason he won the Title was because Jarrett, Goldberg, and Steiner were the only ones around. And out of those four Jarrett is the only one I would want with my World Title.
Originally posted by Freeway420Booker has his, Goldust has his, the Big Show doesn't...so, the Show isn't over. Now, can you dig that?
When the Big Show debuted, his catchphrase was "And that's the last word". I guess since that opened it up to smartass comebacks like "cuz Jim Rome said so" or "thanks be to God", they dropped the tagline. Maybe he could go back to saying, "AHHHHHHHHHHH THE CHOKESLAM!"
Booker T is NOT a *great* wrestler, but you don't have to be to be a WWE main eventer. You have to have charisma, be able to tell a story in the ring, and at least be able to either a) look passable by yourself or b) be carried by someone else.
Look at the main eventers (one GLARING exception) Triple H: Used to be A, now he's B Taker: He's B (thus, HHH-Taker...bad idea) Rock: A Jericho: A Angle: A Hogan: Well...Hogan's Hogan, he's over, period.
Booker probably falls into the B category, but hey, if he's wrestling Angle, Jericho, Rock, or the up-and-coming Edge or Rob Van Dam, you're gonna get a good match. If he's wrestling Hogan, HHH, or Taker, it's probably gonna be bad. Not everyone is a techincal marvel, not everyone has to be, you've just got to be able to find the right guy to mesh with. Booker-Angle had some really good matches last fall and if Angle ever gets his hands on the gold again, they could have some damn good PPV matches. I remember Booker-Jericho being good a couple times, Rock-Booker was always good, if predictiable and Shane-laden. All and all, I guess my point is there is no reason Booker T couldn't be a WWE Main Eventer...and that Book End to Vince is coming soon, always a key step to cementing yourself as a main eventer.
Now, as for Goldust, this guy gets big laughs, seems to be entering comedic gold (no pun intended) range, and yet, whenever he comes out, he never gets over. I don't get it. Goldust can still go, he's probably as good, if not better, than Booker in the ring, and to be honest, the NEW Goldust character is classic, maybe the funniest guy since Rock in his promo prime. I don't get why he's not more over. I doubt Dustin Rhodes doing the exact same stuff would help either. I just don't get it...actually, I guess it could be the fact that Goldust never seems to win.
HOLLY: How do you like me now? COLE: You're a jerk Holly! ME: (sigh) Cole ruins everything!
I think it's also the fact that they seriously scaled down the homoerotic part of Goldust. He no longer wears thong or pantyhose. He doesn't kiss men anymore. Plus he understands that the *inhale* deep voice is a good gimmick that can be played off of. I don't know what to compare it too, it's kind of like when The Rock returned last July and lost his abrasiveness towards everybody. He realized that he talks in the third person all the time. He still did it, but you could see a whole new side to him.
I guess I'm saying that in Goldust's last run, he was a simple gimmick character, but this time, a lot more of Dustin is coming through.
I guess for me it comes down to this: he doesn't really entertain me. Yes, I'd rather have him on my screen than X-Pac-Sucks, but that's not saying much. The only matches of his in WCW I liked were the Chris Benoit matches, but hey, Chris Benoit can make Mideon look good in the ring.
As for his championships? I never liked WCW's tag team division. I think that smaller ring made anything more than one on one look like a clusterf**k to me. As for his World titles: he got the belt AFTER Arquette; it was a useless piece of metal by then.
Having said that (look at me, I'm RICK F'N SCAIA), I think he's good at what he does. He just doesn't click with me. I never thought he had a very good character, though that's probably more in the writing. Still, I'm not going to go nuts over a guy who could potentially be a big deal.
I just find it annoying that people keep lumping him with HHH, Jericho, Angle, etc: guys that not only have potential, they have delivered top-tier stuff.
WyldeWolf1 The Man of 1,007 holds, making him 3 holds better than Chris Jericho!
Originally posted by Tod deKindesHe shows up, the crowd pops.
What more do you need?
There you go - EXACTLY my point on Austin a few weeks ago (pre-freakout). If the guy is popping the audience; if he's selling the shirts (and I know NOTHING about who isselling what, so let's not call me on that one); if people are showing up with signs that say
Now can you dig That?!?
This is the greatest post in the history of all great posts.
A question for Mr. Zenk (not that he's reading this, but still....) You're a former bodybuilder and it wasn't like you were a skinny guy during your WCW run. So how does your `warchest' compare with Luger's?